which path for magic spells?
MAB or MACC+FC?
Nibiru Cudgel Path
Nibiru Cudgel Path
MAB. If your FC set isn’t complete then maybe one with FC. You can switch paths on these whenever you like for free though.
I replaced Nibiru Cudgelx2 with Bunzi Rod (unaugmented) and Septopic+1 (augmented) ....never looked back.
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Even if you don't have access to Bunzi + Septopic+1 yet, using the ambuscade club (Maxentius) + ambuscade sword (Naegling), or ambuscade club (Maxentius) + ambuscade club stage -1 (Kaja Rod) is still better than Nibirus - the other options have much higher magic acc and magic damage.
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Felgarr said: »
I replaced Nibiru Cudgelx2 with Bunzi Rod (unaugmented) and Septopic+1 (augmented) ....never looked back.
Septoptic +1 better than Maxentius? The magic damage difference is huge. I can make one to test if you haven't already.
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Maxentius bunzi combo way ahead of septotic
Cerberus.Darkvlade said: »
Maxentius bunzi combo way ahead of septotic
Maybe I'm wrong, but how so? This is assumes Septoptic+1 is augmented and Bunzi is not. (Parenthesis account for Bunzi augments, which are kind of miniscule).
Bunzi/Septoptic+1 has the most MAB of the 3 combinations by quite a bit.
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Magic damage helps BLU spells a ton. Especially the spammable spells like Subduction.
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Very small sample size I know. I did about 20 casts of Subduction and Tenebral Crush solo, against Aern mobs in Escha-Ruan and only saw lots of over-lapping damage numbers. Subduction varied within ~300 damage usually with a range of ~7200-7700 damage. Tenebral Crush varied from ~14500-16000 damage.
I know this anecdotal and not really scientific, but I couldn't draw a conclusion. :(
Edit: Personally, I'm leaning towards Bunzi/Septopic+1, despite the damage not being too conclusive ...because of HP/MP+90 is nice to idle in, and Conserve MP are nice given the cost of some AoE BLU spells.
I know this anecdotal and not really scientific, but I couldn't draw a conclusion. :(
Edit: Personally, I'm leaning towards Bunzi/Septopic+1, despite the damage not being too conclusive ...because of HP/MP+90 is nice to idle in, and Conserve MP are nice given the cost of some AoE BLU spells.
That 16000 on tenebral looks very much like a day / weather proc, as it is 10% over your base 14500
I use maxentius / Bunzi because.... well, because I have that laying around. And Maxentius gives me flexibility if I need to melee something with Black Halo....
I use maxentius / Bunzi because.... well, because I have that laying around. And Maxentius gives me flexibility if I need to melee something with Black Halo....
Felgarr said: »
Bunzi/Septoptic+1 has the most MAB of the 3 combinations by quite a bit.
The difference intelligence and magic damage is noteworthy. It's not just about MAB. Blue spells get their damage increased by all three, especially mdmg. Try spectral floe instead with the tests. I recall someone in the blue world (Stamos?) Doing in-depth tests between all the nuke clubs and it was shown that mdmg/INT mage a good bit of difference
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Felgarr said: »
Very small sample size I know. I did about 20 casts of Subduction and Tenebral Crush solo, against Aern mobs in Escha-Ruan and only saw lots of over-lapping damage numbers. Subduction varied within ~300 damage usually with a range of ~7200-7700 damage. Tenebral Crush varied from ~14500-16000 damage.
I know this anecdotal and not really scientific, but I couldn't draw a conclusion. :(
Edit: Personally, I'm leaning towards Bunzi/Septopic+1, despite the damage not being too conclusive ...because of HP/MP+90 is nice to idle in, and Conserve MP are nice given the cost of some AoE BLU spells.
I know this anecdotal and not really scientific, but I couldn't draw a conclusion. :(
Edit: Personally, I'm leaning towards Bunzi/Septopic+1, despite the damage not being too conclusive ...because of HP/MP+90 is nice to idle in, and Conserve MP are nice given the cost of some AoE BLU spells.
You need to test against same mob, same level and same job. Because different targets will have different INT otherwise and dINT will screw your result.
