After today's run I'd say Maru Kala (H2H) is pretty much identical to the Katana post above. 1000-2000 TP was around 40k, while 3000 TP was pretty consistent 60k with very similar set that I posted a page back.
Overall Maru Kala appears to be worse than Victory Smite, except that the weapon is pretty good at boosting the damage of Victory Smite thanks to the Crit Rate and PDL aftermath.
I don't think its base stats put it ahead of Verethragna, but maybe at higher stages???
On the plus adding a strong distortion option really did open up monk skill chains. An easy 4 step: Maru Kala > Shijin Spiral > Smite > Smite is actually better than previous options we had. Using Maru Kala as a skill chain option or to put up AM felt like the right way to use it, it's not designed to replace anything we had before. Spamming it is probably not the right way to use it.
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Probably have enough test set data to get a general idea of fTP but not enough to get a 100% number.
Not really. You changed 6 dex to Fotia on WS with DEX WSC. Can't really tell how much the damage drop because of that and how much it raises from Fotia.
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I'll run these after I'm done with my nightly duties if no one else does it first.
The damage ranges are nice. But I can't reconcile the two sets of 'WSD gear' and the 'base set' (first and last data sets), so I don't think I have your stats right for the base set with your tests maybe?
Your gearset shows Heishi offhand in the last data batch, but the stat image shows Kunimitsu. I've removed kunimitsu's stats from that set but still can't reconcile the numbers.
I feel like your damage spread here should be enough to narrow down some parameters, I just can't seem to get there. Hopefully I can spend my ruspix soon to add to this.
Test set used Heishi to remove wsd from the equation and just get a little bit of store tp instead. Forgot to switch it out for that screenshot, whoopsies. Will redocument that later when I get to the pc.
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Odin.Demhar said: »
Updated my previous post.
Enmity is not fixed on Sarv.
If the enmity was fixed on Sarv, I wouldn't pull hate from EV on the first 99k WS with HS25 which puts me at -50 enmity on Abject Obdella.
Enmity is not fixed on Sarv.
If the enmity was fixed on Sarv, I wouldn't pull hate from EV on the first 99k WS with HS25 which puts me at -50 enmity on Abject Obdella.
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ty bb. figured this weapon would get me killed faster.
Glad it lets me bypass the pain of building gandiva on my return to XI.
Another question is if dying on RNG wouldnt be a better solution overall on Arebati shooting method? You lose whole hate and there is 0 downside of shooting with weakened status. You would only get 4 non SV songs, you would need to rebuild HV stacks and you would need new rolls. If the damage is like 50% higher though(lets say 20% with non SV songs), it could still easily be worth ~1min downtime.
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I am 99% sure we tried that and dying did not reset hate for our RNG. Some wonky ***in there.
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Serjero said: »
Yes let's just not use one of the best abilities RNG has gotten and lower overall damage output while feeding TP to one of the most dangerous adds in the Gaol fights to use a shiny new weapon that will perform worse than just using either Empyrean options or Anni.
What are you talking about? What ability? Hover Shot? Hover shot stacks from WSs too. You will be capped after doing 25 Sarvs. Advantage is, you can easily move 1+ yalm and melee in the same time. Overall DPS would be way higher, because TP gain/WS frequency is way higher with Kraken Club. Also Raaz is dangerous, but not for Duban PLD.
You can see this strategy below and with I think 5 people hitting Raaz, PLD has no problems at all tanking both adds and curing everyone too. They use COR, WAR, BRD, BST, PLD, GEO but I see no reasons why WAR couldn't be RNG in this setup. Not like RNG cant tank Arebati's auto attack with Malignance/Nyame (it will probably even have more DEF than WAR considering Berserk on WAR).
They also took it down from 75% to 0% with 1min remaining on KI2, while shooting method usually assume getting Arebati to at least 64% on KI1.
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Ranoutofspace said: »
I am 99% sure we tried that and dying did not reset hate for our RNG. Some wonky ***in there.
That said, there are also some exceptions to this related to mobs with linked or shared hate. And the weird enmity mechanics for the NM/adds might qualify for that. I haven't personally tested this case, but it's quite possible dying even while being the NM's direct target might not reset hate in Gaol with adds present.
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SimonSes said: »
Advantage is, you can easily move 1+ yalm and melee in the same time
No, they don't, ignore me.
What martel said. This was added when they added the penalty for dying x2 on ranger.
Basicaclly SE didnt approve of zombie & trust cheeze methods
Also dying x2 has a severe penalty for rng, you're useless until it wears ALL shots will wiff after second death until unweakened.
