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Ambuscade Vol.1 April 2019
By Aerix 2019-04-06 13:49:15
That's a nice scenario, but almost never happens in reality. People would rather bring a mule COR/WHM with React over asking a random soloer to join and convince them to download and configure a bot. And people rarely stop at only 10k-20k hallmarks unless they're really struggling with the fight.
In any case, arguing with you is just pointlessly filling up this thread, so I'll call it quits here to save us both some time.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 13:54:58
Because we paged:
Lili's definitive guide to Meeble ambu, melee style:
- all Meebles are MNK. They have very high counter rate, and it's very strong. If a DD pulls hate, turn away until hate is lost, lest you want to eat 4k counters.
- Bozzetto Breadwinner will perform <element> Meeble Warble TP move. These do moderate AoE damage and apply corresponding debuffs (ex: Thunder will apply Stun+Shock, Stone will apply Petrify+Rasp, etc), and have a (short) ready time, during which you can perform a corresponding elemental barspell to block all aoe damage+debuffs. Can setup React to do this VERY easily, but can also do it manually. I am doing it manually, risk of error is there but it's not difficult to not miss any, especially if you kill quick: Meeble Warble moves go off exactly every 30s, so the faster you kill, the less barspells you need.
- Bozzetto Housemaker will periodically go after the character doing barspells and perform Earthshaker?, a fullers type move that hits for 1k damage per body in range. One person in range = 1000 dmg to that person, 3 persons in range = 3000 dmg to each person. Range is around 20', running away is not impossible provided you're quick. Stoneskin works, DT does not. Phalanx untested but I'm assuming it does.
- Bozzetto Housemaker cannot be killed. If you attack it, it's a wipe.
- 2x Bozzetto Urchin (on VD-D, 1 on N-E, none on VE) will spawn. They are weak (die in 1-2 WS), but hit hard, and will rage after 30s or so.
- when Urchins rage, boss+urchin will perform Hundred Fists, and it's usually a wipe shortly after because they hit VERY hard.
- Breadwinner can perform Hundred Fists even if adds do not spawn/are killed in time (trigger unknown, possibly based on HP%). During HF, it also gains a Slow Spikes effect.
- Urchins can be slept, both Sleepga and Lullaby work. Not sure about BLU sleeps but no reason why it should not.
- Silencing the boss makes it less likely (but still not 0 chance) that Housemaker or Urchins will pop.
Recommended strat:
- RUN (for added DD) + 2x heavy DD + GEO + WHM + BRD, brd doing barspells and being manually manned to run away when (if) Housemaker pops.
- can use PLD instead of RUN but higher chance of losing hate, and lower dps potential = slower kill, more Meeble moves, more chance to mess up.
- can of course use DD COR in place of one of the heavy DDs (...or both)
- WHM and/or GEO should silence Breadwinner on pull and keep it silenced forever. Need decent magic accuracy on VD.
- recommended to overhaste (double march + haste usually enough), to counter the effect of Slow Spikes.
- go to town and it dies quickly before any add can come wreck you.
- Recommended to do barspells from a /whm subjob on one of the buffers instead of WHM. Songs-only BRD is best since they generally don't do anything after singing anyway. Cor/whm also works if brd wants to melee. Geo/whm does too, but you lose the indi- bubble when geo runs out of range for Earthshaker?.
- it IS possible to not do barspells and use Esuna instead, but you're making life unnecessarily hard on yourself. If you don't do barspells you're bad, and I am judging you from across the room.
- Barspells do not need to be casted in retaliation, they can be cast beforehand, will nullify the move as long as the element matches. I believe that the gimmick is about having the barelement buff active, rather than just having the elemental resistance, but I am probably not going to test it.
If your melee DPS is high enough, you can kill a VD silenced Breadwinner before any add has a chance to appear at all (personal record so far: 4:45 with a leech spot.)
Everything else applies to lower difficultied than VD, just with less monster stats, less adds, and a lower dps check.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-06 14:52:50
Just from my perspective. My ping to Se servers is usually around 280+ ms. It's almost impossible for me to react fast enough and counter warbles with barspells. What are my alternatives? Fulltime barstonra and barpetra and just have enough cures and -na/erase?
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 14:59:32
Just gonna have to pray
Totally reasonable answer right? Sounds fair.
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Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-06 17:06:34
The move is 3 seconds minimum on the server, even with 280ms each way + 330ms packet interval each way(worst case timing) you have 1.7 seconds to respond with capped FC or 1.3 with none. Unless your reflexes are truly horrible and you haven't been playing any game except FFXI for years, that's easy stuff for a gamer.
If you want to cheat, cheat. Don't pretend it's unwinnable without. Any non-mmo would consider that a trivial mechanic.
(And yea, fulltime barstone and esuna is not even that big a deal. With regen5 the DoT doesn't hurt.)
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 17:14:23
If it were just one bar you'd be right, but you have to pick one of six in that 1 second.
It's very easy to just stun. It's alot harder to get stone when its supposed to be stone, and water when its supposed to be water.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-06 17:15:30
Play any shooter, MOBA, etc. You're expected to choose an action in a small fraction of that time period.