I don't have Septoptic +1, but Maxentius has more INT, MND, even CHR, less MAB, but more MDMG (like way more), and more magic accuracy. Bunzi Rod is also stronger than Septoptic +1, even without augments. Not to mention, they both have physical stats (accuracy, attack, that massive black halo damage).
Black Halo is your go to in Odyssey when you're facing enemies (like Lamia) that resist slashing. It's part of your utility in there. You can do some nice numbers with black halo, or you can do realmrazer > black halo > light with it (also works the other way around, but black halo is the stronger closer). And with nuking, I can't see Septoptic +1 outdamaging Maxentius or Bunzi Rod as your other weapon. MAB isn't the end all be all of nuking. Magic damage, base stats, magic accuracy all play a part.
It's absolutely conclusive that the damage of septoptic +1 is inferior when you're missing base stats, magic damage, AND magic accuracy. Especially on higher level enemies. With odyssea and ambu clubs, and my gear, I can 2 shot aerns, sharks, gargs, etc. in escha sky with subduction alone. With any other spell (spectral flow, tenebral crush, etc.), it's overkill 1 shot. Haven't cleaved in Reisenjima in a long *** time, maybe I should go down there just to see what I can do with improved gear.
Black Halo is your go to in Odyssey when you're facing enemies (like Lamia) that resist slashing. It's part of your utility in there. You can do some nice numbers with black halo, or you can do realmrazer > black halo > light with it (also works the other way around, but black halo is the stronger closer). And with nuking, I can't see Septoptic +1 outdamaging Maxentius or Bunzi Rod as your other weapon. MAB isn't the end all be all of nuking. Magic damage, base stats, magic accuracy all play a part.
It's absolutely conclusive that the damage of septoptic +1 is inferior when you're missing base stats, magic damage, AND magic accuracy. Especially on higher level enemies. With odyssea and ambu clubs, and my gear, I can 2 shot aerns, sharks, gargs, etc. in escha sky with subduction alone. With any other spell (spectral flow, tenebral crush, etc.), it's overkill 1 shot. Haven't cleaved in Reisenjima in a long *** time, maybe I should go down there just to see what I can do with improved gear.
I mean why we even have this discussion. Septoptic was tested against kaja club. Just go see the results. Against Maxentius and with bunzi the result for Septoptic will be even worse, because Maxentius is obviously stronger than Kaja and Bunzi adds much more mab than Maxentius as 2nd weapon.
Edit:
Edit:
Bismarck.Rwolf said: »
Even though we can discern from earlier Nibiru Cudgel vs Kaja Rod offhand testing. I decided to test Septoptic +1 aug'd versus Kaja Rod to see what the difference is.
Disclaimer: I only have the NQ rod, so to simulate the only stat difference that matters MAB+30 augment, I didn't wear a neck piece during Kaja Rod test. I used Memento Mori's +20 MAB and equipped Sanctity Necklace +10 MAB for Septoptic numbers.
Equip that stayed the same
Subjob / Spells / Traits Set
Target: Wild Rabbit - East Ronfaure
Septoptic NQ + MAB+30
Searing Tempest: 13989
Entomb: 13805
Spectral Floe: 18250
Subduction: 9217
Anvil Lightning: 14150
Tenebral Crush: 16738
Scouring Spate: 16318
Kaja Rod (neck removed due to simulation)
Searing Tempest: 14036
Entomb: 13860
Spectral Floe: 18165
Subduction: 9495
Anvil Lightning: 14189
Tenebral Crush: 16705
Scouring Spate: 16327
If only SE changed that +DMG augment to a decent amount of +MDMG...
I also checked Cohort Cloak +1 R15 vs Jhakri Coronal +2 / Amalric Doublet +1. (kept neck off because I didn't wanna retest numbers I already did above with Kaja Rod off hand)
Cohort Cloak +1 R15 comparison
Searing Tempest: 14134
Entomb: 14487
Spectral Floe: 18081
Subduction: 9524
Anvil Lightning: 14286
Tenebral Crush: 17207
Scouring Spate: 16756
They have very close to the same MAB/Macc. Jhakri/Amalric has +4 MAB and Cohort has +3 Macc but Cohort has more +attributes for all but INT. Loses by 2. Obviously also the cheaper option.
