Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

Ran some numbers on Diarmuid with the stage 4 earlier today. Not terribly familiar with the calculations, but came up with rough ftp value of 2/5/8 and wsc of 65% str/vit based on the small sample size.

Open to being wrong on the math

More good stuff in trove is better than nothing. Hurray Job cards and void torsos!


100% DA silliness is really for WAR and DRG jumps, maybe somewhere else I'm not aware of. I think they didn't give GKat everything and more because it's already getting a lot from a PDL bump to increase their lower 2h pdif. It's not like SAM has trouble TPing with the TA in their sets or WSing at high TP for SCs because of Sekka, Konzen, Sengi, or Haga.

It's not like 10 DA on it's own is bad, it's just not good compared to the other toys that some Prime Weapons got. Heck now that I think about it, you'd probably trade for what 1h sword got which is really unfortunate. 70 Attack, 250+ magic damage, 10 DT, and 4 refresh for Schere earring or Consume Mana would have been killer.

10DA on Sam is arguably bad because it blocks out and is worse than Zanhasso procs. TA on SAM isn't bad because it is not worse than a Zanhasso proc. Zanshin or Store Tp would've been much better

Since its on the weapon its not so awful, your WSs will get the benefit of the DA. Those lucky Nyame DA procs add damage but also lower your miss rate. A missed WS on SAM is more punishing to DPS than DA during the TP phase.

Mumei scales well too so you can easily hold for 2k+ TP and still hit the 3 step.

Multiattack dmg in a front loaded WS is awful tho. At best you'll save a skillchain on those 5% chances to miss 10% more often. Exciting stuff. It's not terribly impactful and those other stats still would've been better. Overall contribution of those stats giving tp overflow to every WS you do vs the extra chance of getting dogshit dmg on a missed one once in a while.

best ws case would be hybrids but youd probably use aeonic or mythic for those if that was the primary ws used

Speaking of Hybrid... how good would Aftermath be for Hybrids?
Actually PDL in general.

It affects only the physical part of hybrids of course, but since the base damage of the magic part is based on how much damage the physical part does, wouldn't boosting the physical part end up indirectly giving a small boost to the magical part too?

Done some base messing around with Flaming Arrow on Pinaka with AM up against junk- it's definitely the winner among bows for that WS (not much of challenge, let's be honest)...but haven't tried it against real targets to feel out how it holds up. Certainly curious, and moreso how other weapons that more commonly use hybrids shape up compared to other traditional choices.

From personal experience and not directly testing.. I have seen more 99999 on A and C boss since I started using prime weapon over masa. on A I do not use mumei so no aftermath. I wonder if it's the higher magic acc skill

Ultimately wouldn't matter for any job that uses an Aeonic for their hybrids since frequency of the 99ks would matter more than trying to add more dmg to the 99ks, but it'd make a difference.

Is Fail-not a fail-yes for hybrids? Never bothered to check tests about it.
GKT and KT are BiS, or rather were BiS, for hybrid. So I'm not really sure how Fail-not performed for RNG for Flaming Arrow.

Are you saying Pinaka in your experience performs better than Fail-not?


What Prothescar is saying is absolutely true though.
For the type of content you use Hybrid for, you usually reach 99k quite easily. At least I do on NIN and SAM in Sheol C, for instance.
So adding more damage wouldn't really matter given how you're at the cap already... There are circumstances where I do not reach 99k though.
Having something that boosts hybrid more than Aeonic do could mean shooting WS at lower TP threshold, no? I rarely shoot WSs under 1500 when I'm going for Hybrids with Aeonic. If I can reach 99k with lower TP thresholds that would mean higher overall DPS, no?
Or am I missing something here?

I think we are saying the same thing. I agree its not ideal but if a missed 1st hit is saved by the DA proc in the middle of the SC its a bigger deal then that DA is during the TP phase on SAM. A completely missed WS ends a SC, a 5000 damage DA proc can be followed with a 70k WS + 70 SC.

Again I agree its not ideal but it does have value for SAM.

2 things Sechs-

First, ya Fail-Not was before the best choice, and is certainly acceptable. The TP bonus is hard to fight against, but considering how TP overflow is so common, that advantage does disappear in some situations, and the STP+10 will (in time) get matched by stage5's matching STP.

Second- I've never found a stable way to constantly hit 99ks with it unless truly fully buffed for hybrids (typically, a situation with both Fraily/Malaise down for example)- just doesn't have the teeth that raw physical WSs have with bow and certainly not the predictable damage of say Jinpu. I was just happy to see potential- now how that really holds up in proper moments I've yet to experience.

