On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3) |
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On Healing Hands - A Comprehensive WHM Guide (v3)
Asura.Toralin said: » zixxer said: » Could someone please share their BIS enfeebling set? ItemSet 389209 obviously an Ebers Earring +2 would have a place almost the same as mine howevr i refer the hydro flower in ammo slot. loosing 2 macc to gain 3 mnd. woth mnd giving potency for slow and para and macc from d start i think its overall e miniscule improvement. But its really not one above the other i really prefer the stikinin + metamor. like you for the same reason That's also very similar to mine.
AF head will give you 1 more magic accuracy and 3 more mnd. You can also do Contemplator +1 and Enki Strap instead of yag/shield but I'm not entirely sure which will work out better. I prefer regal cuffs to Kaykaus. They get the AF Bonus and have more MND i thinks.
Bismarck.Yvan said: » That's also very similar to mine. AF head will give you 1 more magic accuracy and 3 more mnd. You can also do Contemplator +1 and Enki Strap instead of yag/shield but I'm not entirely sure which will work out better. This really comes down to your believe on the ilevle atribute magic accuracy skill Some believe insome table that an S.E forum moderator posted Some believe in the explanation by the head developer themselves that was also confirmed by jp testing but if you prefer the later that was confirmed with ingame testing then yagrush wins out. ( bunzi R30 still bets both) This is what i believe i a single "optimal" enfeebling set if you are looking to just have one
ItemSet 385396 For WHM enfeebling i use the napkin math of 1mnd = 1 Macc = 1 skill in regards to value. that not saying 1mnd gives you 1 Macc but since mnd effective both potency of slow and para and added Macc from Dstat the "Value" of the stats is roughly 1:1. With that napkin math the kaykus gloves have a value of 116 ( i forgot augment first time) and regal cufs have 85 and with the added duration. now for some spells mnd does nothing for the potency and only helps through Dstart on those case you might want to value skill and macc a bit more than mnd Silence on those case you can make the ammo slot over to pemhpredo tathlum to go full macc as well as shift metamoor. ring to stikini ring. both stikinin ring and the tathlum you most likely alredy have from a refresh set and your cure set So if want to stave inventory dropping hydrocore and just go with tathlum Heck you can switch back into kayukus +1 for more raw mac as well if the above got to confusing let me know and ill try to explain it more consistently P.S. Malignance earring s a good stand-in earring until you get both regal and ebers Ragnarok.Gennss said: » I prefer regal cuffs to Kaykaus. They get the AF Bonus and have more MND i thinks. Cuffs have AF bonus? Maybe I misunderstood the BG Comment on regal accessories?
Ragnarok.Gennss said: » Maybe I misunderstood the BG Comment on regal accessories? Hand equipment aren't accessories never have been and never will be. It also doesnt have the "set: increases acc/racc/macc" on them like the rest of the AF+2/3 and the regal accessories.
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Never thought about that but knew they didnt having one for awhile.
Quote: Ragnarok.Gennss said: » Maybe I misunderstood the BG Comment on regal accessories? Hand equipment aren't accessories never have been and never will be. It also doesnt have the "set: increases acc/racc/macc" on them like the rest of the AF+2/3 and the regal accessories. Honest mistake. So Kayakus? Still would prefer regal cuffs for the extra 20% duration. Whm enfeebles are all trivial to cap potency from mnd. For end game content and acc I’d look at a lot of the ebers set for survivability
Still would prefer regal cuffs for the extra 20% duration. Whm enfeebles are all trivial to cap potency from mnd. For end game content and acc I’d look at a lot of the ebers set for survivability
DaneBlood said: » This is what i believe i a single "optimal" enfeebling set if you are looking to just have one ItemSet 385396 for whm enffebling i use the napkin math of 1mnd = 1 maccc = 1 skill in regards to value. that not saying 1mnd gives you 1 Macc but since mnd effective both potency of slow and para and added macc from start the "Value" of the stats is roughly 1:1. With thah napkin math the kaykus gloves have a value of 116 ( i forgot augment first time) and regal cufs have 85 and with the added duration. if its get the +15 artifact bonus its at 100 now for some spells mnd does nothing for the potency and only helps through Dstart on those case you might want to value skill and macc a bit more than mnd Silence on those case you can make the ammo slot over to pemhpredo tathlum to go full macc as well as shift metamoor. ring to stikini ring. both stikinin ring and the tathlum you most likely alredy have from a refresh set and your cure set So if want to stave inventory dropping hydrocore and just go with tathlum Heck you can switch back into kayukus +1 for more raw mac as well if the above got to confussing let me know and ill try to explain it more consistently P.S. Malignance earring s a food stand-in earring until you get both regal and ebers Any reason you're not using yag r15? zixxer said: » Any reason you're not using yag r15? Following his logic its the same macc as r15 yag with the bonus of mnd affecting potency on some enfeebs assuming r30 augs anyway Ragnarok.Gennss said: » Quote: Ragnarok.Gennss said: » Maybe I misunderstood the BG Comment on regal accessories? Hand equipment aren't accessories never have been and never will be. It also doesnt have the "set: increases acc/racc/macc" on them like the rest of the AF+2/3 and the regal accessories. Honest mistake. So Kayakus? Now it all depends on the target, if you need the extra macc for the enfeeble to land then its Kaykaus +1 and if you dont you should always be using Regal Cuffs if you have them. Nariont said: » zixxer said: » Any reason you're not using yag r15? Following his logic its the same macc as r15 yag with the bonus of mnd affecting potency on some enfeebs assuming r30 augs anyway r15 Yagrush(40+30) has 15 more macc than a r30 Bunzi's Rod(40+15) but yeah if they dont need the extra macc the +15 MND would be better. A better MND option, again if you dont need the extra macc from Bunzi's, would be Daybreak at +30 MND. Just some rough math that set is sitting at 478 macc just in gear alone and without a weapon. Just to put that in perspective my RDM that enfeebles wave3 is sitting at 449 in potency gear without a weapon and has duration merits instead of macc. Full macc without a weapon is at around 520 for any particularly resistant mobs. For what it's worth, Daybreak (242) has less Macc Skill than Bunzi and Yagrush (255).
