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[dev1152] Item Levels / Equipment Help Text
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13
By Siren.Aerolite 2013-06-14 13:04:25
Carbuncle.Darktrance said: »Not that uncommon a thing. For the short time I played DCUO, they had item levels of equipment. There was some content that was restricted to certain gear levels too. Like, you couldn't do this Raid unless your gear level was 60, etc. Not sure that's where this is going. Maybe to keep players from bringing a lv 1 character into Voidwatch to leech exp. I'm surprised people aren't charging for that already 2-4 well geared people pick a easy to kill vw nm then party up with lower levels and kill nm for xp rewards for a price. It could be like 10-25k xp give or take every few mins. Edit: Plus curor and any random chest rewards they might get.
Pretty sure you have to be lvl90 to participate in VW, so no, that wouldn't work. You have to be level 75 to do VW. I got my WHM from lvl 75 to lvl 99 doing Celaeno shouts.
 Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2013-06-14 13:07:20
Incoming 22% haste PUG players with lvl 120 gear thinking they are doing it right.
 Ragnarok.Alahra
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 296
By Ragnarok.Alahra 2013-06-14 13:10:29
if this ends up turning the game into strictly better gear progression, then I'm out
Hasn't it been that way since even before Abyssea came out? I'm not sure what the difference between then and now is. Can you explain that to me?
I believe what he's referring to is that gear progression is becoming more "vertical" in the game. Previously, it was more "horizontal," with "progression" consisting primarily of sidegrades from a wide variety of events.
Looking forward based on Matsui's comments and their addition of item level, we can likely expect that there will be items beyond level 120 (which is the current maximum, seen on items from Delve fracture bosses). If this is the case, the game will likely focus around acquiring gear, then acquiring the next highest item level of gear, dropping the old gear, and repeat.
While there has always been a subtle system of vertical progression in the game, vertical upgrades were often minor, allowing for a variety of gear sets being roughly viable for various content. As the new vertical progression settles into place and there is more appropriate gear of high item level available, we'll potentially see content become more "gated" than it already is, requiring full gearsets from one group of content to do the next group of content, and so on.
Since it's a pretty big shift in the way the game's item progression has been organized in the past, it remains to be seen how well they can pull that off and if it will really stick, given that gear-swaps are a bit of a wrench in the system (though not a huge one, in the end, I think).
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-06-14 13:10:37
Is the sky falling yet?
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 373
By Asura.Aikchan 2013-06-14 13:39:50
| 06-14-2013 04:04 AM | | Gildrein | | Community Rep |  |
| | [dev1152] Equipment Help Text
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Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 13:50:55
Jesus Pleebo that's *** horrifying.
 Valefor.Sapphire
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1828
By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-06-14 15:28:37
if this ends up turning the game into strictly better gear progression, then I'm out
Hasn't it been that way since even before Abyssea came out? I'm not sure what the difference between then and now is. Can you explain that to me?
AF1+1, aug'd AF2+2 + abyssea af3 is still useful for macro/JA pieces and is still worth pursuing/keeping for that reason. Pieces like that in particular represent useful horizontal gear progression. Putting time into those doesn't feel wasted and situationaly improves your job (af2+2 hands for sam, af3 hands for cor, etc).
Those kind of items are what makes ffxi really cool, this new gear that just has more str/atk/whatever with bigger numbers isnt particularly exciting to chase after.
And the new gear is even more boring to plasm/lixir grind for with the nagging feeling it may be rendered obsolete with this new gear progression paradigm they seem to be pushing.
By Alkaseltzer 2013-06-14 15:31:57
I dont understand this can someone explain why the item level and required level are different? It's what the level would be if we had a cap above 99. It's there to show the gap from previous equipment...it's not needed by any means, not sure why they care to show it, maybe to make us better understand where they're going with releases.
So basically this is a completely meaningless thing they took time to implement with completely arbitrary numbers. Yet they keep saying they don't have time or man power to do updates and changes that are actually needed.
