Unsolved Mysteries Of Vana'diel

that time Altana did a carbuncle cosplay for comic-con...

Given the wings/halo it does feel like it's Altana, maybe just intentionally designed as a more ancient looking interpretation of her given the old temple - i'm definitely speculating here but maybe this is showing shes bound to all the elements, both dark and light? shes keeping things in balance? or that all sides of this Zilart struggle are her creation?

What is supposed to be the deal with Absolute Virtue, the jailers and Sea.

Sea is an area that is outside of the normal rules of Vana'diel, since it was phased into a different reality to avoid Bahamuts attacks. After the explosion it was sent to the bottom of the ocean, still phased out of our reality. The single shard of the mother crystal there is separated from the other 4, that it was initially joined to. They were originally all one great crystal with all the negative and positive traits within it.

All 5 mother crystals stored a specific part of the darkness, that was kept in them away from Promathia. To stop him taking his true form and becoming Shinryu and absorbing all life.

The Ark Angels existed long before the 5 races and each one is the mother crystal it belongs to given human form.



After the explosion around each arc/mother crystal, all the darkness leaked out of the them individually, and was absorbed into the people around them, this is why each of the different races exists today? The mithra we have now, were the Zilart around the mother crystal aligned with jealousy (and that's why they look the way they do, they took the form of the Ark Angel that represents that mother crystal - Ark Angel Mithra)

This meant that all the darkness was drained from all of the mother crystals and they were all then "pure" and free from darkness, potentially leaving only a positive opposing trait/s in them? However when any of the people from the 5 races die their souls/darkness return to their specific mother crystal, and so this darkness goes back to the mother crystal in a constant cycle. The darkness / soul is sent back to the mother crystal and reborn later in the body of another child, so that the peoples role as vessels of darkness is constant and ongoing (the mother crystals become a temp but minimal holding system, and the miasma / promies around them are the wiped memories of those peoples souls that get sent into a new body)

In Sea, the darkness was drained out and absorbed into what would become the Galka, however since that mother crystal was later put into a different dimension & at the bottom of the ocean their souls/darkness cannot return back to the mother crystal*. So the mother crystal in Sea is the only pure mother crystal now and the entire area is completely free from darkness and has been since this happened.

So sea has one mother crystal and it's pure, there is no influence of darkness there at all becuase Galka souls/darkness cannot reach it there. The Zilart that were there do not die and are not reborn as happens in Vana'diel, so they just eventually become beings of pure light (qualisilium).

So everything there is the exact opposite of the normal world, everything is "positive". In Vana'diel if all the negative traits are leaked too fast, Promathia can consume them and becomes Shinryu. So would it be that there, it's the opposite and and unseen being becomes AV when all these traits are released?

All of the jailers in Sea seem to mirror exactly the traits of the 5 races (And then some), Jailer of Love, Prudence, Temperance, Fortitude, Justice etc.

Them being called Jailer implies they exist to lock away these positive traits in the same way the Galka lock away Rage and Mithra lock away Jealousy from Promathia.

AV was obviously never supposed to be killed (even if they pretended otherwise), so there has to be some greater lore reason for that. If Promathia was called Absolute Death when he absorbed all the darkness, would that make Absolute Virtue Absolute life and that was why you could not kill him?

*Galka are reborn due to Odins magic instead of the normal way, to keep the darkness contained within them and stop it being released. So all Galka are in effect immortal and just reset over and over.

Sky gods didn't have any lore connection to the Zilart story, I don't think there has to be one for Promathia either.

Well, the Shijin in Tu'Lia do have a story, even if it's scant and very much in need of a steady diet of fatty hamburgers for awhile.

They're god beasts that the Zilart imprisoned by way of imprisoning Kirin, who is more or less their leader.

Kirin upon killing him:
"You have transcended your limitations, mortal. I must thank you...You have freed me from this loathsome prison."

By binding Kirin in the Shrine of Ru'Avitau, it bound the other Shijin to Tu'Lia as well, as Kirin is their master.

Then you can also look at the context clues. Tu'Lia's only inhabitants since its deactivation and reactivation are some pink birds, a ***ton of elementals, and a bunch of Arcana.