Also MND "converts" to Macc for white magic enfeebles, but the ratio at which this conversion happens depends on the dMND. I think that if you're far below a target's MND then 1 point of MND can even go as high as 2Macc, vice-versa if you're above a certain threshold the conversion ratio degrades quickly. Personally I just assume a 2:1 MND>Macc "conversion" rate when comparing pieces in the same slot. I don't think we know exactly the break points for Stat>Macc "conversion", and I don't think that it truly "converts" to macc. More likely MND plays a role in the formula that is used to calculate the land chance of the spell you're casting, but on a separate term from Macc. They both contribute to the same end though (allowing the spell to land) so they're comparable. I would love to see more detailed tests but I think whatever the formula is, it's gonna be the same for all the 3 main stats affecting debuffs: MND for white magic ones, INT for black magic ones, CHR for songs. Asura.Sechs said: » For what it's worth, Daybreak (242) has less Macc Skill than Bunzi and Yagrush (255). If the dev post from 2016 is correct the difference in actual macc between 242 skill and 255 skill is only 6 so Daybreak is 21 macc behind Bunzi's but has +15 MND. Odin.Creaucent said: » Asura.Sechs said: » For what it's worth, Daybreak (242) has less Macc Skill than Bunzi and Yagrush (255). If the dev post from 2016 is correct the difference in actual macc between 242 skill and 255 skill is only 6 so Daybreak is 21 macc behind Bunzi's but has +15 MND. More info here It's a small difference anyway regardless of who is right (Lute's tests seemed to be pretty on-spot though, if you ask me). Also as I said before it's hard to evaluate MND for enfeebles. They somehow affect macc (land rate) and also potency, which makes MND better in theory, but unless I'm wrong you cap MND potency pretty early with the gear options we have nowadays, and any additional MND past that will "only" contribute to the "landing rate" of debuffs. The contribution from MND is not linear, unlike macc, because MND>Macc "converts" at different rates according to how below or above your target's MND you are when you cast. I tend to assume the worst (?) case scenario of 2MND:1Macc to be somewhat safe in my own evaluations but that's of course just a gross oversimplification of how things truly are, alas. Either way, if you ask me all four discussed options seem very good and very close to each other.
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Which performs better as an offhand for meleeing? Caith Sith Hammer or Bunzi's rod? Which one is better drastically changes my melee curing sets.
Quetzalcoatl.Khajit said: » Which performs better as an offhand for meleeing? Caith Sith Hammer or Bunzi's rod? Which one is better drastically changes my melee curing sets. If you're comparing Cath Palug vs Bunzi on a wild guess I'd say Cath Palug is gonna offer more DPS (depending on your acc needs though, since Bunzi theoretically has more) but then you get no curepot, leaving you with less freedom in the other slots. The real answer is likely dependent on what Weaponskill you're using.
Cath Palug probably for Black Halo/Mystic Boon (physical) Bunzi's (main hand)/Daybreak offhand for Seraph Strike/Flash Nova (magical) That's very interesting. I've been looking at it from a TP gain perspective.
TP-gain wise Kraken Club is your answer, with Cath Palug likely being second.
