I mean, it doesn't matter if -25% is "actually" only giving -20% all you need to know is where the end is, and you get that by literally just logging data points.
It doesn't matter if they have 3500 as a base, or 3500 because a secret buff exists to nerf the multiplier, only the end result.
You can make it sound as complicated as you need it to be to you can avoid doing it, but it isn't. With about 8 bullets you'll have all the data points you need to know their defense and any weird bonuses comparatively.
By all means though debate it the rest of the week instead
The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Asura.Eiryl said: »
It doesn't matter if they have 3500 as a base, or 3500 because a secret buff exists to nerf the multiplier, only the end result.
It does matter. For example, assuming the mobs have 2000 def and +50% defense as a buff in the same step as def- debuffs..
4000 attack with no defense- = 1.33 ratio.
2000 attack with -50% defense = 1.0 ratio
If they have 3000 def and it's not a mysterious buff in the same step as def- debuffs..
4000 attack with no defense- = 1.33 ratio still
2000 attack with -50% defense = 1.33 ratio
So, to establish a defense value you first have to establish whether this mechanic is in play, and to what extent. Without doing that, you can say 'X attack with Y defense- is capped', but you can't use that to solve for X attack given Y defense- because you don't know the necessary variables. There is also a general DT- on the monsters at v25.
Please, outline a list of steps that will give answers to each of these factors in 8 bullets shot.
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All you need to know is where def- stops working
You shoot, dia(20~23) shoot, Angon(or ooze 25-33%) shoot, steps(23) shoot, frailty shoot. Whatever stacks until they stop stacking.
If it takes more defense - than it should on a "normal mob" you know theres some secret buff if it doesn't then you found the answer anyway.
It goes over 100% def- you can't not find the answer. (idr what bolster idris frailty is when it's nerfed in gaol 1/2? 1/3? 1/4? 1/10th?)
Then you'll know you capped, your attack is static their defense is static, you have each shot recorded to work backwards.
(5 bullets)
((You can get fancier and narrow it down exactly by doing steps last and shooting after each step))
You shoot, dia(20~23) shoot, Angon(or ooze 25-33%) shoot, steps(23) shoot, frailty shoot. Whatever stacks until they stop stacking.
If it takes more defense - than it should on a "normal mob" you know theres some secret buff if it doesn't then you found the answer anyway.
It goes over 100% def- you can't not find the answer. (idr what bolster idris frailty is when it's nerfed in gaol 1/2? 1/3? 1/4? 1/10th?)
Then you'll know you capped, your attack is static their defense is static, you have each shot recorded to work backwards.
(5 bullets)
((You can get fancier and narrow it down exactly by doing steps last and shooting after each step))
Eiryl struggled with PEMDAS
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Also ignoring the fact that this rocket surgeon just listed a minimum of 5 (realistically 6) jobs in order to do this, which is the problem from the beginning. Again, not as simple as "just going in and shooting 8 bullets".
Asura.Eiryl said: »
All you need to know is where def- stops working
Shiva.Thorny said: »
Without doing that, you can say 'X attack with Y defense- is capped'
That does not tell you what X needs to be when Y=0.4, and groups intending to kill the boss aren't going to be able to field RDM, BST, DNC, COR, GEO with bolster up all fight, it leaves no WHM and a choice between tank and heavy DPS for last. So, even if you ignore that the actual question is 'how much defense do they have', it's not enough information to solve the practical side either.
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They don't have 10,000 defense, and you'll know after you do it, THEN you can worry about "if"
"If" you cant get to cap then and only then does anything else matter. (You've got fury/chaos levers to pull too)
The objective is not to kill it is to find answers. Being unable to kill it with 6 testers is irrelevant.
You've already expended more energy on this thread than the output required to solve the riddle.
"If" you cant get to cap then and only then does anything else matter. (You've got fury/chaos levers to pull too)
The objective is not to kill it is to find answers. Being unable to kill it with 6 testers is irrelevant.
You've already expended more energy on this thread than the output required to solve the riddle.
I mean, solving this on a ITG target is already very difficult. Now throw in an entrance cost, tight time limit and needing multiple other people without SJ's.
Absolutely zero difficulty, only excuses.