Basicaclly SE didnt approve of zombie & trust cheeze methods
Also dying x2 has a severe penalty for rng, you're useless until it wears ALL shots will wiff after second death until unweakened.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Katana sucks and I want my Galli back
-ML18 NIN/DNC (to prevent trait interference from subjob)
-Capped attack (Fury, Frailty, Chaos, Dia III, Box Step 5, Red Curry Bun)
-Abject Acuex used for every test, stat down and drown removed before every WS
3000TP w/ TP Bonus -> WSD swaps and Kunimitsu offhand:
1000~2000TP w/ TP Bonus Offhand:
Probably have enough test set data to get a general idea of fTP but not enough to get a 100% number.
I'll run these after I'm done with my nightly duties if no one else does it first.
-ML18 NIN/DNC (to prevent trait interference from subjob)
-Capped attack (Fury, Frailty, Chaos, Dia III, Box Step 5, Red Curry Bun)
-Abject Acuex used for every test, stat down and drown removed before every WS
3000TP w/ TP Bonus -> WSD swaps and Kunimitsu offhand:
1000~2000TP w/ TP Bonus Offhand:
Probably have enough test set data to get a general idea of fTP but not enough to get a 100% number.
I'll run these after I'm done with my nightly duties if no one else does it first.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Asura.Bynebill said: »
Acuex take 12.5% reduced slashing damage.
Even still, considerably weaker than the 2h weapon skills, seems to be a common trait with the 1hs.
Even still, considerably weaker than the 2h weapon skills, seems to be a common trait with the 1hs.
Basically in this case, you're choosing between a slightly stronger Kikoku/worse Naegling and any of the 2h weapons/horn. Self SC is cool and all but NIN didn't have trouble making Radiance before, and spamming the same WS in a row doesn't work so well on the hard stuff. For weaker things like Sheol I'd rather just oneshot with Savage Blade or Hybrids.
I'll basically be resetting my progress today and start working on a great katana.
Why does SE hate Ninja?
It isn't really NIN specific this time. All of the 1h weapons are pretty unfortunate (besides dagger but even then that's pretty borderline). I guess club might be good? (lol)
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
It isn't really NIN specific this time. All of the 1h weapons are pretty unfortunate (besides dagger but even then that's pretty borderline). I guess club might be good? (lol)
I guess that depends on your definition of good but axe/katana/sword all look to be in the same boat. Technically none of these are bad but they all have the unfair competition of Savage Blade/Decimation and none of them compete with the craziness of these prime 2h ws, however that does seem to be less about the ws themselves and more about the jobs that can use them. A ratio capped DRK or WAR will do more dmg than a ratio capped NIN or BST.
Comparing Simon's numbers for Origin to the ones I'm finding for Zesho Meppo, the ws itself isn't bad by comparison. DRK just hits harder in general.
Comparing Simon's numbers for Origin to the ones I'm finding for Zesho Meppo, the ws itself isn't bad by comparison. DRK just hits harder in general.
Should've just made Zessho Meppo a hybrid if they can't design a worthwhile physical WS...
Were there testing numbers for Axe? Not that I doubt it follows suit with the other disappointing 1Hers.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I guess that depends on your definition of good but axe/katana/sword all look to be in the same boat.
Were there testing numbers for Axe? Not that I doubt it follows suit with the other disappointing 1Hers.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I guess that depends on your definition of good but axe/katana/sword all look to be in the same boat. Technically none of these are bad but they all have the unfair competition of Savage Blade/Decimation and none of them compete with the craziness of these prime 2h ws, however that does seem to be less about the ws themselves and more about the jobs that can use them. A ratio capped DRK or WAR will do more dmg than a ratio capped NIN or BST.
Comparing Simon's numbers for Origin to the ones I'm finding for Zesho Meppo, the ws itself isn't bad by comparison. DRK just hits harder in general.
Comparing Simon's numbers for Origin to the ones I'm finding for Zesho Meppo, the ws itself isn't bad by comparison. DRK just hits harder in general.
You need to remember about tp bonus too.
Normally with WAR in party and warcry being up almost whole fight Origin will do 80k+, but drop the warcry and it will do 50k if you want to spam it. If you sub tp bonus and spam, dagger will do 60k+
Only SAM can probably consistently reach tp threshold to reach like 65k+ at the same time as some 1h weapons can reach 1k+ TP.
Also there is one factor for job like BLU, THF or RDM. They have very low pdl in gear (nothing in JSE beside head for THF), which means Aria will be a huge boost to them. That being said it will boost existing options too. Maybe it's not that bad though, because you will have few strong options with different SC properties.
Edit: also GKT damage seems to be somewhere between 1h and 2h at 3000tp, which would further suggest it's balanced around being able to do around the same damage if you "spam" without warcry. More than likely they did it by mistake though XD
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Asura.Disclai said: »
Should've just made Zessho Meppo a hybrid if they can't design a worthwhile physical WS...
