Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

This is only stage 3 weapons who knows if there will be hidden modifiers ect later stages and the stat increases will likely benefit 1 handers more then 2 handers.

I have some doubts about a hidden effect popping up, AM potency increase possibly, could possibly get a WSD increase though that's also doubtful. Otherwise i think 4 is just allowing you to use it out of sortie and 5 will just be the final stat/dmg gains, if there were some hidden effect though, it'd likely be on stage 5 so get results in maybe a year.

The WS' themselves don't even seem that bad, it's just for 1 handers not enough to unseat the current top dmg varies WS which for a fair few is SB in optimal conditions, which everyone already agrees is a pretty busted WS to begin with.

It will be interesting to see what the Afterglow effects are going to be.

Wanna say itll be aeonics and there is no AG but who knows

Im not sure if thats interesting at all tbh. Afterglow only works on people who dont have aftermath and its usually pretty weak too. I mean other rema ones are +15 acc or +15att or +5%crit rate. meh.

The shields gave a massive 7 P/MDT for 15 seconds for the 5 people who bothered to AG them, on what was a 3 minute timer, that was something

The shield one would be pretty alright if it didn't share a buff slot with AM

It's less useful now that most people are at/near capped, specially in the MDT section and the recast on shield bash is only 30 seconds but

That kinda sucks too

Still gaining a few dmg / base stats can add a decent amount of dmg. Just adding the jump in stats from stage 3 to 4 my imperator will do ~1k more dmg at attack cap ~55.3k > 56.4k (using guestimate WS stats based on WS values I've been getting). Stage 5 would do 57.7k using same predicted WSC / FTP numbers. Adding aria maybe it could start putting up some impressive numbers. The problem is naegling savage / maxen black halo hit so hard already its hard to say its worth making the sword prime considering the massive grind.

Oh sure, i just view it in the same way emps increased as you went up once you got the ws, just with more numbers since these do have some personal boosts beyond just base stats+/weapon dmg, the weapon will do more just dont see it greatly changing where they will likely sit.

Again they arent bad, just in the WS game they arent unseating what's at the "top" which isn't unexpected since these are just another in the line of ultimate weapons, though i do find it funny that some quickly made pulse weapons can match that depending on the weapon

I do feel like they missed the mark with the 1h weapons, not by much mind you, they are still strong weapons.

They had zero issue allowing the 2h Prime weapon skills to exceed their current strongest options, which were generally on par with savage blade already.

They could of allowed the 1hs a bit more, or at the very least given them unique properties like attack bonus or something.

I suppose our view on the power of the 2h weapons is a bit skewed since we are generally limited to very short fights with them with warcry up the entire time at the moment.

Exactly. You also need to consider jobs specific boosts.

On DRK im using +96STR and +41INT absorbs for Origin which adds like 9k damage at 3000TP and Scarlet Delirium which adds like 5-45% damage. If I use that for Torcleaver (except 96 VIT) I could push it to 99k too (requires much riskier Scarlet usage for that though). If I dont use any of that and I dont have Warcry, then Origin numbers looks way lower, unless I hold TP a lot.
Getting to 2000+ TP on Foenaria isnt exactly that fast though. In sheet Im not even getting DPS increase from holding to 2000+. Without Warcry Im also getting almost identical DPS as with R15 Caladbolg. Only with Warcry Foenaria pulls ahead, because WS damage is so high, that added white damage from Calad AM3 falls back a little. Ofc in solo situation Foenaria self SC slightly better (assuming Fragmentation isnt resisted) and SC damage is based on WS damage, so it's again slightly stronger on Foenaria.
What Im trying to say is that it's kinda DRK (with self buffs and natural pdif) and Warcry that makes those WSs that strong, it's not WS itself.

Im pretty sure it's a similar case for DRG and Polearm. +33% multiplier for WS damage is simply huge. It pushes WS normally doing 75k to 99k.