Arcana is notable because every Sky God pop item comes from one. Arcana are synonymous with automatons, and these are clearly Zilart servant robots that guard the seals on the gods.

Zipacna(Golem) - Gem of the North (Genbu)
Olle Grande(Magic Pot) - Winterstone (Genbu)
Steam Cleaner(Magic Pot) - Gem of the East (Seiryu)
Mother Globe(Detector) - Springstone (Seiryu)
Brigandish Blade(Animated Weapon) - Gem of the South (Suzaku)
Faust(Doll) - Summerstone (Suzaku)
Despot(Doll) - Gem of the West (Byakko)
Ullikummi(Golem) - Autumnstone (Byakko)

So we're still left to wonder why they imprisoned the Shijin, how exactly they imprisoned them, and why in Tu'Lia?

Could be that the Shijin opposed the return to paradise plan, and fought them in Tu'Lia. Could also just be a flex by the Zilart for a god animal zoo. Either way, the story we have with them is that we're seeking their treasures in Bartholomew's stead, and we defeat them to earn those treasures. But we're really just defeating prisoners who've been held captive for 10,000 years.

Will do another post for thoughts on Al'taieu.

The Jailers of Al'taieu are certainly interesting.

Chains of Promathia is ultimately a tail of faith and of the true origins of Vana'diel and its deities.

Remember though, where Al'taieu was before it was cloven from Vana'diel and moved to Lumoria.

It was the Zilart capital, and it was an island that lay in the Sea of Shu'Meyo. This is the sea that surrounds Qufim Island. Now it could have been part of Qufim Island at one time, as Qufim Island is a nearly perfect crescent, but that would be pure speculation as nothing states that directly.

Either way, when it was cloven from the land, it was cloven from the sea itself as well. Not just the Zilart were taken to Lumoria along with it. The animals surrounding the palace and surrounding its island were also taken along.

Also note that like Sky, there are invisible or what were supposed to be invisible barriers for people to walk upon. Unlike Sky, these seem to have come into play due to the land being cloven. It's a forcefield to protect the palace. It generated a field over the water flooding the island that was brought along, and it surrounds Lumoria in the sky, and that's why the entire sky of sea is lavender and grey hexagons.

Even further you will note that the forcefield you walk upon in Sea is several meters higher than the actual ground, and infrastructure that would normally lead up to the palace doors is actually damaged. Even more, there are plants that are completely submerged that show no signs of damage or being different than anything else in the area.

However, all plants and the ground have turned varying shades of blue, teal, purple, lavender, and white. Seemingly, oddly, temporally frozen and unaffected save their colors by the events around them. And the Quasilumins confirm that time doesn't seem to be or feel the same in Lumoria. There is no night or day. They know tons of time has passed because there used to be people, and the place used to be a, "beautiful garden." Many quasilumins on the outside refer to missing or serving their master, and say they are not permitted inside the palace. One also says that there are entities killing anything biological within the palace.

This reflects the true state of things. Yve'noile sealed the King of the Zilart who'd become Promathia's vessel in the throne room. She used the light of her life force to do that, and went comatose in the Chamber of Eventide, a final bulwark from its accumulated darkness/Emptiness spilling forth.

Those entities that kill biological beings are the Luminions, not quite arcana that have been made at an indeterminate time within Al'taieu's residence in Lumoria. Z'deis and Ghrahs. They don't show any hostility towards Aerns or Euvhis, however.

These are extra guards against anyone getting to the throne room, to interfere with Yve'noile's seal. Their purpose repurposed, possibly by Selhteus, but possibly by the Zilart themselves before they lost their bodies (and some of them their minds).

This brings into question what a Luminian is, the biological beings that do reside in Al'taieu, mostly outside of the palace. We have Aerns, Xzomits, Phuabos, Hpemdes, Euvhis, and Yovras. Most of these resemble transmogrified animals/plants. Xzomits are squids. Phuabos are sharks. Hpemdes are dolphins (no they're not goldfish). Aerns are humanoid. Euvhis are flowers.

Yovras are freakishly alien. They have tentacles numbering up to 12, and 4 of which are hidden in their stem. They to me, seem to be something of XI's take on biblically accurate angels.