How did you get 1k and 2k TP, Tacticians roll?
This was something that i was struggling with for my Mumei testing

The set I posted would give me 200 tp per hit so that I could hit 1k and 2k exactly. Time consuming, but it did the trick

I mean yeah, it's a bigger effect when it saves you a SC, but the chances of that are a hell of a lot lower than it hurting you when it procs on a normal swing.

To save a SC, you first have to whiff the first hit (5% chance), then the DA from the weapon has to trigger (10% chance), then the DA has to itself not miss (95% chance). That's like a 1/210 chance, compared to a 1/10 chance of it activating during a melee round and slightly hindering you.

Even then, it's only really making a big difference if it's saving an opening or linking WS, rather than a closing one.

Lorg Mor AM increases base cure power.

Stage 4

1000 TP:
Magic Damage+30
Cure+30

2000 TP:
Magic Damage+50
Cure+50

3000 TP:
Magic Damage+80
Cure+80

If polearm is 2/5/8 with STR/VIT at 65% as Jabrolout tested, that actually looks pretty good for polearm, right?

Even the tiniest tp overflow will make it better than Camlann, and thats already one of the better general use WSes for polearm, right?

Keep in mind that 1/10 chance that it procs doesn't actually slightly hinder you. It only slightly hinders you IF that attack would've also been a zanhasso hit (25% if I'm not mistaken). So 1/40 chance of hurting you, more like? And even still, the DA doesn't completely wipe out the Zanhasso double, just makes it give less TP (since you're still double attacking, just the second hit doesn't have bonus TP)

Thanks for the math behind this stuff. For me its all about the first hit since that is what gives the tp, everything after is already a loss. A DA proc (maybe I'm wrong) gives like 10 tp which is nothing to continue a skillchain and also we already lost all the damage from the first hit.

DA and Sam are like oil and water.

Doesn't really matter since if someone grinds a stage 5 it'll be bis there's that regardless of the fluff stat.

A triple digit damage DA only WS still continue the stillchain though.

Unless you're implying that you wont be able to get TP in time for the next WS. If that miss is the difference between continuing the SC or not, then the 95% accuracy cap must really mess with your ability to continue solo-skillchaining.

Fair observation, I think you are describing a capped haste situation. Sam tp is insane when capped and cor buffed. Might could miss two ws and still make the chain! Which incidentally is where prime weapons shine.

Could you be more specific? What setup for full clear with 4-minutes remaining? Does the WHM or SCH healer want to kill themselves by the time you reach those remaining 4 minutes? "I know people do it" doesn't really inspire confidence for consistently high return Ody-C segment farms.

I won't boast here because the only two times I managed to have a full clear of Sheol C with a few mins to spare I was in a JP static group.
I don't remember the full details of those setups but three things were in common:

1) Healer was a SCH/RDM
2) BRD was pulling from every corner of each floor using an evasion/def setup and those boots that give you flee effect
3) The COR's DPS was very high and almost on par to that of the DDs

With enough buffs the stage4 will out dmg existing options - two handers at least.

Obviously buff dependent. Last floor needs SV songs.

Pulling the top and bottom effectively on Floor 3 is the key to a full clear beyond Deeps.

I've gone with a WAR w/ Stage4 GS and its very strong inside but by the end of the run he was back to Savage/Judgement spam.

Prime weapons are not likely to be a factor at all in seg farms. DD jobs can already kill mobs in a single WS, if you hit for 65k or 92k it doesn't matter. Unless the weapon allows you to 1-shot a mob you couldn't otherwise, which I think is pretty minimal, maybe Agon mobs, but I think they have over 99k HP (on top floors)?

If I had to guess, you'll get better results with Doji (STP) than with prime (DA), since both are 1-shotting the mobs. Same with Gaxe, and tbh from what I've seen/heard from our Prime DRK, Scythe. Origin isn't the best at 1-shotting trash mobs with seg farm levels of buffs.

Also: who gives a flying *** if you clear Sheol C with 1, 3, or 5 minutes remaining? Get a prime weapon so you can have an easier time clearing difficult content, or carry lesser-geared players through content, not so you can faceroll slightly easier on joke-tier content.

But thats how speedruns work!

Time to add full clear Sheol C as an official speedrun
https://www.speedrun.com/final_fantasy_xi

Category 1: 100% clear (mimics too lets go!)
Category 2: 100% nostos, halo, all juctions
Cat 3: 100% nostos and halos, no junction