Were there testing numbers for Axe? Not that I doubt it follows suit with the other disappointing 1Hers.
Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I guess that depends on your definition of good but axe/katana/sword all look to be in the same boat.
Were there testing numbers for Axe? Not that I doubt it follows suit with the other disappointing 1Hers.
I have access to numbers for axe but not posted anything about it yet. It is very close to katana performance wise though.
SimonSes said: »
Also there is one factor for job like BLU, THF or RDM. They have very low pdl in gear (nothing in JSE beside head for THF), which means Aria will be a huge boost to them. That being said it will boost existing options too. Maybe it's not that bad though, because you will have few strong options with different SC properties.
Edit: also GKT damage seems to be somewhere between 1h and 2h at 3000tp, which would further suggest it's balanced around being able to do around the same damage if you "spam" without warcry. More than likely they did it by mistake though XD
Edit: also GKT damage seems to be somewhere between 1h and 2h at 3000tp, which would further suggest it's balanced around being able to do around the same damage if you "spam" without warcry. More than likely they did it by mistake though XD
GKT has lower natural cap than other 2h options so that lines up. H2H not being similar to GKT on the other hand is fairly bs.
THF getting good light is nice when Rudra Rudra's heals evil things. There hasn't been real content to let THF/DRG flex. As THF/WAR it is definitely a step behind.
The sword is nothing any of the jobs on it want so there isn't a reason to go into it unless they change things on stage 4 or 5.
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
The sword is nothing any of the jobs on it want so there isn't a reason to go into it unless they change things on stage 4 or 5.
When it was Liquefaction/Impaction/Fragmentation it would of been a great benefit to multi-step SC, something Sword desperately needs. Now that it's detonation/compression/distortion it's very meh. Like I was hoping for Imperator -> Imperator -> Savage -> CDC, now it's just single darkness instead of double light.
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
I wouldn't mind wasting a run if you guys have exact tests in mind that would be worth doing. I got sword / gun / horn / gaxe stage 3 on my mules.
Would love to see more gun testing! And ranged weps are easier to test. I would be very suprised if its weaker than the bow but they might have made it this way considering COR.
Updated the front page with the most recent info - thanks for sharing all!
Looks like we are just awaiting some insight into axe and club then we have seen them all (axe reported to effect pet lvl in offhand, but have not seen ws numbers anywhere), but of course would love to see more testing as it becomes available.
I've been playing with GK and horn the past week and the horn feels like the most impactful so far (if you can make use of the PDL obviously) - seeing lots of 99k Fudos with masa on basement bosses.
Looks like we are just awaiting some insight into axe and club then we have seen them all (axe reported to effect pet lvl in offhand, but have not seen ws numbers anywhere), but of course would love to see more testing as it becomes available.
I've been playing with GK and horn the past week and the horn feels like the most impactful so far (if you can make use of the PDL obviously) - seeing lots of 99k Fudos with masa on basement bosses.
Shiva.Flowen said: »
I've been playing with GK and horn the past week and the horn feels like the most impactful so far (if you can make use of the PDL obviously) - seeing lots of 99k Fudos with masa on basement bosses.
SV Aria or Yaegasumi?
SimonSes said: »
Shiva.Flowen said: »
I've been playing with GK and horn the past week and the horn feels like the most impactful so far (if you can make use of the PDL obviously) - seeing lots of 99k Fudos with masa on basement bosses.
SV Aria or Yaegasumi?
This is with SV Aria, and yaeg is definately resulting in some of the 99ks, but we always yaeg some of these bosses and I have never seen multiple 99k fudos.
Yeagasumi Fudo should easily go up to 99k if you can make a 70k without it. With SV Aria it just requires less stacks.
I agree that Aria will turn some non Prime WSs to rival Primes with easy tho. I mean I dont have Aria and I did some 70k+ Black Halos on RDM and Expiacion on BLU breaks 70k on regular basis. Aria is especially strong on jobs with low pDIF caps and without PDL in JSE neck/earring. SV aria Expiacion will do 90k+ and thats while spammed with /Thibron.
I agree that Aria will turn some non Prime WSs to rival Primes with easy tho. I mean I dont have Aria and I did some 70k+ Black Halos on RDM and Expiacion on BLU breaks 70k on regular basis. Aria is especially strong on jobs with low pDIF caps and without PDL in JSE neck/earring. SV aria Expiacion will do 90k+ and thats while spammed with /Thibron.
SimonSes said: »
Aria is especially strong on jobs with low pDIF caps and without PDL in JSE neck/earring. SV aria Expiacion will do 90k+ and thats while spammed with /Thibron.
Exactly, horn will make a lot of already high performing weps/ws even better which is why I feel it's the most impactful. At least 1-handers can enjoy primes somehow!
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