These Luminians all seem to be possessed of immortality, shown by their organ descriptions. "Though you've cut the organ away from the body, it still functions."

We can infer that mostly these were what became of the animals that came along with Al'taieu across dimensions. We can also infer that the Aerns are the other Zilart or Kuluu who did not become Quasilumins.

In order to fight Absolute Virtue and the other sea Jailers, you have to start by getting the Deeds from the Ix'Aerns. These Deeds and the oncoming Virtues from the jailers are memories suspended in a physical bubble that coalesced after you killed them.

Lumoria is pushing in on the boundary between Vana'diel and the realm of the gods, so it would seem that certain beings that came along with Al'taieu now transcend mortality.

We're missing the 10000 year interim, and we don't actually have a precise time for when Promathia manifested in the King of the Zilart. But it stands to reason that since memories and souls are at play, and you can carry them in your inventory, that it may have been some other deities also began to manifest in the Luminians, like Promathia did in the Zilart King.

Further still, if this happened while the King was still The King, perhaps he ordered them to be sealed away as best he could. Just like in Sky with Kirin, to access the later Jailers, you ascend through a path of Luminions (the Arcana) and Aerns (loyal humanoids) in order to fight godly beasts.

AV's dialogue on claim reveals that these virtues and memories held by all of the Ix'Aerns and Jailers were his. Like with Kirin, he was sealed, and we broke the seal to kill him in the name of treasure. In this case, they are AV's memories of his sins.

They become physical, and you give them to Meret, the other researcher near Yurm the gorget/obi lady, to receive the items.

It's a mystery even for our NPCs.

Interesting take on the shijin, I always thought it was just a nod to chinese/japanese mythology.

I know it works more like souls in The Wheel of Time (previous lives very rarely bleed over a bit and memories are retained between incarnations but there's not supposed to be continuity during a given lifetime), but damn, now you got me thinking Galka are Time Lords.

The thing to look out for is which mask he's wearing. If it's a Dusk Mask (purple), then it's the real deal. If it's a Crimson Mask (red), then it's actually .

One thing I liked was the death animation of Voidwatch monsters. It's a direct copy of that animation of mobs that you defeat in Final Fantasy X.

Also something which wasn't mentioned a lot is the BST jug frog pet, BraveHeroGlenn which obviously a homage to the famous frog swordsman from Chrono Trigger.

Which female race has the biggest boobs?

Elves

These are almost certainly answerable by the fact that this is a video game, and certain conceits have to be made for that. But..

Is there any official explanation on why Quadavs, Yagudo and Orcs are allowed to just wander freely 2-3 minutes from big cities?

They fought against them in the crystal war, untold devestation, but there's just like.. several low level Quadavs just congregating in pits near Bastok. Openly being aggressive to anyone walking by.

Also - and again - probably just video game-itus. How do non-adventuring folk actually accomplish anything in Vana'Diel? There are clearly non-adventuring folk in cities. Is it all just Airships? Even ships are wildly unsafe.

I vaguely recall seeing an article/interview from when Wings of the Goddess was under development, that stated that situations in the past would affect the current years. This was in relation to Beastmen in the past controlling a region. That is during the weekly Campaign/Conquest update, if the Beastmen controlled a region in the past, most of those Beastmen would appear in the present

WoTG (correct me if I'm wrong on anything)

Vana'diel originally lost the crystal war, the Shadow lord destroyed all the cities of the 5 races and wiped most of its leaders and most of its people.

Lillisette and her allies were about to be wiped out by the beastmen, she made a pact with Odin as she was dying to become Lillith and her remaining allies Spite Wardens. This allowed her to defeat the shadow lord, however in doing so she in effect became the new tyrant ruling over a destroyed land.

Altana tried to save Vana'diel from this fate and so created a fake alternate reality where the Shadow Lord was defeated with no explanation, and all the people and cities were still in existence. She is not all powerful though, and there are many forces outside of her control. Atomos consumes timelines that should not exist because they have no history, and she knows this when she makes it.

This is where the players comes in, the players / adventurers are allowed to enter this dreamworld version of Vana'diel she has created to try and save it.