Well it isn't meaningless since this means people can easily eyeball equipment to see if it a better level equipment or not. And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-14 15:35:49
And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment. Instead of displaying something no one cares about, they could show us much more useful things like accuracy, ranged attack, and so on? Seriously, this is so pointless.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:39:02
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters?
By Heimdel 2013-06-14 15:43:02
I dont understand this can someone explain why the item level and required level are different? It's what the level would be if we had a cap above 99. It's there to show the gap from previous equipment...it's not needed by any means, not sure why they care to show it, maybe to make us better understand where they're going with releases.
So basically this is a completely meaningless thing they took time to implement with completely arbitrary numbers. Yet they keep saying they don't have time or man power to do updates and changes that are actually needed.
Well it isn't meaningless since this means people can easily eyeball equipment to see if it a better level equipment or not. And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment.
So how does a random number tell people if a piece of gear is or isn't better than the gear they already got than the actual stats do? So going by this thinking what would something like black belt at level 70 or defending ring count as?
By Kalila 2013-06-14 15:43:53
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters? Basically the stats on the item are scaled to that level? That's what I get out of it.
/shrug
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 15:45:25
And this doesn't really take much any time at all to implement or any serious manpower since it just means editing some help text to show the numbers they've already been using for the equipment. Instead of displaying something no one cares about, they could show us much more useful things like accuracy, ranged attack, and so on? Seriously, this is so pointless.
That info is not already sent to the client, so it's a lot more complex than altering the item help text, which is already sent to the client.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:46:11
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters? Basically the stats on the item are scaled to that level? That's what I get out of it.
/shrug
They're arbitrarily scaled though aren't they? I mean, the Yolotl Helm would be the Yolotl Helm without the <Item Level: 9001> right?
By Alpheus 2013-06-14 15:47:22
So maybe I'm just ignorant and old-fashioned in the way things are done in FFXI, but what's the point of this "Item Level" thing? Isn't it the stats on the item that matters? Since they're sticking with the lvl cap of 99 there is now a ton of lvl 99 gear so they wanted to further differentiate pieces of gear (w/o the use of the required lvl to equip it which is what has been used up till now). Though frankly I'd prefer they say *** it and uncap the damn game but they can't because reasons.
 Fenrir.Deno
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Fenrir.Deno 2013-06-14 15:48:38
At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:51:46
At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x
So this is literally just a Scouter effect.
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By Kalila 2013-06-14 15:52:22
At least we can see the item level on updated R/E/M and the delve boss weapons, see how they actually wanted them to compare... Or something I dunno, so pointless x,x
So this is literally just a Scouter effect. 
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 15:56:13
So then I guess the only thing left to say is:
Inb4 /SH <Delve> NM <party> <Do You Need It?> Required PWR: 1666
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By Heimdel 2013-06-14 16:04:12
So then I guess the only thing left to say is:
Inb4 /SH <Delve> NM <party> <Do You Need It?> Required PWR: 1666
I still want to know where things like black belt and defending ring would fall under this. Both being very old content gear but still beats most anything in there catagory at 99.
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-14 16:07:02
lol @ people who said we werent going to be on an item level system We didn't say they wouldn't, we said that it'd be difficult to make an accurate one.
Proof in the OP, the ilvl of either item means jackshit due to the different uses.
The point stands.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 16:09:46
The item level is supposed to be representative of the difficulty level of the content one has to conquer to obtain it, not necessarily the "level" of the item.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 16:13:19
The item level is supposed to be representative of the difficulty level of the content one has to conquer to obtain it, not necessarily the "level" of the item.
Doesn't the example SE provides put the lie to that claim though? To me it just seems like a lazy way of gauging "Equip strength" without actually having to know the game.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-14 16:14:14
No?
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-14 16:18:57
I just remember reading an SE developer post about how they aren't boosting the level cap anymore, but new gear can be thought of as "For Level xxx", reflecting the perceived power of the equipment.
It's convenient that Difficult-to-obtain-items and strong items tend to go hand-in-hand, so there's no way I can disprove it, especially not having played the game in so long.