It really isn't difficult, even with below average reflexes.
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Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 17:16:03
People that play this game, play this game BECAUSE they can't react properly on a real game.
Bahamut.Shozokui
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 460
By Bahamut.Shozokui 2019-04-06 17:49:19
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »Play any shooter, MOBA, etc. You're expected to choose an action in a small fraction of that time period.
It really isn't difficult, even with below average reflexes.
And what do shooters and MOBAs have that XI doesn't? How about responsive inputs, no 2.5-5 sec lockouts if you make a mistake and start doing the wrong thing, less than 70ms actual communication time, no phantom casting because of gear transitions, the list goes on.
When's the last time you tried to play a shooter with 280ms ping time? How about dodging a rocket with 280ms? That's the equivalent of what we're talking about. Also, you are one blessed individual to only have 280ms ping. Most people I play with are 500+ every day of the week.
Let's call a spade a spade here. You're just talking out of your ***.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-06 17:59:00
Instant with any sort of binds or macrofix on ashita.
no 2.5-5 sec lockouts if you make a mistake and start doing the wrong thing Move is used at fixed intervals and event is easy enough you can use a buff job to prebuff and do nothing besides barspells once engaging. Irrelevant.
less than 70ms actual communication time Irrelevant. The 1.3s to 1.7s is AFTER communication time has been removed from available time. Never mind that MOBA or FPS often expect less than .5s reaction time.
no phantom casting because of gear transitions Also irrelevant, as move is used in fixed intervals and you don't need to do anything else.
When's the last time you tried to play a shooter with 280ms ping time? How about dodging a rocket with 280ms? That's the equivalent of what we're talking about. Except, no. In a shooter, you have .5s or potentially less to dodge. In this case, you have 1.3-1.7s IN ADDITION TO your latency, and all you have to do is hit one color coded macro.
Also, you are one blessed individual to only have 280ms ping. Most people I play with are 500+ every day of the week. I'm not the one who said 280ms ping, the guy complaining is. But, I'd still love to see some data proving a 500ms ping. Maybe on satellite. I currently have a 181ms ping on my home connection(new england), and a PC full of bots being routed through a vpn is at 202ms.
You're just talking out of your ***. oh my god so much irony
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Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-06 18:10:32
Never mind that people are and have been doing it legitimately, or how minimal it is to throw up an esuna and a curaga and default to barstone.
I'll repeat. If you want to cheat, cheat. But ***isn't unwinnable without, or even particularly difficult. Pretending it is or expecting randoms to use an addon is just dragging everyone else down with you.
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6052
By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-06 18:13:59
No matter the "tools" you're using, your inputs (and the resulting actions) are not instant. Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »+ 330ms packet interval each way
The game collects all inputs and sends them out every packet interval, which is approx 350ms apart. By doing the math assuming a 330ms packet interval, I already accounted for (essentially) the max possible input delay. You can add another 40ms if you assume the user manages to hit the macro exactly as a packet interval passes every time, but since i rounded delay up to begin with it doesn't actually change the numbers.
The truth is, you just ignored an entire post dissecting every *** assumption you made and threw in some personal insults on the one point you thought you had.
By SimonSes 2019-04-06 19:44:01
It's not even close to 1sec+ for me (and im not saying about your math, I'm saying about actual situation). 2 days ago I tried to barspell and few times I had enough luck to have right barspell targeted in menu (had barthundra already selected before I saw thunder warble in chat), so I clicked it easily under 1 sec after I saw info in chat and my character haven't even started casting before I got stunned from warble. I would need to click it in like 0.1 sec and then maybe I would succeed in the scenario. When I said about 280ms ping it was when Im standing still in Mhaura. It's probably much worse when in battle inside Ambuscade.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 19:46:56
It is physically impossible to cast the proper spell. No matter how much you practice. You can only get lucky. If you're in the menu sitting on "baraero" and it uses Aero Meeble warble, You might be able to hit enter twice fast enough. But if it uses Fire Meeble Warble. You will not hit up three times and enter twice in time. and you sure as ***aint typing it out.
With the lag/delay/whatever first, you HAVE to be running battlemod. That makes warble show up in chat faster. (or I guess you could use Ohshi if you add the meeble and his moves)
Then you have to make the 6 macros. and be waiting to hit it. Hopefully you pick the right one.
..............................or you turn on react and enjoy the IQ boost
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-06 20:09:03
Macro palette 1-6 (Ctrl) (use left hand pinky finger on keyboard)
Label each macro as the element
Memorize the element order with muscle memory
(Set daily buffs roe)
Hold control button as bar speller
Keep four fingers (right hand on keyboard) over 2345, you'll have to quick react for 1&6
Use Battlemod
Full-time in fast cast set
Every 25 seconds, get ready to guess or react properly
As soon as you see the element, press the corresponding number
Pray you didn't cast the wrong one.
This is the best way I can see a manually doing barspells with the least error. Using the menu will not work. You will get unlucky and fat finger a few spells but in this case you have already set yourself up for one specific task. No different than stunning zerde, just have to be diligent. No way you'll beat a program and if you lag, tough.