So overall better but up to someone to decide if worth the gil if already using Jhakri/Amalric +1.
Edit: Removed a 2nd Anvil Lightning number I mistakenly posted.
Disclaimer: I only have the NQ rod, so to simulate the only stat difference that matters MAB+30 augment, I didn't wear a neck piece during Kaja Rod test. I used Memento Mori's +20 MAB and equipped Sanctity Necklace +10 MAB for Septoptic numbers.
Equip that stayed the same
Subjob / Spells / Traits Set
Target: Wild Rabbit - East Ronfaure
Septoptic NQ + MAB+30
Searing Tempest: 13989
Entomb: 13805
Spectral Floe: 18250
Subduction: 9217
Anvil Lightning: 14150
Tenebral Crush: 16738
Scouring Spate: 16318
Kaja Rod (neck removed due to simulation)
Searing Tempest: 14036
Entomb: 13860
Spectral Floe: 18165
Subduction: 9495
Anvil Lightning: 14189
Tenebral Crush: 16705
Scouring Spate: 16327
If only SE changed that +DMG augment to a decent amount of +MDMG...
I also checked Cohort Cloak +1 R15 vs Jhakri Coronal +2 / Amalric Doublet +1. (kept neck off because I didn't wanna retest numbers I already did above with Kaja Rod off hand)
Cohort Cloak +1 R15 comparison
Searing Tempest: 14134
Entomb: 14487
Spectral Floe: 18081
Subduction: 9524
Anvil Lightning: 14286
Tenebral Crush: 17207
Scouring Spate: 16756
They have very close to the same MAB/Macc. Jhakri/Amalric has +4 MAB and Cohort has +3 Macc but Cohort has more +attributes for all but INT. Loses by 2. Obviously also the cheaper option.
So overall better but up to someone to decide if worth the gil if already using Jhakri/Amalric +1.
Edit: Removed a 2nd Anvil Lightning number I mistakenly posted.
I tested all the club combinations in reis, careful to test entomb repeatedly on the same mob - and I had very strange results.
On some mob families, Septoptic +1 + Bunzi always won (by a small amount).
And on others, Bunzi + Maxntius won (again by a small amount).
I was under the impression that magic damage was a large factor in blue magic damage, but it appears to not be the case (or there is some cap and anything beyond that is worthless) - at least with our large AoE nukes. I did not test subduction.
The bottom line is you really cant go wrong with any of these combinations - the difference will be tiny.
On some mob families, Septoptic +1 + Bunzi always won (by a small amount).
And on others, Bunzi + Maxntius won (again by a small amount).
I was under the impression that magic damage was a large factor in blue magic damage, but it appears to not be the case (or there is some cap and anything beyond that is worthless) - at least with our large AoE nukes. I did not test subduction.
The bottom line is you really cant go wrong with any of these combinations - the difference will be tiny.
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Thanks Larry, I came to the same conclusion. (I mostly use SoA dual-elemntal spells, like Spectral Flow, Blinding Fulgor, etc and came to the same conclusion).
Edit: I missed some of the earlier posts when I first replied. The tests for Septopic are NQ and not +1 w/Augments...and it's being compared to Niburu Cudgel.
For me personally, BLU nuking is magic-based AOE farming activity, so I'm rarely engaging when I'm doing that. I think I'll personally stay with Bunzi with Septopic+1. (I also like the HP/MP+90 and ConserveMP+).
The magic damage numbers between the two weapon pairs do overlap very consistently, for at least 50% of the data points my small data set.
If I were participating in some trial or a timed-event that required the maximum possible damage number (like a FFXI Magic-Based home run derby...) I'd switch to Maxentius...but the potential for getting a 2% higher nuke, on a spell I might not actually cast, isn't worth the trade-off for me personally or my play style.