The players go back in time via the Maws (Lillisette also goes separately, who is on her own mission to save her father) to the past to change history in favor of our timeline, to save it from being consumed by Atomos. The player counters all the actions that lead to the defeat of the allied races, with the help of one of the Spite Wardens that betrays Lillith.

When you go back in time you see a meteor in the sky, this is Atomos coming to consume one of the present timelines, it's a sign to the player of the coming apocalypse.

Lillith comes back from her timeline with her spite wardens to try to stop the player changing the timeline, Robel-Akbel the taru spite warden (taru in black face wraps) offers to help her stop the player and she accepts his help. His actual goal is the exact opposite though, he wants to destroy his timeline to save the Star Sibyl who he saw die in his (he is actually Karaha-Baruha in disguise).

The player succeeds, makes our timeline the real one and the past is now our real history. Due to actions by Lillith inside Atomos Lilliette is killed, and she will be cease to exist in all timelines outside of Atomos. Rather than ceasing to exist, she decides to take the place of Lillith in the other timeline and in doing so saves it from Atomos too.

In CoP, it’s established that the reason the terrestrials would become beasts is because before the great crystal was shattered to save Promathia, that’s all the terrestrials were, mindless beasts. There are apparently some exceptions to this as is explored in some CoP and SoA quests, but this is why the Terrestrials aren’t too keen on helping out in CoP. Everything that came to existence after the Great Crystal’s shattering would apparently be destroyed had the mothercrystals become one again, and the original Vana’diel restored.

In SoA, Hades discusses certain mortals who are able to break past their mortal bonds. He then references Odin, the sage, and Frit, the general, and another iirc. This more-less confirms that the celestials are of the new Vana’diel (post the breaking of the great crystal). This would then go on to suggest that the celestial avatars would cease to be, just like the rest of the world if the Mothercrystals were brought back together (the gate of the gods was opened).

Now, there is evidence in certain CoP quests iirc that suggest that the mithra believed the Celestials predate the breaking of the great crystal. This is in direct contradiction to what Hades believes. But no one has been kind enough to coordinate a history debate between the Mithran elders and Hades, so I suppose this really is an unsolved mystery of Vana’diel.

And then AVR muddies the waters even more by placing the celestials on the astral plane and having them discover Vana'diel - or at least, Odin does, his attention being drawn to the world during the first rampage of Chaos, and he claims another world as his domain, turning it into Valhalla, which definitively places celestial avatars as beings well above and beyond the singular world of Vana'diel.

But that's Voracious Resurgence, I kind of think of anything presented for the first time in that as a retcon or a last-minute attempt to patch holes in the lore. Plus, it also strongly implies that Ramuh existed in Vana'diel or one of its precursors as Ramuul of the Olduum civilization, so like... how does that work, did the celestials have mortal incarnations at some point, was that an avatar of the true Ramuh, was Olduum from the age of the Zilart, it's just a mess.

So, when Altana shatters the great crystal, it gives rise to different worlds and planes of reality. There's Vana'diel, Abyssea, Escha, and Desuetia (though there may be more). The people of Abyssea for example believe that their world is the original. It seems that, not every celestial avatar comes from Vana'diel (I believe Odin and Alexander are the only two, but I may be wrong), most of them do.

Selh'teus in RoV mentions that Odin seems to uniquely have the ability to move between worlds, though he is hindered to some degree. It seems that his movement was limited to the region surrounding the Hazhalm Testing Grounds until his proto-crystal is destroyed.

I've heard Topyoash explain Odin's ability to travel freely differently, and how it was tied to Alexander. But it was a brief explanation, and I didn't ask for clarification.

There are no Spitewardens that really betray Lilith. Robel-Akbel is quardoned off to Windurst quests, and you get no interactions with him if you are from Sandy or Bastok. I guess you could say he betrays her by omission, by never directly participating in her plans, and aiding Windurst to the fullest extent possible to ensure that, that false prophet lame duck dictator *** *** gets to live (I really don't like Star Sibyl).

To put things a little more solidly, when Altana saw what would befall Vana'diel with regards to The Shadowlord being unstoppable, she wept and her tears turned into the Cait Sith. It was the Cait Sith she tasked with altering time, to ensure that Vana'diel arrives at the time that we know. Our future, as the game puts it.

