Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Except if you make sword and they don't adjust anything major for stage 5...
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Does anyone know if the hidden effect damage from stage 4 Primes works exactly like Relics?
Aka extra damage on first hit only, no multi attack procs for melee. Can activate on Barrage for ranged super silliness and also works on double shot? Possibly triple shot for COR since they never got a relic?
Aka extra damage on first hit only, no multi attack procs for melee. Can activate on Barrage for ranged super silliness and also works on double shot? Possibly triple shot for COR since they never got a relic?
Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
I've decided I really want only one thing from Stage 5- un-gate the WS behind the weapon upon completion.
This is perfect design, because then once you finish the weapon you never have a reason to put it on again.
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Bahamut.Eisenzahn said: »
Asura.Volteczero said: »
looks like some testing with prime gun WS
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1668295029654437889
https://twitter.com/Aramith9/status/1668295029654437889
The star feature for Cor on the stage 4 prime gun is actually the bullet when meleeing. People forget that while a bullet is equipped it actually functions stat-wise like any other armour slot. So if you are savage blading with the tp-bonus gun you get a permanent -50 enmity plus minor evasion and crit/acc from the 20 dex and 20 agi.
Gun performance is fine, but somewhat limited due to Terminus only really shining at 2k+.
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Prime Weapon Stage 4 Aftermath Scaling:
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Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
Prime Weapon Stage 4 Aftermath Scaling:
I'm shocked and completely flabbergasted by how clever it is to check Beastmaster's Ranged Damage with Ullr to measure Prime Weapon Aftermath/PDL. I don't give these awards out often and it is only but a small token of my appreciation. Please keep doing what you're doing.
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Felgarr said: »
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Aftermath information:
Tests done by shooting with capped attack as outlined earlier in the thread.
1000tp: 2% PDL for 60s
2000tp: 5% PDL for 120s
3000tp: 8% PDL for 180s
Scales between each breakpoint like Mythic AM. E.x.: 1611tp produced a 3% PDL aftermath.
Tests done by shooting with capped attack as outlined earlier in the thread.
1000tp: 2% PDL for 60s
2000tp: 5% PDL for 120s
3000tp: 8% PDL for 180s
Scales between each breakpoint like Mythic AM. E.x.: 1611tp produced a 3% PDL aftermath.
Carry on with the excellent testing, brothers!
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Bahamut.Celebrindal said: »
just build something you'll have fun with. No content 'needs' them as was just proven, and I don't see most getting a shot at making more than 1 stage 5, unless requirements adjust over time. So don't worry so dang much about testing and numbers and rankings, and just make something for a job you enjoy....and you'll never be disappointed.
Seg C run [Do You Need It] Stage 5 Prime DD [Can I Have It]
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Phoenix.Iocus said: »
Does anyone know if the hidden effect damage from stage 4 Primes works exactly like Relics?
Aka extra damage on first hit only, no multi attack procs for melee. Can activate on Barrage for ranged super silliness and also works on double shot? Possibly triple shot for COR since they never got a relic?
Aka extra damage on first hit only, no multi attack procs for melee. Can activate on Barrage for ranged super silliness and also works on double shot? Possibly triple shot for COR since they never got a relic?
Annihilator's "occ. deals double damage" can proc on both (and really, all 3 with the right gear) shots of Doubleshot and without question Pinaka does as well. Barrage I've never been hugely concerned about if/when aftermaths proc versus just getting a consistent TP gift.
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Seg C run [Do You Need It] Stage 3 Prime DD [Can I Have It]
To be fair, anyone requesting for a stage 3 prime outside or sortie should be avoided anyways. There is an obvious knowledge gap there...
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drakefs said: »
To be fair, anyone requesting for a stage 3 prime outside or sortie should be avoided anyways. There is an obvious knowledge gap there...
Asura is a hit or miss regardless of /yell listing or gear equipped, I've a lot of infamous players, some known as super helpful mentors, have rage quit moments in Seg runs when their "computer stops responding' etc.
I've seen R30 Nyame, ML50 BRD's solo pull 20+ mobs in Seg runs too and ask why the tank didn't take it off them, etc.
On that note: Stage 4+ weapons in the open world are awesome! especially the horn and shield (shield at 3 but not necessary at all).
Sortie weapons have huge potential, but outside most are just lockstyles/town equips at the moment.
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Dubaiii said: »
To be honest doing g prime should be fun not a endless grind, we should be by now doing our 6th or 7th prime weapon not oh we waiting on next patch for 5 psych to reach stage 5.
I agree Stage4 should have been toned down so people could make multiple. Then gate Stage5 behind Enrage Aminion spam.
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Single path towards getting new toy not very wise at all.