However, when something does come out in the future that is a clear winner, it will certainly suck to lose the HP/MP+90. :/
Edit: I missed some of the earlier posts when I first replied. The tests for Septopic are NQ and not +1 w/Augments...and it's being compared to Niburu Cudgel.
For me personally, BLU nuking is magic-based AOE farming activity, so I'm rarely engaging when I'm doing that. I think I'll personally stay with Bunzi with Septopic+1. (I also like the HP/MP+90 and ConserveMP+).
The magic damage numbers between the two weapon pairs do overlap very consistently, for at least 50% of the data points my small data set.
If I were participating in some trial or a timed-event that required the maximum possible damage number (like a FFXI Magic-Based home run derby...) I'd switch to Maxentius...but the potential for getting a 2% higher nuke, on a spell I might not actually cast, isn't worth the trade-off for me personally or my play style.
However, when something does come out in the future that is a clear winner, it will certainly suck to lose the HP/MP+90. :/
Shiva.Larrymc said: »
I was under the impression that magic damage was a large factor in blue magic damage, but it appears to not be the case (or there is some cap and anything beyond that is worthless) - at least with our large AoE nukes. I did not test subduction.
Magic damage is big part of blue magic, but it depends on spell too. Subduction has lower base damage than Spectral floe for example, so mdmg will add relatively more for Subduction.
Shiva.Larrymc said: »
I tested all the club combinations in reis, careful to test entomb repeatedly on the same mob - and I had very strange results.
You tested with spell that has 80% VIT mod. Maxentius higher INT was only adding to dINT.
Spectral Floe with 80%INT
Tenebral Crush with 30%INT 30%MND
Scouring Spate with 80%MND
will get much more from Maxentius higher INT and MND.
Shiva.Larrymc said: »
On some mob families, Septoptic +1 + Bunzi always won (by a small amount).
And on others, Bunzi + Maxntius won (again by a small amount).
And on others, Bunzi + Maxntius won (again by a small amount).
Its possible dINT was uneven and rounding was playing a role if difference was really small.
Felgarr said: »
I missed some of the earlier posts when I first replied. The tests for Septopic are NQ and not +1 w/Augments...and it's being compared to Niburu Cudgel.
No it wasnt? No idea what you have read or maybe you just glimpsed and get confused.
What was being compered was Septoptic NQ with additional 30mab to simulate augment vs Kaja Rod (which is weaker than Maxentius obviously) and Septoptic only slightly won for Tenebral and Spectral, but Maxentius has 5 more INT and MND and 3 more MAB. With Augment on Bunzi being new bis too MAB on Septoptic will get slightly devaluated too. Also MAxentius should already be in your inventory because its bis for BLU blunt option. Its also much better for bursting.
Overall Septoptic looks like a waste of gils and inventory space.
I'm not particular content with Simon's editorializing of the differences between Bunzi Rod/Septopic+1 and Maxentius/Bunzi Rod. I made a chart, to accurately quantify the differences.
The trade-off is +25 MAB (and HP/MP+90, ConserveMP+7, +5 M.Acc Skill) to INT/MNT+9 and MagicDamage+108 (with 5 less M.Acc Skil).
In a Melee DD situation were nuking is involved, Maxentius/Bunzi Rod is better.
In a purely Magic damage situation (with no melee), Bunzi Rod/Septopic +1 is better. (It's probably true that this combination leans more towards AoE spells were dINT is capped).
I mean, that's why everything exists in this game right? Different gear for different situations.
The trade-off is +25 MAB (and HP/MP+90, ConserveMP+7, +5 M.Acc Skill) to INT/MNT+9 and MagicDamage+108 (with 5 less M.Acc Skil).
In a Melee DD situation were nuking is involved, Maxentius/Bunzi Rod is better.
In a purely Magic damage situation (with no melee), Bunzi Rod/Septopic +1 is better. (It's probably true that this combination leans more towards AoE spells were dINT is capped).
I mean, that's why everything exists in this game right? Different gear for different situations.
Magic Damage +8? The maxentius has 232 vs Septoptic+1 124
Draylo said: »
Magic Damage +8? The maxentius has 232 vs Septoptic+1 124
Yes, from my chart and subsequent post, I meant to type 108 and typed 8, by mistake. It's fixed in my subsequent post but still discernible from my chart. Typos sometimes happen when I post very early in the morning.