What transpires then, in WoTG, is that Lilith has become aware that the timeline is being altered, due to the appearance of Atomos's maws in her future. This angers her, because she received no beneficence from Altana in her world, and she sees all other possible Vana'diels as fake, cheap charades.

Because of Lilith's actions, the maws begin to appear in our future, and we investigate them based on adventurely curiosity alone. We are taken back in time to when both Lilith and the Cait Sith are both acting to try and change the timeline, catching sight of a Cait Sith on our way through The Walk of Echoes.

Remember that in early WoTG, the Cait Sith have meetings where they are aware that there are interlopers interfering with their work. These interlopers are Lilith and her Spitewardens. In spite of having us and Lilisette on their side, the Cait Sith are rather weak compared to the Spitewardens, and the Spitewardens actually enact events that accelerate the defeat of the Allied Forces i.e. wounding Sir Ragelise, the lynchpin of San d'Oria's army, far sooner in the war than he was in the original timeline's set of events. Intriguingly, this wound is made by a blast from a Spitewarden, meaning that Lilith learned how to make such a wound and directed the Spitewarden to wound her own father.

You also misremember what happens to Lilisette. In the final confrontation with Lilith, a battle fought for the right to exist, her dark form is defeated. Lilisette takes pity on her, but Lilith then lashes out and consumes Lilisette, fusing with her into Lilith Transcendent (this form looks an alarming amount like the Altana we'd later see in TVR). After the Adventurer defeats Lilith Transcendant, the fusion ends and Lilith dies, petitioning Lilisette to live in her stead. Lilisette isn't dead or bound. She willingly chooses to go to Lilith's world to try and prevent its extinction/consumption by a means that she doesn't know because when she was fused she felt all that Lilith felt and came to know all that Lilith did. Remember that Lilisette and Lilith are alternate versions of the same person. Remember that later on in Rhapsodies, she comes to Reisenjima with the other expansion girls to fight Cloud of Darkness in several cutscenes.

Have to take what Hades believes with a grain of salt. He's not even a denizen of Vana'diel, being of Tartarus instead. (I don't remember this line, but if anything it's probably another loose thread referencing the sort of side content like those showcases in Vana'diel Tribune). I'll have to look over SoA cutscenes sometime soon.

The Protocrystals though, remember, are products of the Zilart. Meaning Celestial Avatars have been around at least that long, and were more or less shackled to Vana'diel. And the Kuluu communed with them as a means to survive outside of Zilartian civilization, those Kuluu who were at first exiled or left instead of being taken to The Chamber of Eventide. This is why Summoner is such a common job for Tonberries(mutated Kuluu).

It might be that they existed prior to Altana shattering the Mothercrystal, but they couldn't enter that realm of gods, or didn't dare too. But once mortals were created, then, then they could enter or would enter and do things almost unopposed.

The great sentient crystal created Altana and Promthia. The Celestial avatars were created from the "many colored lights" or elements within the great crystal.



Altana exists in all realities at once (there is only one Altana and she can see all realities), Promathia is cloned in each one. Altana split the great crystal into 5 pieces and laid them into Vana'diel to keep the darkness in them away from him.

The Celestial Avatars are aligned with each element and have a protocrystal (I think the Zilart made these by siphoning the lights from the mother crystals to try waken the avatars?), (Ifrit, Shiva, Leviathan, Ramuh, Titan, Garuda). Odin and Alexander also had/have protocrystals, Odins was destroyed during the crystal war by the Orcs in Bearclaw Pinacle and he is now fully awake, he created an underworld area (Valhalla) as his domain. Alexanders "protocrystal" (it's not a crystal, more of a mechanical housing) is the Astral Candescence, this was originally housed in a great mechanical body. This massive body was destroyed in a fight with Odin called Ragnarok, and when it fell to earth it landed in the ocean and become what is now the Undersea Ruins in Aht Urhgan.



Odin exists mainly in Valhalla, but is free to roam as he wishes. The researchers of Aht Urhgan were carrying out experiments in the Hazhalm Testing Grounds, with bringing back the dead and fusing life forms to make things like Lamia and other undead monsters. During these experiments with the dead bodies they were re-animating, they accidentally opened a gate to Valhalla and the entire area had to be closed and gated off. It's now an area where players can enter Einherjar to be tested by Odin, if they get permission to enter from Kilusha.

