Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
Zekky: We're not saying PLD is a DD, we're saying PLD can and should DD for hate (ie not talking about meripo situations). There's a difference.
No. =I
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Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Zekky: We're not saying PLD is a DD, we're saying PLD can and should DD for hate (ie not talking about meripo situations). There's a difference. No. =I Ramuh.Haseyo said: At least make it HQ D; Shiva.Daimos said: Ramuh.Haseyo said: Ragnarok.Anye said: I DD in this. :O You has a better chance getting +1 Dusk D: just let it die ppl, they set up us the bomb here.
Asura.Zekky said: No. =I Yes :| i would recommend cerberus mantle instead of amemet mantle,it has almost the same effects with fire resist and enmity
Kujata.Argettio said: Diabolos.Sovereign said: Atonement, as you may know, requires absolutely zero melee or DD equipement to be effective, thus allowing you to maintain your defensive gear.
This is wrong... you need a TP build. And TP build for PLD is the same as a TP build for any DD. Edit: Diabolos.Sovereign said: And a Joyuese is more than sufficient for Atonement spam on HNMs. You dont need an entire gear set for it... lol What? A skill with 0 acc is enough to build TP on an HNM? Because your sword some times attacks twice? Not even close Going a bit to the side but, what do you expect to wear Full DD set for HNMing? When you are getting hit and evading like 0 hits -.- 3 shadows go fast. You have to recast almost constantly. My idle gear has a considerable amount of enmity cuz there are times when I can't gear swap cuz I need cures. Ppl think you can have like 7 gear swaps More than 3 becomes highly ineffective. You need to get cured, hasted, refreshed, phalanxed... etc. Shield Mastery helps a lot for TPing, cuz you will get hit, if the mob is hard enough. And sacrificing HP gear for hitting more idk if it's hate effective, cuz how many of those hits will be for 0?. And the loss of HP is noticeable on lost enmity per hit taken All this discussion is very but very very circumstantial Garuda.Ishkur said: Stuff Galka <3 Come on MSN! Garuda.Wooooodum said: Garuda.Ishkur said: Stuff Galka <3 Come on MSN! Yeah I got on rather late on the capes forum! Stupid univesity Garuda.Ishkur said: Going a bit to the side but, what do you expect to wear Full DD set for HNMing?
When you are getting hit and evading like 0 hits -.- 3 shadows go fast. You have to recast almost constantly. My idle gear has a considerable amount of enmity cuz there are times when I can't gear swap cuz I need cures. If you need that many cures, you're probably doing it wrong or for some reason the mob isn't elegied/slow'd <_< It is very easy and practical to full DD HNM... Quote: Ppl think you can have like 7 gear swaps
More than 3 becomes highly ineffective. You need to get cured, hasted, refreshed, phalanxed... etc. Blinkmenot or <stpc>. Next. Quote: Shield Mastery helps a lot for TPing, cuz you will get hit, if the mob is hard enough. And sacrificing HP gear for hitting more idk if it's hate effective, cuz how many of those hits will be for 0?. And the loss of HP is noticeable on lost enmity per hit taken We're not sacrificing max HP gear since we macro in defensive gear when being hit (a very predictable scenario... when shadows = 0 or when shadows = 1 with a DA mob sometimes). Max HP determines CE lost upon taking a hit, not currenttak. You shouldn't be taking enough damage for the current HP difference between the sets to matter. Quote: All this discussion is very but very very circumstantial Not at all <_< if you're having trouble switching between gear so much, the problem lies in your reflexes/judgment... not the concept as a whole. If your mages suck too much to give you buffs while blinking a lot, that is THEIR problem. If you're dying you'll tend to stay stationary in a defensive/reduction set anyway so ... There are literally no significant disadvantages to blinking a lot and maximisation. Bahamut.Raenryong said: Blinkmenot or <stpc>. Next. not everyone plays on PC and not everyone uses windower even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. i find that i live longer in a fight by doing non visable gear swaps and have full time set gear that will not cause me to blink, only time i do blink is when i use Sentinel or rampart, any other gear swaps i do is on slots that will not cause me to blink. i am just conciderate to others who do not have tools like blinkmenot. saying that everyone is different and gears differently dependant to what they have, personally i dont have boxers yet and i wont get an ACC back piece. most of you think Atonement is the answer to everything, i dont have atonement and i can tank efficiently against HNMs like Khimaira, Cerb, Dark Ixion etc. another thing tanking something like Khimaira, you wont be WSing alot since it reduces ya TP to 0 alot. last thing, eveyone has thier own tanking style, some DD some dont, its thier choice, if they can do thier job then who the **** cares. I read about half a sentence of this entire thread, but <stpt> and <stal> solve blinking issues. The target is in your party/alliance menu rather than over the actual players, so blinking doesn't effect it.