I feel like Bill Murry in Ground Hog's day. Every day same ***..
I never thought I would miss mythic grind.
I feel like Bill Murry in Ground Hog's day. Every day same ***..
I never thought I would miss mythic grind.
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Dubaiii said: »
To be honest doing g prime should be fun not a endless grind, we should be by now doing our 6th or 7th prime weapon not oh we waiting on next patch for 5 psych to reach stage 5.
Wait, you think people should be finished with all of their new ultimate weapons in 4 months? That a prime weapon should take about 2 weeks to finish?
I think most people would agree that 6 months for a single weapon is excessive, but I think dividing by 12 is a bit extreme. Taking away the only carrot left in the game after 1-6 months is asking for disaster.
16 Prime weapons is 8 years to collect them all averaging 46,575 Galli per day.
I bet we see some Nerfs, extra Galli or something along those lines. This is a game built on people making REMAs on multiple Jobs.
I bet we see some Nerfs, extra Galli or something along those lines. This is a game built on people making REMAs on multiple Jobs.
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Disaster either way. Making it faster would con more into doing them longer.
At 6 months 95% will stop before 1 stage 5. 99% of the 5% who power through will stop at 1.
Make it suck less, they'll convince themselves to make multiple. (But only slightly less, they are here for the ball torture afterall, but fast ball torture, not slow, daily ball torture)
or, make the weapons better, most aren't worth the 6 months, and half aren't worth at all. Effort:Reward isn't baranced
At 6 months 95% will stop before 1 stage 5. 99% of the 5% who power through will stop at 1.
Make it suck less, they'll convince themselves to make multiple. (But only slightly less, they are here for the ball torture afterall, but fast ball torture, not slow, daily ball torture)
or, make the weapons better, most aren't worth the 6 months, and half aren't worth at all. Effort:Reward isn't baranced
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Taint said: »
16 Prime weapons is 8 years to collect them all averaging 46,575 Galli per day.
I bet we see some Nerfs, extra Galli or something along those lines. This is a game built on people making REMAs on multiple Jobs.
I bet we see some Nerfs, extra Galli or something along those lines. This is a game built on people making REMAs on multiple Jobs.
Sure, but I don't think there are a lot of people who play all 22 jobs and want all 16 prime weapons. I think numbers get thrown around all the time about how long it would take to finish them all, but that's not a realistic scenario. I think most people are after like, 2-5 at most. How many people have 20 mythic weapons? .1% of the population?
Agree though, there should be an adjustment to the process at some point.
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The issue isn't even the psyche lockout, which is just waiting for reset and soloing 15 easy nms in like 30 minutes.
The issue is you need a consistent, obedient, no-life, clique to grind with you daily for year(s), just for 3 weapons realistically. For more casual groups, years for (2) is also a likelihood. SE made earning a Prime more unrealistic time wise, than a relic weapon during prime 75 era COP FFXI.
The issue is you need a consistent, obedient, no-life, clique to grind with you daily for year(s), just for 3 weapons realistically. For more casual groups, years for (2) is also a likelihood. SE made earning a Prime more unrealistic time wise, than a relic weapon during prime 75 era COP FFXI.
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publix said: »
SE made earning a Prime more unrealistic time wise, than a relic weapon during prime 75 era COP FFXI.
I mean...if you only consider time then sure, it's much more unrealistic. Except for a relic in the 75 era you needed like 35-60 other people to commit 4 hours/week to building your relic for you, and also spend tens/hundreds of millions of gil on it, at a time when gil was incredibly more difficult to come by.
But I guess the good news is you didn't have to spend as much time in Dynamis, so it was pretty easy TBH. Wonder why we didn't see everyone traipsing around with their relic weapons back then, seeing how little time investment it took.
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Inefficiency, not difficulty. Much of OG dynamis can be summed up as chaos. Hell, there'd be runs with more time spent raising and recovering than killing.
Selfishness, terrible parties with no buffers and all dd/thf trying to steal a coin in desperation.
Lack of knowledge and cohesion. Too many individuals holding 50 coins, or starting mandaus cause they were tooooootally gonna finish it! There could have been hundreds of relics.
Selfishness, terrible parties with no buffers and all dd/thf trying to steal a coin in desperation.
Lack of knowledge and cohesion. Too many individuals holding 50 coins, or starting mandaus cause they were tooooootally gonna finish it! There could have been hundreds of relics.
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This isn't the thread to discuss the time it takes to get a prime weapon, so we should probably just cut this off at the head before it gets out of control.
I think if you told people when Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapons came out that they could have one if they spent 1hr/day on it for 6 months, they would ***a brick and those weapons would be much more common than they were.