Zero extra entrance cost; Use it was an RP farm, if you don't need RP then you wom't miss 3k segs.
15 minutes is 3x longer than you need.
"multiple other people" you all 6 box, or god forbid, you communicate with another human, *shudder* horrifying.
Not wanting to do it is fine. Excuses are pathetic.
Zero extra entrance cost; Use it was an RP farm, if you don't need RP then you wom't miss 3k segs.
15 minutes is 3x longer than you need.
"multiple other people" you all 6 box, or god forbid, you communicate with another human, *shudder* horrifying.
Not wanting to do it is fine. Excuses are pathetic.
Yeah that's the joke. We don't all 6 box and motivating other people to waste time and segments they could be using to do something productive because people are arguing on the internet...
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I couldn't find any information on this, and on bg wiki discussions about ongo they all have 3 jobs capable of magic bursting.
My question is could you cause both Proc's with just 1 or 2 Jobs that can nuke, or do you need two to three happening almost simultaneously.
My question is could you cause both Proc's with just 1 or 2 Jobs that can nuke, or do you need two to three happening almost simultaneously.
its number of bursts that proc, so each time you are required to proc, the quantity of bursts also increases. More individuals capable of bursting simply makes that easier to manage as the fight goes on.
So say a blm does a triple magic burst by itself, that works fine. people are using 3 nukers to just feel more comfortable with the margin of error.
correct?
correct?
Can be done solo or in a group to remove aura. Using more people removes the aura faster. It makes sense to have 2-3 people join in on the aura removal if you're worried about dying.
At higher difficulties, I've seen groups that ignore removing the aura, since Ongo is weak physically and a good RUN can ride Meva/mdt and survive just fine. Removing his first few auras makes subsequent aura removal even harder and longer, which takes up valuable time where you could just be focusing on killing (of course you could just do it WHILE nuking, but focusing on it is not as important as just killing the bird). But that's all supplemental context unrelated to your original question.
At higher difficulties, I've seen groups that ignore removing the aura, since Ongo is weak physically and a good RUN can ride Meva/mdt and survive just fine. Removing his first few auras makes subsequent aura removal even harder and longer, which takes up valuable time where you could just be focusing on killing (of course you could just do it WHILE nuking, but focusing on it is not as important as just killing the bird). But that's all supplemental context unrelated to your original question.
Thank you, You answered my question. and you gave me plenty of extra information!
The reason I even had that thought process was because crit procs have to be like one behind the other very quickly.
The reason I even had that thought process was because crit procs have to be like one behind the other very quickly.
Been actively trying to join Odyssey Gaol groups to help with getting people clears. I really think SE should look into incentivizing people that already have their clears that are helping others that still need it.
It doesn't have to be something game-breaking.
Maybe no xp loss upon death? Gil (they already do something like it for sheol abc)? A coffer that grants random currency or mats, like 5 beitetsus? Lol, I have no idea but they literally have zero incentive to help randoms and I think it would be a nice thing to add and shouldn't be that hard to code in? They did the no xp loss thing in ambu recently, soooo...
What do y'all think?
It doesn't have to be something game-breaking.
Maybe no xp loss upon death? Gil (they already do something like it for sheol abc)? A coffer that grants random currency or mats, like 5 beitetsus? Lol, I have no idea but they literally have zero incentive to help randoms and I think it would be a nice thing to add and shouldn't be that hard to code in? They did the no xp loss thing in ambu recently, soooo...
What do y'all think?
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the built in incentive was to finish your RP... but the BST ooze on majority of them allows people to solo/duo all their RP without going for clears. Don't get me wrong, thank god for the Amps... but it really destroyed the incentive structure for teaming up and actually trying to win.
That being said, being able to spend RP on boxes of lustreless items? The rate of Segments -> lustreless is so bad its essentially worthless. For most of us who've cleared everything this is also useless admittedly, but its something on brand.
I'm also of the opinion that all endgame, not just odyssey, should reward SUBSTANTIAL exemplar points. If you clear a v25 boss it wouldnt be unreasonable to reward 250k - 500k exemplars in one batch. Things like sortie, if you do 9 bosses, should let you walk out with 200k exemplars. If something like peach power can reward 60k, this isnt an unreasonable request. Hitting ML 50 shouldnt require a bot, or paying a bot.