If you consider job specific gear/JA some 1h weapon arent necessarily that bad. Take DNC for example. Climactic is pushing Ruthless Strike to well over 99k damage at attack cap, which means it will do 99k even with mediocre pdif or even if mob has significant DT. Building flourish will also push Ruthless a lot, so if you SC with someone for example and 1sec JA delay is not a problem, than +20%WSD and +25% attack is significant boost. Centovente and Moonshade also puts you at minimum 2250 effective TP, which means without warcry you wont be that far or sometimes you will be ahead of 2h Prime WSs.

Another factor is Aria. Aria added to Foenaria will ofc push it even more, BUT that's assuming you can reach that pdif. Without aria Foenaria already has massive PDL cap with just base + accessories you would use anyway. If you add Aria even at stage 3, we are talking about pdif cap of 6.48 on Origin and that with dropping Empy+3 head for Nyame and Ephramad's for Cornelia, so only having +44%PDL. It means not even 9999 attack will cap you unless you lower mob's def to at least ~1458 def. Now imagine next stage of Aria or adding Soul Voice...

DNC on the other hand even with Ephramad, having +52%PDL, will only have cap of 5.244, while providing unique -24% def debuff and def down is way more effective than +attack% self buffs, since you get additive +attack% buffs from support (Chaos,Fury) and Geo buffs aren't nerfed like debuffs.

Fun fact, on capped attack BLU with R15 Tizona/Thibron and SV Aria and Warcry, Im getting 99k avg Expiacion. That's with only 4.79 pdif cap (and remember BLU has both attack traits and self buff 20% attack from spell). All this with AM3 giving very high WS frequency.

So the weapons are the way they are because 1h weapons can offhand a +1000tp weapon, while 2h can't.

TP gain offhanding those level 99 weapons with no acc, store tp or multiattack is atrocious... It still wins most of the time because tp scaling is so grossly unbalanced in this game but it's really not that far off from BiS i119 options.

TP Bonus on Aeonics really should have worked in the offhand...

Scarlet is great but it's not something that can be "timed" reliably. I use it everytime it's up but I hope people aren't wasting too much time sitting on it waiting for some big tp move. With a solid tank, it might a bit too even take damage.


Trash DRKs on this forum will not believe this is possible. Hint: Don't forget to /DRG for max throughput.


Savage is the same, all high scale tp ws have this problem. TP Bonus is so valuable because tp scaling is so unbalanced now.


Been saying it for weeks, the sheep here are blind. It's a tough pill to swallow to lose ~50 more hits per every 100 attack rounds between Liberator or SU5 path B just to get maybe ~20% more dmg on WS.


It's not broken, it's balanced. These weapons are on par with other REMA options. The value is in the survivability with the HP return which imo means less time in 5/5 sakpata which hurts dps and more time in BiS tp gain sets.



I've been sitting on a 1,000,000+ gally for a while, still don't know what I want to make... Shield, Staff or Scythe are my options.

Depends on the job.
DNC, RDM and BLU has usually no problem with acc with the same buffs as regular DRK, WAR, SAM etc., especially on bosses (you have time for debuffs), so TP gain is barely worse than with 119. Also RDM doesn't really care about ma/stp from offhand, because Temper II provides massive MA and rest of the gear massive stP. For BLU it's a problem, that is solved by Tizona's AM3, which is another reason Prime isn't really useful for BLU. DNC can Sabre Dance for MA if he is only DDing.
NIN and THF could have some issue on more evasive enemies (at least after Feint wears off). Part of the reason Gleti's offhand was competitive for Twashtar THF is also white damage on THF with Twashtar AM3. Holding TP with TwashtarAM3/Gleti's on THF in set balanced around white damage and tp gain isn't that much of sacrifice, but with Prime it's much worse.
BST might have acc issues especially if fighting other target than pet, but BST has Ikenga's Axe now, which is best of both worlds anyway.

Its very easy in Sortie though with most of the bosses doing AoE all the time. With my Scarlet set I can easily force at least safe 600 damage hit even from initial aggro and that gives me +15% damage for next 110 sec, which is for the whole fight.