I only learnt of this recently myself. Seraph.Darkvision said: not everyone plays on PC and not everyone uses windower even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. I know all the RDMs and WHMs in my LS use them (and, no, we're not even an 'endgame' LS), and I personally use them for PLD, RDM, SCH, and BRD. <stal> and <stpt> are probably two of the best addition to FFXI's game mechanism in the last few years! Seraph.Darkvision said: most of you think Atonement is the answer to everything, i dont have atonement and i can tank efficiently against HNMs like Khimaira, Cerb, Dark Ixion etc. Can replace this logic for DDs/mages too and then you'll see the flaw in it; "most people think Byakko's Haidate are the ultimate leg piece for melees that can equip them. I don't have them and I can DD efficiently against ~" Nobody's saying that no Atonement = crappy Paladin, but utilising it does make you better. To deny this is pointless. It's like saying that x + y = x. Err, no. y isn't 0. Quote: another thing tanking something like Khimaira, you wont be WSing alot since it reduces ya TP to 0 alot. Khimaira is one of the biggest examples of where Atonement is fairly futile :p Hydra too! :D
But yeah, what raen said is spot on Gilgamesh.Ittoryu
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ame +1 is a solid piece for pld while tanking in aht urgan areas. HBM isn't going to do you much good, when PLD gets access to Atonement, TP in traditional DD gear (haste/acc) and ws in enmity gear.
Kujata.Infinian said: just to make sure... Amemet 1 is a good back piece for Pld right? i see a lot of plds with em Cerberus Mantle (+1) NQ isnt very expensive these days. PLD isnt/never will/nor should be DDing PLD doesnt need to do dmg to get hate. pld turtle FTW
Quote: not everyone plays on PC and not everyone uses windower even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. i idle in my foragers mantle for tp enmity actions in resentment ichi/ni in boxer's cure kit gigant Seraph.Darkvision said: even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. Seriously, it's lazier to use the macros than not... there is zero excuse for the use of manual selection over command targeting. If you're typing out the command including the name you won't lose targeting either, so that's irrelevant. Inputs that go around blinking are more efficient and effective than manual selection. Period. End of discussion. Asura.Elvaton said: PLD isnt/never will/nor should be DDing PLD doesnt need to do dmg to get hate. pld turtle FTW Nah, I chuckled a bit. Nonetheless, there are very few fights where a non-engaged Paladin will outperform other tank jobs. One day, in FFXIX Online, there will be sensors on top of our monitors that track eye movements, and we'll be able to just look at a character on our screen to select it.
Forsrs. edit: Also, graphics will be so amazing by then, we'll be able to watch our characters quickly take off/put on equipment so they don't do this "blinking" ***. nin/drk is a better tank anyways. Especially w/o atonement
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Seraph.Darkvision said: even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. Asura.Elvaton said: PLD isnt/never will/nor should be DDing PLD doesnt need to do dmg to get hate. pld turtle FTW Asura.Elvaton said: PLD isnt/never will/nor should be DDing PLD doesnt need to do dmg to get hate. pld turtle FTW Some of us have to tank for good DDs :( Semi off topic, but all the people talking about how good <stpt> and <stal> are, how long have you been playing mage jobs? Using F keys for me is pure reflex by now and I refuse to use those two crappy macros until the fix them to work with f keys. (And I'm generally fine with tanks blinking even using <stpc> and no blinkmenot)
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Seraph.Darkvision said: even if you use <stpc> if a PLD blinks before you can evenn start casting a cure or what ever (if your a mage) then your target is gonna be lost so you have to retarget the tank. Damn guy above me beat to it /sigh. Either way I'm usually using F keys to target something else even while I'm still casting the previous spell and even while that maccro still has stuff left to do. And at the same time scrolling thru my maccros to whatever I'm gunna cast next sometimes on the next set up or down. Fenrir.Fizzycandy
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Alexander.Zayo said: @Enternius Never touched that trash game, I dont even own a PC, but sounds like you know a thing or two about it. lol I just skimmed over because of all the obvious confusion, but this sums it up pretty well.
Quote: Levelling: Breath Mantle => High Breath Mantle => Amemet +1 (95% of the time). Endgame: Enmity: Cerb +1 > Toreador's > Valor etc Atonement TPing: Cuchulain's > Cerberus +1 > Cerberus etc. Physical Damage Mitigation: Shadow Mantle > Boxer's Mantle > Valor Cape Magical Damage Mitigation: Resentment Cape > Lamia Mantle +1 (unless -MDT is capped, then Lamia Mantle +1 > all) HP: Gigant Mantle Err, anything else a Paladin might need? I might have forgotten a couple there, and I'm ignoring augmented options. |
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