I think if you told people when Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapons came out that they could have one if they spent 1hr/day on it for 6 months, they would ***a brick and those weapons would be much more common than they were.
The muffins requirements are just dumb, especially with empyrean gear using the same currency. You can either get that +3 on another job, or continue saving for a prime weapon.
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When they changed basement boss behavior in the last update, it makes it more viable to keep several weapons at stage 4. Prior, it didn't make as much sense since you'd permanently be locked into the entire basement being enraged. I expect most will probably stop at stage 4, then go make a different one.
Absolutely, but that was 10-15 years ago. The games population is much smaller and most people don't have the time to commit to it like they did then. Even then, though, the carrot was so far out there that for most people, it didn't even really register as a possibility for completion. That's not a bad thing when the game is thriving, but it isn't now and in this era. You can't really use what was reasonable 15 years ago as a yardstick for what is reasonable now especially given how much the game itself has changed.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I think if you told people when Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean weapons came out that they could have one if they spent 1hr/day on it for 6 months, they would ***a brick and those weapons would be much more common than they were.
Absolutely, but that was 10-15 years ago. The games population is much smaller and most people don't have the time to commit to it like they did then. Even then, though, the carrot was so far out there that for most people, it didn't even really register as a possibility for completion. That's not a bad thing when the game is thriving, but it isn't now and in this era. You can't really use what was reasonable 15 years ago as a yardstick for what is reasonable now especially given how much the game itself has changed.
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All the comparisons to prior RMEAs at their release and the connected time investment are ignoring a few major differences:
1. If one person had to miss Dynamis, your group still ran, not sat in town shouting for one person for 40+ minutes then likely giving up.
2. There was so much more content in its heyday happening around the content to build RMEAs. You didn't mind the lockout on Dynamis or Salvage when your LS was also camping HNMs, farming Sky/Sea, running Limbus and Einherjar, etc.
3. the gear associated with the content for RMEAs didn't require RMEA currency to acquire. 95% of those running old Dyna had zero aspirations for a Relic- they just wanted their Pimp Hat or the like. If you're not building a Prime, your purpose to keep doing Sortie goes byebye. +2 earrings? Ya that's no motivation at all the system is so anti-success.
I know we should move off this topic, but I really couldn't let pass that the current game environment is causing as much of the difficulty as the actual content itself causes. And that environment is completely in SE's control.
1. If one person had to miss Dynamis, your group still ran, not sat in town shouting for one person for 40+ minutes then likely giving up.
2. There was so much more content in its heyday happening around the content to build RMEAs. You didn't mind the lockout on Dynamis or Salvage when your LS was also camping HNMs, farming Sky/Sea, running Limbus and Einherjar, etc.
3. the gear associated with the content for RMEAs didn't require RMEA currency to acquire. 95% of those running old Dyna had zero aspirations for a Relic- they just wanted their Pimp Hat or the like. If you're not building a Prime, your purpose to keep doing Sortie goes byebye. +2 earrings? Ya that's no motivation at all the system is so anti-success.
I know we should move off this topic, but I really couldn't let pass that the current game environment is causing as much of the difficulty as the actual content itself causes. And that environment is completely in SE's control.
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Asura.Iamaman said: »
You can't really use what was reasonable 15 years ago as a yardstick for what is reasonable now especially given how much the game itself has changed.
I'm not the one who said:
publix said: »
SE made earning a Prime more unrealistic time wise, than a relic weapon during prime 75 era COP FFXI.
I didn't make the comparisons to the old content, but lots of other people do, and they pretend like these ultimate weapons are the hardest and most unreasonable ones.
Asura.Iamaman said: »
most people don't have the time to commit to it like they did then.
So SE should change the mechanics of the game because people are older and have children now, or something? If you don't have a consistent hour to spend on an MMO every day, maybe you shouldn't be playing an archaic grindy MMO, and should just play some F-zero 99 or something?
FFXI has always been a massive timesink, grindy MMO with tons of events to do, items to get, and improvements to be made to your character. Incremental, tiny increases that cost tons of gil, time, and effort. That's the game you've been playing all these years, it's been the design since the beginning and this should not be shocking news.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
So SE should change the mechanics of the game because people are older and have children now, or something?
They already did, aeons ago, and the game survived on those changed mechanics (much to the discontent of old timers, most of which quit FFXI as a matter of fact) until not long ago.
I mean, as ironic as it sounds, the "new" FFXI has been around more time than the "old" golden age FFXI.
Kind of a paradox put this way, but it's how things are.
So in reality it's Prime Weapons (and Master Levels?) that are sort of a return to the old glorious days of endless grind.
Yes, I find this somehow very ironic lol
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