All avatars that came after these were created with Vana'diel by Altana and are called terrestrial avatars.

When Promathia achieves ultimate death, it does not mean he dies. It means he absorbs all life, he turns into Shinryu during this process and once he absorbs everyone and the darkness within them he is his ultimate form.

So I guess that raises another question: Are the celestial avatars in the protocrystals? Are the prime avatars actually the celestial avatars, or just a fragment like the versions we summon but moreso?

I kind of wonder if this dips into the half-notion of an interconnected Final Fantasy cosmology, where the celestials are literally the Ifrit, Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan, Titan, Odin, Alexander, and... for some reason Garuda who doesn't show up in a similar form anywhere else I can think of besides maybe that other MMO. Then you get the prime avatars in the protocrystals which are just... like, a world's worth of each avatar scooped out, incarnated, and trapped in a box. If the true avatar wakes up from its slumber between worlds, it will reabsorb that incarnation, realize Vana'diel is out there, and just go ham?

The celestials exist in this weird state of both slumbering and being unaware, but also being awakened and aware but only briefly; in Waking the Beast, they show up without being directly summoned - you get the whispers of each avatar but I don't think that normally means enough for them to just show up and start attacking? But they talk there like they're aware of Vana'diel, a bit on the fence about mortals, but pretty pissed about Carby and friends horning in on the avatar racket. But somehow this doesn't lead into the "oh no, the avatars are awake in Vana'diel" apocalypse that the summoner plot is supposed to be preparation for.

... and that still leaves the part that makes me wonder about how celestial avatars actually fit into everything, the thing that still bugs me to this day: What is up with the wandering avatars in Abyssea? If the protocrystals are shattered and the prime avatars set loose, and somehow that didn't awaken the true god-level celestials, well, okay, I can accept that but... why the renames? It's a parallel Vana'diel, everything else was the same up until suddenly it wasn't, why does it have off-brand bootleg avatars?

And where is Jesus in all of this?

Indeed, who do we know in the broad world of Final Fantasy XI lore who has scourged the underworld and faced down the greatest of evil, has taken on the sins of humanity to absolve them, has been betrayed by a close companion, died and returned from the dead...

(And all but that first one is all just Chains of Promathia!)

You never see Jesus and Sel'theus in the same room together, just saiyan. O:

Also I assume people know this, but the girl in the original FFXI intro that is shown as being killed by orcs is alive and well in modern XI. She is Mathilde in Selbina.

So in Abyssea there's a lot going down that's even more enigmatic than anything we've talked about so far.

The wandering avatars are interesting, because some of them are also Voidwalkers in Abyssea, like Chione(Shiva) in Uleguerande, and then also Mauve or whatever(Diabolos!!!) in Grauberg.

There's also generally multiple of them in the same zone. Notably on continents where their protocrystals were not. Like Titan is in Tahrongi. Ifrit is in Attowha. Garuda is in Konschtat.

They won't even spawn in some zones though, unless certain criteria are met with regards to I think Dominion / other battle content thing that never really took off.

And in that battle content, the Archaic Machinery from inside of the Alzadaal Underseas ruins sweeps in and destroys mankind's martellos, which are buffing machines from the end of WoTG that were implemented in Campaign to help players really, but are buffing machines that keep the survivors of Abyssea strong and going, I guess almost like Enertons from Chrono Trigger.

Why would the machines powered by Alexander's divine essence be trying to eradicate the rest of mankind? Why does beating them back a certain amount cause avatars to spawn and roam?

What were all of the differences in Abyssea? Because the NPCs we recognize have entirely different back stories. Like Curilla of Abyssea got her eye scar not from being overzealous in a tournament against Prince Trion and sundering her own sword with Savage Blade... But instead by an attack from a powerful Gnole NM, that she asks you to get revenge against.

Why did the Abyssea version of the Adventurer, Ulmia, Tenzen, and Sehlteus all lose to Promathia in that world?

Can't remember if I posted these before or not, so I'll just post them here. I think they are from a card game or something.

Most of these look like AI trash.