Then again you can't disregard the option in MH, for instance take an Asclepius B or Yagrush AM3 in mainhand, that might change your priorities for OH but then again not necessarily given the small amount of options available lol You can get 100% accurate answers to these questions, using the gear you have available, by using the WHM spreadsheet. You can easily check TPgain speed as well and wether or not a faster TPgain speed will convert to a higher overall DPS (most of the time: it does!) Odin.Creaucent said: » Asura.Sechs said: » For what it's worth, Daybreak (242) has less Macc Skill than Bunzi and Yagrush (255). If the dev post from 2016 is correct the difference in actual macc between 242 skill and 255 skill is only 6 so Daybreak is 21 macc behind Bunzi's but has +15 MND. We got information both from devs (Matsui) and JP testing that is NOT correct and mac skill is 1:1 with Macc ther was alot of confussiong with ilevels weapon when they came out and hidden Macc accuracy. so they revamped hot its shown. I believe the dev from "you" dev post got confussed and used pre change information zixxer said: » DaneBlood said: » This is what i believe i a single "optimal" enfeebling set if you are looking to just have one ItemSet 385396 for whm enffebling i use the napkin math of 1mnd = 1 maccc = 1 skill in regards to value. that not saying 1mnd gives you 1 Macc but since mnd effective both potency of slow and para and added macc from start the "Value" of the stats is roughly 1:1. With thah napkin math the kaykus gloves have a value of 116 ( i forgot augment first time) and regal cufs have 85 and with the added duration. if its get the +15 artifact bonus its at 100 now for some spells mnd does nothing for the potency and only helps through Dstart on those case you might want to value skill and macc a bit more than mnd Silence on those case you can make the ammo slot over to pemhpredo tathlum to go full macc as well as shift metamoor. ring to stikini ring. both stikinin ring and the tathlum you most likely alredy have from a refresh set and your cure set So if want to stave inventory dropping hydrocore and just go with tathlum Heck you can switch back into kayukus +1 for more raw mac as well if the above got to confussing let me know and ill try to explain it more consistently P.S. Malignance earring s a food stand-in earring until you get both regal and ebers Any reason you're not using yag r15? Yagrush R15 Macc +40 Macc skill +255 Macc +30 = 325 in "Value" Bunzi R30 MND +15 Macc +40 MAcc Skill +255 Macc +15 = 325 in Value You can do both to your liking's If you have cap'ed MND Dstat for potency and accuracy on your mob yagrush might be better due to more pure Macc If you are not capped on potency and Dstat then Bunzi will have same Macc and comes with added potency For full disclosure the deciding factor for me was that im using erra pendant with +17mac instead of cleric neck +2 for 15mnd, as well as obstinate being low on MND I prefer to make a 1:1 trade of of Macc to MND on the club. But both are solid and for none potency enfeebles yag R15 would be my recommendation But ffxi gearing is a fractal at this point lol. every situations its own gear set. and in my upcoming guide all 3 sets for enfeeble will be there (potency, accuracy and overall) DaneBlood said: » Odin.Creaucent said: » Asura.Sechs said: » For what it's worth, Daybreak (242) has less Macc Skill than Bunzi and Yagrush (255). If the dev post from 2016 is correct the difference in actual macc between 242 skill and 255 skill is only 6 so Daybreak is 21 macc behind Bunzi's but has +15 MND. We got information both from devs (Matsui) and JP testing that is NOT correct and mac skill is 1:1 with Macc ther was alot of confussiong with ilevels weapon when they came out and hidden Macc accuracy. so they revamped hot its shown. I believe the dev from "you" dev post got confussed and used pre change information Either way it's still only 28 macc behind and like i said before if that 28 macc doesn't matter you should be using Daybreak for the extra MND for the potency. It really depends on if you want to specialise your sets that much. For macc, clubs with Ammurapi Shield and staff with Enki strap, its R15 Yagrush > r30 Bunzi > r0 Yagrush > r0 Bunzi > r15 Contemplator +1 > Daybreak. For potency its Daybreak > r15 Contemplator +1 > Bunzi's Rod > Yagrush.
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Odin.Creaucent said: » Either way it's still only 28 macc behind and like i said before if that 28 macc doesn't matter you should be using Daybreak for the extra MND for the potency. It really depends on if you want to specialise your sets that much. For macc, clubs with Ammurapi Shield and staff with Enki strap, its R15 Yagrush > r30 Bunzi > r0 Yagrush > r0 Bunzi > r15 Contemplator +1 > Daybreak. For potency its Daybreak > r15 Contemplator +1 > Bunzi's Rod > Yagrush. I would have to disagree with these recommendations. You are focusing on a single item when you should be focusing on the set. This a known logical flow in "Budgeting" known as cost of lost opportunity Going from Bunzi to Daybreak, you are trading 28 macc for 15 mnd. When you can change the neck and trade only 17 macc for 15 mnd (and you get some enmity- plus to boot). Seems bad to pay a 64% overprice on Macc for MND in that trade. This is why I use the 1:1:1 values ratios, because it becomes easy to see when you do bad trades like this. You just tossed away 13 in "value" to get 15 more MND when it should only have cost you 2 in "value". Daybrak is not bad choice. But it just not optimal to trade in your bunzi r30 or yag r15 (If you have them) to daybreak to get more MND when there are more optimal things to swap first. Down the road maybe after some other swaps... maybe. But I am not sure we would like to go all down that road as we most likely will cap potency and dstat and the trading efficiency just goes to Hades |
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