Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Yeah Drk-bro, primes are overrated, I'm telling you all you need is good ol' R15 Calad and Aria.

But Drk-bro, don't you need a prime to do Aria?

...

Then are you implying the prime weapons are tailor made for us?

Funny how people react to discussion about facts. I haven't even provided any opinion (and I don't want to). We simply wanted to have a bigger picture and understanding of game we love.


I have no idea what you mean here. Aria is PDL, we know how PDL works.

I sincerely can't tell if the last half dozen or so posts (aside from Simon) are sarcasm or delusion.

Didn't mean to interrupt your maths lessons with fun, do carry on.

It opens scission for savage and closes liquidfaction off savage. Compare that to opening and closing light of savage its not really close.
The dagger is good in its own way but you cant deny the power of making easy lights with savage (via prime katana or scythe).

Yeah it's a little wild to see people saying things like they are prioritizing their white damage tp builds on SAM instead of the PDL weapon that will make their pdif caps better than say a PUPs.

DA? No thanks, I like fully wiffing WSs like Tanaka intended.

I guess people just can't imagine a world where they could hold tp past 1000tp and still to win parses.


Polearm and Great Axe are similar. If you open, Savage Blade makes Distortion, and you finish it up with darkness. It's really nice.

No disagreement here. Just pointing out that there is SC compatibility between Savage and Ruthless in general.

You can look at it from different perspective though.

Savage -> Origin is light, but then another Savage is nothing, then Origin is light again.

Savage -> Ruthless is liquefaction, but then Savage is scission, then Ruthless is liquefaction, so you can even make 6steps and it would be slightly stronger than 3x 2step Light. Ofc this is much more limited because target needs to be vulnerable to both fire and stone elements, while Light covers light, thunder, wind and fire. On the other hand if target absorbs one of those, then your Light is useless.

Since when is savage blade distortion?

Since day 0

Transfixion > Scission

Also your target needs to have enough HP for the 3rd, 4th, 5th SC to matter. Also you need to only have 2 melee on the target.

These things are neat and all and maybe my meta is just different to yours but uh..how often are you guys fighting an enemy with 300k health and the only melee on it are a 2h weapon user and a single person using SB?

I think Opening/Closing Light is potentially useful because you can just catch a random SC with 1-3 people using SB, cool no coordination or TP holding needed. Once you get into 3-step and 6-steps, it becomes an increasingly uncommon scenario. Maybe some CP farming strat where somehow the mobs are alive after 4 WS?

Also have to consider if your weapon opens Light (or Darkness) with commonly used WS that could be a major downside for fights where you're trying to avoid SC, like most of Sortie, Bumba, and some of the Ody bosses (during fetter mode). Making easy SC with Savage Blade is often a reason you don't get to use your weapon, not an advantage.

Really depends on the situation, as everything else in FFXI. That's the power of the primes IMO; even if they're not the best in every scenario they give you a new, different option that will be the best in some scenario, and if you really want to perform at your best, you should have one. Or two, or three...

When you know how level 1 SC properties work. So since always when you bring Transfixion.

Primes intentionally put the level 1 sc properties first so they interact differently than every other WS.

Savage Blade is Fragmentation/Scission
Diarmuid is Transfixion/Scission/Gravitation

So it goes Transfixion + Scission = Distortion + Gravitation = Dark

If Diarmuid was Gravitation/Transfixion/Scission then it would go Gravitation + Fragmentation = Fragmentation and it would end there. But it doesn't.

my tier list of primes so far.
SSS: Horn
S: Dagger, Polearm, Great Katana, Club (stage 1 or 2 only)
A: Great Axe, Katana, Great Sword, Scythe
B: Gun (Maybe A tier for -50 enmtiy 20 dex bullet for savage cor), Bow, Hand to hand
C: Sword

I'm not ranking shield / staff because their power can be S tier depending on jobs you play and how often you use it. I don't have axe so I cant rank it.

Sleep awakening?

I think gun is S, Polearm is A.

This is more like a tier list based on use case in Sortie right?

Gun/bow are actually very powerful on RNG fighting high HP target and actually shooting. Bullet is good for Savage on COR and decent for ranged fight. Gun can also be used by RNG and COR, which is an important advantage.
Polearm or GKT aren't stronger than Great Axe, Great Sword and Scythe and Scythe having by far the biggest utility on top of being top tier for damage is arguably tier higher than weapons only top tier for damage. Also arguably Great Sword being for WAR/DRK/PLD/RUN should also be tier above weapons only top tier for damage for one job. Katana above H2H, gun and bow is kinda silly :)

My tier list would probably looks like this

SS: Horn
S: Dagger, Scythe, Great Sword
A: Gun, Bow, Great Axe, Great Katana, Polearm, Staff, H2H
B: Katana, Axe
C: Sword
D: Club stage 3+

completely agree with Simon regarding his opinions on Earp and Pinaka. I've had stage5 Pinaka(bow) for about 4 months now, and just dinged stage4 Earp(gun) at the start of this week.