SimonSes said: »
Overall Septoptic looks like a waste of gils and inventory space.
I am going to have to now agree with you.
I forgot that Entomb was mainly a VIT mod.
Just based on the data from Bismarck.Rwol alone, it is clear that Septoptic+1 augmented is behind the other options. I also thought at first that this data was not a direct comparison because he was using NQ. But when I looked at NQ vs +1 - all of the critical stats were identical: INT, MND, M.att, m.acc, m.skill (thanks SE ....) - so the only significant difference is the m.att+30.
As one final test I went back to Reisenjima to re-test using subduction. Each nuke, even on the same mob, was wildly different, which is why the lvl 1 bunny test is much better. It was hard to draw any conclusions from testing on tigers and other high level mobs.
I did however test Subduction on Wanton Danaid, which has extreme wind damage resistance.
This let me spam subduction 50+ times with one set of clubs, then switch to another set - all on the same mob.
With Bunzi (non aug) + Maxentius, just about every nuke was exactly 222 damage.
With Bunzi (non aug) + Septoptic+1 (aug), just about every nuke was exactly 203 damage.
I have put my Septoptic+1 away.
Shiva.Larrymc said: »
Each nuke, even on the same mob, was wildly different
Did you happen to be using Orpheus's sash? That would account for the difference. If not, were you naked? The lack of macc could also be relevant in the varying results.
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Did you happen to be using Orpheus's sash? That would account for the difference. If not, were you naked? The lack of macc could also be relevant in the varying results.
No I was not naked, and yes I was using Orpheus's sash.... bah. My distance was all over the place when I was testing on tigers and other mobs.
In my test against the Wanton Danaid I was right next to the mob just letting it hit me so the distance was equal every time.
Edit: I went back retested Chapuli, with the sash removed. And results were now consistent.
With Bunzi (non aug) + Maxentius, just about every nuke was exactly 7731 damage.
With Bunzi (non aug) + Septoptic+1 (aug), just about every nuke was exactly 7280 damage.
Same conclusion, Septoptic+1 is at the bottom of the list of our club options.
Felgarr said: »
In a purely Magic damage situation (with no melee), Bunzi Rod/Septopic +1 is better.
Except its simply not. At least not for damage.
Felgarr said: »
(with 5 less M.Acc Skil).
M.acc skill is the same, unless you want to take advantage of Maxentius additional burst damage mechanic, otherwise you can use Maxentius in sub hand.
SimonSes said: »
Felgarr said: »
In a purely Magic damage situation (with no melee), Bunzi Rod/Septopic +1 is better.
Except its simply not. At least not for damage.
Felgarr said: »
(with 5 less M.Acc Skil).
M.acc skill is the same, unless you want to take advantage of Maxentius additional burst damage mechanic, otherwise you can use Maxentius in sub hand.
You're right. We're in agreement about the differences described. (just not in the overall value of the stat differences: INT, MND, MAB, HP/MP, ConserveMP, etc).
ITT: Trying to justify bad purchases.
Draylo said: »
ITT: Trying to justify bad purchases.
Septoptic+1 is far from a bad purchase, but if max Melee blunt and certain spell magic DPS is your goal, then by all means go for Maxentius and Bunzi Rod. (This would be more poignant if AoE damage wasn't nerfed in Odyssey, but as a result, HP/MP and Conserve MP wouldn't be harder to dismiss).
Otherwise, thank you for your contribution to this thread, but your posts are neither actionable, nor constructive.
(Thanks to the folks who took the time out to point the specific spells and modifiers for which Maxentius/Bunzi Rod is better in both magic and purely offensive, blunt-melee situations).
Edit: (I have all of the above weapons, just FYI, so I'm not married to one combination over another). Yes, I concede Maxentius/Bunzi Rod has higher damage potential given the INT/MND+9 and M.Dmg+108 difference.
It would be easier if you tell what you want to AoE with your setup that requires more hp/mp and conserve MP over just more damage with spells.
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