By Enuyasha 2013-06-14 16:20:51
People flipping their ***cause the developers are just telling us the Level of the content the item comes from as justification to why the stats are like that :<
Its actually kind of great...until you start wondering "then why are the stats so ***?"(-stats,unreasonably useless stats on some,but ungodly amazing stats on others).
Im sure the neo-elitists of our time will use ilevel totals as a way to bar people from events, but the old elitists will know that little <number> in the corner of your equipment has nothing to do with how well you are geared.
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-14 16:26:10
I just don't get it:
- I need the game to tell me that the item is 119 even though I know it drops from the hardest stuff that is lv 119 according to their ladder.
- The current ilvl means nothing due to how FFXI is.
I fail to see the point. I remember seeing a certain point to it a few months ago when we talked about it but the way they are implementing it, it looks useless and like a big waste of time.
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By Arziet 2013-06-14 16:27:03
Could not agree with you more.
In TERA Online, this system is very similar and very tied into whatever you did in terms of endgame content in the game. The item levels of your equipment were required to meet the minimum level set by each dungeon, especially if you wanted to do Hard Mode (HM) versions of some of the higher level dungeons. It also separated the under-equipped and well-equipped players from each other. In a way, you could say that Item Level made players judge whether you were a good player not only on skill but by what gear you had.
In other words, if it wasn't a glowing weapon and high item level armor, you ain't getting invited.
So, this would be a double-edge sword for FFXI:
Bad idea: Gear before skill determined whether you got invited or not.
Good idea & bad idea: Good because having the highest Item Level equipment meant you knew how to play and equip your job. Bad because it alienated and prevent players from joining in certain fights in endgame.
Do not be surprised to come across the following /yells in the game after this is introduced:
Quote: "T5 {Ceizak Battlegrounds} NM {Do you need it?} {Looking for members.} 4/18 {Item} {Level Sync} 110+ {equip}" Quote: "{Wildkeeprs Reive} {Foret de Hennetiel} {Looking for members.} 2/18 {Item} 120 (No exceptions!)" Quote: "Uptala VNM {Looking for members.} @ 7/18 {Item} {Level sync} 115+ CORx2 BRDx2 Lv99 R/E/M or (R6+)Delve DD {Can I have it} So, if you thought not getting invited to a Delve run by a pompous, elitist player in-game who thinks they know everything because you don't have a Rank 6+ Delve or level 99 R/E/M weapon, then imagine how much WORSE it'll be when they start judging you by Item Level of your gear and prevent you from being invited to certain endgame event /yells in game.
I like to play fair so players have equal access to getting both clears and equipment from the game. And, I REALLY DO NOT WANT to see a lot of elitist players use this to prevent players from getting access to the same equipment and gear. However, I want players to know how to play their jobs and equip it properly. But, everyone has their reasons for not getting certain pieces of gear. Not everyone is in an endgame Linkshell clearing Delve bosses weekly; knocking down Provenance monthly; or doing Legion on a regular basis. (Funnily enough, this would be the equivalent of knocking down Nidhogg, Aspid, and King Behemoth on a regular basis 4 or 5 years ago.) Heck, most people in real life will have situations where they can't be a part of a endgame LS that does events on a nightly basis turning the game into a second job, which should never happen. And, there are players who cannot stand the stress and demands of an endgame LS to get these gear for whatever reason they have. However, these players would like to still acquire these equipment and gear in order to better and improve their characters, so don't lock them out if they aren't "superbly" equip. Be reasonable and be fair. Everyone needs a chance at doing the endgame events in the game.
So, in closing: Once this system is added, please be more considerate to players' situations if they have the inability to acquire certain pieces of high Item Level gear in the game.
" If no one helps them, then who will?"
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-06-14 16:29:10
I can understand that they use this system of item levels to design them...I don't understand though why we should care lol.
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Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-06-14 16:30:23
Why are people so determined to make this silly little change into a huge issue?
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