All I can say is there has to have been a lot of very poor usage of the Earp early on to determine its potency/value- even at stage4 I'm really impressed and the ceiling on this thing is up there. I understand the demand for ranged-based damage as a specific form is less now than in the past...but with the right gearsets, buffs, and usage, these two weapons in particular are showing potential to hang with damn near anything.

For the first time in years I have to worry about pulling hate on RNG, and even have gone as far as finding use for Decoy Shot again^^ All I want to confirm for everyone is if there's something you want to make for a favorite job or situation- go ahead and do it. It'll find some use and you'll enjoy what's possible.

My only real issue with Earp is the fight that you really really would want it for (Arrebati) has a major flaw in that Terminus closes an Induration Skillchain off of both Last Stand and Slug Shot which will heal Arebati 100k.

I would say it's more of a weapon for COR than RNG on Arebati, because RNG will grab hate too fast with it. RNG should do Coronach and maybe swap to Prime in last 20% or something. Coronach and Terminus make Lights, whatever who go first.
If RNG want to use it at last 20%, COR can switch to Fomal and you can do Terminus -> Last Stand -> Terminus -> Last Stand which will do fragmentation -> light -> Radiance
So overall I would say it's the opposite of what you are suggesting. It has the most helpful skillchain properties for the Tiger, just don's spam it mindlessly (unless other person is doing Coronach)

Making light on arrebati is the same as not skillchaining at all. The only thing you care about is not making darkness, distortion, or induration. The darkness risk primarily comes from the ranger weaponskilling Coronach back to back before the Corsair can break it up. Closing induration is a valid concern too though. I wouldn’t say terminuses skillchain properties are detrimental to arrebati strategies, but I wouldn’t say they’re helpful either. You have to be careful with weaponskill order no matter how you slice it.

Swap GS and polearm. I own both weapons, GS is a solid option to add to the arsenal but you will never need to equip another polearm after gae buide

Nah Gkt is C tier. Don't need it, just Masa R15 and Aria.

In my opinion being the strongest DPS polearm isn't enough for S rank. Naegling is still better for raw no self sc DPS and Gae Buide has almost 0 utility, because DRG already have very strong Umbra, so 3 step darkness isn't anything amazing. DRG even have two very strong gravitation WSs, so even just for that Diarmuid isn't anything super useful.
So yeah it's strong, but it lacks extra thing that would make it S weapon.

Great Sword is one of the top damage for DRK, but also for WAR. It has great utility for very strong darkness on WAR (also by far strongest Distortion option for WAR). You can have fun with it on 4 jobs, which is also very important imo. It could be A+ instead of S I guess.

So Wyvern lvl +3 is almost 0 utility?

Yes. What makes you think wyvern level is a relevant stat? The wyvern's damage is totally irrelevant and 3 levels gives it...25 HP? Not going to be any more survivable. I guess maybe the extra accuracy might help it hit more which makes spirit link give you more TP but that is the mother of all stretches to call it utility.

4 jobs can make use of great sword, but how well can all 4 make use of it? I think dagger is overrated for the same reason, personally. Ruthless doesn't come close to Savage for no self-sc damage which covers 3* of the 4 jobs on it; if you hold Naegling against Gae Buide it should also be a knock against Mpu Gandring, especially for how much less Ruthless does than Savage

*I don't have a thf, so I'm making an assumption there, but it's certainly the case for RDM and BRD

Well it almost is. All it really does is add some survivability to Wyvern, but if you fight something that is really a treat to your dearest flying friend, you will use neck+relic legs+gletis hands or even empy head+3 and then wyvern is probably harder to kill than DRG himself. Idk maybe there is some fight where +78 def/meva and +24hp (afaik this is what +3wyvern lvl would add?) could make a huge difference, but I can't remember even one atm.

Well yeah mostly DRK and WAR. The nature of PLD and RUN makes it more of a toy for them, but new toy is still added value in a game that doesn't get many new content. Like I said I would probably drop it to it's special A+ instead of S.


This is true, but like you notice DNC doesn't have Savage. I need to check it again, but for THF Mpu Gandering V and Naegling seems to be equal in DPS. For THF, DNC and BRD it also adds by far the best self Light option, which is super important for DNC specifically. I could agree, that maybe it should be in A+ too I guess, but for sure not in A. It's the best Dagger for 2 jobs and it has great utility for at least 2 jobs and and good utility for at least 1 more (arguably 2, as best piercing for RDM and skillchain option for BRD).