I would disagree here. Sakpata defensively is not only for DT, but mainly for meva to avoid all the shitty full potency debuffs. Also with enough attack Sakapta R30 is also simply mostly bis for damage as TP set. For Caladbolg especially the only Sakapta's feet are something you could consider swapping to something else for more DPS, but thats barely. The mix of DA and PDL is very strong for White damage and still provide very good TP gain. It's the ideal balance for Caladbolg. 3/5 pieces also has another very valuable stat like DA damage on head, stp on hands and crit rate on body. Also lets not forget about 23% subtle blow, which can cap SB alongside Auspice from WHM and additional defensive stats beside DT/meva, like 5% counter, 15% resist all, Cure potency received 10%. I really don't see a reason to ever take Sakpata's off, just to get at best 2% DPS, but risk all the debuffs hitting you. Getting paralyzed twice or getting stunned for 4 more sec is far more DPS loss than you could regain by using something else than Sakpata.

For people thinking WS damage is boosted in Sortie
No it isn't.


Also the highest Blitz I have in log looks like in line with other 1h Prime WS damage reported earlier.

Mischief tested AM with Kaustra, to separate MAB and MDMG. I calculated it to be +30MAB. Mishcief guess mdmg is also +30 (it was very late for them, so no test were done to support that +30mdmg yet).

Now if you mean any random damage spikes on nukes (like hidden Magic crit hit rate II), I don't think Mischief noticed anything like that.

Did they mention the final stage requirements?

Its in the other thread

5M Galli, 15 psyche, 4 stones

Nice to see they kept they hidden dmg proc

Is octahedrite a separate drop?
I have so much of it, I hope it isn't taking a drop slot

Multiple different stones can drop from same objective, separate drops looks like.

Tentatively putting Opashoro AM3 (stage 4 at least) as MAB+30 Magic Damage+50 after playing around with it a bit. Haven't tested SMN, but I would assume it's the same amount for Avatars. There is no difference in duration between stage 3 and stage 4 Aftermaths.

Without AM3, stage 4 Opashoro/Enki Strap beats R30 Bunzi's/Ammurapi for T1-4 nukes and slightly loses at T5 and above. With AM3 up, Opashoro wins pretty solidly at all tiers.

I came back to the game recently after seeing this weapon added as I mostly just play Sch. I'm real happy to know it's this strong :) thanks for testing Mischief

Is there the sense that the AM3 from Opashoro was 30 MAB & 30 mDMG at stage 3 and went to 30&50 at stage 4? Or was it probably 30&50 all along?

Took 2 steps back and got the prime gkt (I got the staff earlier). Sharing some of the damage on gkt and gsword. I forgot to have the TP values announced. Will have that set up the next time I can go sam.

8/9 boss run. Jobs war, sam, cor, brd, whm, rdm

Total boss filtered parse was
sam 3527157 dmg, 35.6%
war 2342010dmg, 23.5%
rdm 1742114 dmg, 17.5%
cor 1431961 dmg, 14.4%
brd 981968 dmg, 9.9%

gartell 46 sec fight
distract, dia, lightshot, box step, ageha
brd buffs: sv aria, min, min, hm, mad.
aita 35 sec fight
same debuffs
brd buffs: sv aria, min, min, march, march.

Terrible Hot Take I had while showering after work. Prime Sword's DT 10 makes it so you TP and WS at 50 DT on RDM in your best sets so you don't ever need a DT toggle for engaged or a WS if it's a Nyame WS. Plus technically you have more DT all the time when casting (cures more than anything else).

Further, I play with a person who is either a BLU or DNC when we're going physical. Expiacion > Prime > Prime > Expiacion or Pyrrhic Kleos > Prime > Prime > Rudra is a 4 step opener that makes Dark (Double with another Rudra). You can also ping pong Prime with Pyrrhic Kleos or Expiacion infinitely with level 1 SC properties. The SC properties are still not what I want, but a lot less borked then I thought.

Simon is saying he seen BLU hit cap on basement bosses with Tizona R15 with Aria and DPS buffs. I can't see BLU wanting this. But as I am mainly RDM I can finally see the use. RDM is PDL starved anyways so it's not the worst idea. Plus my PLD will have a cool Refresh Idle piece if I stupidly decide on the Sword.