Just my 10 cents
That being said, being able to spend RP on boxes of lustreless items? The rate of Segments -> lustreless is so bad its essentially worthless. For most of us who've cleared everything this is also useless admittedly, but its something on brand.
I'm also of the opinion that all endgame, not just odyssey, should reward SUBSTANTIAL exemplar points. If you clear a v25 boss it wouldnt be unreasonable to reward 250k - 500k exemplars in one batch. Things like sortie, if you do 9 bosses, should let you walk out with 200k exemplars. If something like peach power can reward 60k, this isnt an unreasonable request. Hitting ML 50 shouldnt require a bot, or paying a bot.
Just my 10 cents
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They should make entering Sheol: Gaol possible without a Moglophone II. Similar to how you can do a UNM fight as a party member without having the ROE set, you forfeit any potential rewards. Just make it so that if someone doesn't have a Moglophone II, they forfeit RP or clear progress, but it doesn't cost them anything either, so they can help friends for as long as they want without ever having to worry about "wasting segments". The higher Vengs wouldn't matter for this change, since you'd join and use an Amp, but the lower Veng clears are Segment eaters, and people who already have those clears won't really help others with them because there's virtually no benefit to them and it costs something. I think a simple change like that would be sufficient.
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I mean yeah, and then it's mercd 24/7 cause there's no entry fee.
Minimum effort here. If you don't care, it is what it is, but it's very clearly a reason they've made it the way it is.
If you at least met them half way it wouldn't be so stupid. Every solution you people think of doesn't HELP anyone do content, it just makes it easier to buy.
Rub those braincells together.
Free but once per day, phone2 half price, no phone loss on wipe but no rp either. They aren't going to bargain though, so it's pointless, regardless.
Minimum effort here. If you don't care, it is what it is, but it's very clearly a reason they've made it the way it is.
If you at least met them half way it wouldn't be so stupid. Every solution you people think of doesn't HELP anyone do content, it just makes it easier to buy.
Rub those braincells together.
Free but once per day, phone2 half price, no phone loss on wipe but no rp either. They aren't going to bargain though, so it's pointless, regardless.
It's already merced 24/7 with an entrance fee
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It really isn't, the increase would be immeasurable
And again, that's fine if thats what you want. more people buying it. But it will not motivate anyone to attempt wins when buying is effortless all day long.
Removing RP farming solves the problem. You don't lose a phone unless you win, no more purposeful wipes. That ***ain't gonna happen.
(I'd make it RP only on win, and if you take someone who doesn't have the win, you get the AMP effect, IF they contribute in a measurable way, which again, isn't going to happen)
And again, that's fine if thats what you want. more people buying it. But it will not motivate anyone to attempt wins when buying is effortless all day long.
Removing RP farming solves the problem. You don't lose a phone unless you win, no more purposeful wipes. That ***ain't gonna happen.
(I'd make it RP only on win, and if you take someone who doesn't have the win, you get the AMP effect, IF they contribute in a measurable way, which again, isn't going to happen)
I really don’t think anything should be changed on odyssey. It’s really good, can score 10K seg easily, enough for 3 try or an RP run almost daily.
At best some form of alliance event inside, following same principle, and as an incentive of helping others with lesser clear, everyone should have beaten all V5 to have access to the V5 alliance event, and so forth. That’s an incentive to help people, as you need people to have access to it. Reward should be a goblin chocolate bar.
But seriously, ody as it is shouldn’t be touch, expanded upon maybe.
At best some form of alliance event inside, following same principle, and as an incentive of helping others with lesser clear, everyone should have beaten all V5 to have access to the V5 alliance event, and so forth. That’s an incentive to help people, as you need people to have access to it. Reward should be a goblin chocolate bar.
But seriously, ody as it is shouldn’t be touch, expanded upon maybe.
I don't think adjusting the content to make it more accessible or incentivize players to help other players is going to break anything. I've read a lot of ideas that would work in one iteration or another but it's doubtful SE is going to make any measurable changes any time soon. They will likely add small things like monthly rewards and campaigns but slowly over time but nothing major.
Any improvement you give to players would also benefit mercs. There's not many ways around this. You can get creative with how you plan content but if there's real life money to be made, the mercs are gonna merc it.
If SE wanted to restrict RMT they would simply crack down on all the blatant bots/rmt running around selling everything all day long. They're not hard to spot, hell, they change they're names every day to another version of the same name and run a script to shout 24/7.
You have real players that aren't rmt running bots and selling content as well. SE ignores it 99.9% of the time but at the same time if they cracked down on "exploits" you'd lose more than half your player base
Anyways, I wouldn't restrict content simply to avoid rmt taking advantage of it. There are better ways to deal with that.
Any improvement you give to players would also benefit mercs. There's not many ways around this. You can get creative with how you plan content but if there's real life money to be made, the mercs are gonna merc it.
If SE wanted to restrict RMT they would simply crack down on all the blatant bots/rmt running around selling everything all day long. They're not hard to spot, hell, they change they're names every day to another version of the same name and run a script to shout 24/7.
You have real players that aren't rmt running bots and selling content as well. SE ignores it 99.9% of the time but at the same time if they cracked down on "exploits" you'd lose more than half your player base
Anyways, I wouldn't restrict content simply to avoid rmt taking advantage of it. There are better ways to deal with that.
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It's not about "restricting" mercs, it's about reality.
You want people to do it, but your solutions cause buying it to be a vastly superior option.
What you want is to raise the attempts rate, without excessively bumping the buy rate.
Buys are always going to happen. Right now buys are higher than tries. All your "solutions" only raise the disparity.
You want people to do it, but your solutions cause buying it to be a vastly superior option.
What you want is to raise the attempts rate, without excessively bumping the buy rate.
Buys are always going to happen. Right now buys are higher than tries. All your "solutions" only raise the disparity.
Complaining about “MERC” is just a distraction and excuse to anything. Merc will happen no matter what, and is a form of business success. I don’t do this “sheet”, I don’t even have a mule. Any of them, buyer or seller, merc or bot, prevented me from playing the game. So that’s irrelevant. Yes it’s easy to find RMT/merc, I’m on Phoenix, just doing a player search with “pho” lands hundreds, try that for any server, ASU for Asura, BAH for bahamut, CAR for carbuncle, pretty sure it will land 100’s if not thousands of accounts on FFXI AH, there’s an entire “industry” supporting XI. So yes it’s easy to find and that’s just the tip. But none of those prevented me from any of my odyssey clear, any of my aeonics, making REMA or storyline. That’s in your head, you setting yourself in an invisible box. Let RMT, merc, botter and others do what they do, and you do you. Talk about content, what’s your point of view, all that is cool, there’s tons of idea that are cool but you ain’t preventing their activity in any form
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Another practical implication of "free" entrances that don't grant the win/RP:
You can practice a fight infinite times, then once you've got a
(potentially) winning strategy down, or you win 1/10, 1/4, or whatever is acceptable to you, strategy, THEN you start using moglophone IIs on "real" attempts.
It would make getting clears much easier for the segment-starved, at all levels.
Some would consider that a good thing, I'm not as convinced. Having something on the line for the win is a lot more meaningful and having a reason to farm segments (other than gil because who needs more of that?) is another good reason to get people online, playing, chatting, etc. We've had people missing from my group a lot lately and have started yelling and taking randos in to our seg farms; wouldn't be doing that if we didn't need the segments for boss attempts.
You can practice a fight infinite times, then once you've got a
(potentially) winning strategy down, or you win 1/10, 1/4, or whatever is acceptable to you, strategy, THEN you start using moglophone IIs on "real" attempts.
It would make getting clears much easier for the segment-starved, at all levels.
Some would consider that a good thing, I'm not as convinced. Having something on the line for the win is a lot more meaningful and having a reason to farm segments (other than gil because who needs more of that?) is another good reason to get people online, playing, chatting, etc. We've had people missing from my group a lot lately and have started yelling and taking randos in to our seg farms; wouldn't be doing that if we didn't need the segments for boss attempts.
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Odyssey doesn't need notes. It's good content.
If you enjoy paying money for progress, it's still good content.
I would be immensely happy if they made more of it.
If you enjoy paying money for progress, it's still good content.
I would be immensely happy if they made more of it.
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