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2019-04-06 20:42:42
Why would people cheat to beat this Ambuscade? I don't get it.
Just did around 10+ runs on VD, it was cake. None of us used any cheat or any crazy plugins as far as I know.
It's easy as *** free month with the setup posted on previous page, you'd have to be one hell of a shitter to have to resort to cheating for this month.
By Cpu 2019-04-06 20:53:38
Macro palette 1-6 (Ctrl) (use left hand pinky finger on keyboard)
Label each macro as the element
Memorize the element order with muscle memory
(Set daily buffs roe)
Hold control button as bar speller
Keep four fingers (right hand on keyboard) over 2345, you'll have to quick react for 1&6
Use Battlemod
Full-time in fast cast set
Every 25 seconds, get ready to guess or react properly
As soon as you see the element, press the corresponding number
Pray you didn't cast the wrong one.
This is the best way I can see a manually doing barspells with the least error. Using the menu will not work. You will get unlucky and fat finger a few spells but in this case you have already set yourself up for one specific task. No different than stunning zerde, just have to be diligent. No way you'll beat a program and if you lag, tough. Just make windower aliases that are all //bara, //barw, etc. and then sit there with //bar typed in. When you see the move go off type the first letter of the element name and hit enter. You see aero you hit a + enter. No mappings to memorize.
You can be pretty quick with these methods but react will be quicker.
[+]
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 20:59:57
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »Why would people cheat to beat this Ambuscade? I don't get it.
Just did around 10+ runs on VD, it was cake. None of us used any cheat or any crazy plugins as far as I know.
It's easy as *** free month with the setup posted on previous page, you'd have to be one hell of a shitter to have to resort to cheating for this month.
If someone is accurately putting up bars, they're using react. No if's and's or but's
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2019-04-06 21:25:30
Cerberus.Senkyuutai said: »Why would people cheat to beat this Ambuscade? I don't get it.
Just did around 10+ runs on VD, it was cake. None of us used any cheat or any crazy plugins as far as I know.
It's easy as *** free month with the setup posted on previous page, you'd have to be one hell of a shitter to have to resort to cheating for this month.
If someone is accurately putting up bars, they're using react. No if's and's or but's But is it needed to win?
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-06 21:57:33
Macro palette 1-6 (Ctrl) (use left hand pinky finger on keyboard)
Label each macro as the element
Memorize the element order with muscle memory
(Set daily buffs roe)
Hold control button as bar speller
Keep four fingers (right hand on keyboard) over 2345, you'll have to quick react for 1&6
Use Battlemod
Full-time in fast cast set
Every 25 seconds, get ready to guess or react properly
As soon as you see the element, press the corresponding number
Pray you didn't cast the wrong one.
This is the best way I can see a manually doing barspells with the least error. Using the menu will not work. You will get unlucky and fat finger a few spells but in this case you have already set yourself up for one specific task. No different than stunning zerde, just have to be diligent. No way you'll beat a program and if you lag, tough. Just make windower aliases that are all //bara, //barw, etc. and then sit there with //bar typed in. When you see the move go off type the first letter of the element name and hit enter. You see aero you hit a + enter. No mappings to memorize.
You can be pretty quick with these methods but react players will players are still going to be more highly skilled.
Using a windower alias. . . Isn't that like a step below using react?
By Cpu 2019-04-06 22:09:22
Yeah, good point. In terms of player quality from high to low it goes:
React user > Alias user > Macro user
So alias players are definitely a step below react players.
Ragnarok.Lockfort
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 252
By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2019-04-06 22:10:03
the method he describes is no different than using shortcuts so
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Quetzalcoatl.Commencal
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Quetzalcoatl.Commencal 2019-04-06 22:20:30
Funny how react pops up in discussions from time to time and no one bats an eye, but use it for ambuscade and everyone loses their ***.
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 22:22:06
Oh ***you can do that!? That can't possibly work with the new react... old 'reaction' maybe.
That could cause some fun.
Also, gentle reminder, it's been a minute, LITERALLY everyone, every single active player, mules too, should have a maze tabula for resetting two hours. There are no excuses for not having it. Even if you never plan to need it, you should have one.
And having said that;
How to obtain? Lower Jueno. Speak to Duplodoc. Copiable mazes. Pick one of the ones there with revitalization team. Probably the only ones there. ANYONE can do this. There are zero prereqs. (you might have to have entered at least once to start counting C.C.?)
<Maze Voucher 09 [1](5)> the last digit is the number of uses left until you need a new one.
Quetzalcoatl.Commencal
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 339
By Quetzalcoatl.Commencal 2019-04-06 23:03:27
Definitely can't do it with React. Some of the old ones were more sophisticated too, but not the one pictured above.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-06 23:30:01
Ragnarok.Lockfort said: »the method he describes is no different than using shortcuts so
Nobody mentioned using shortcuts?
Asura.Eiryl
By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-06 23:31:18
Aliases is just the mac version of pc shortcuts. Same thing. harder to do.
Lakshmi.Buukki
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-06 23:43:48
Pressing Ctrl+# is a built in vanilla feature
Ragnarok.Lockfort
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 252
By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2019-04-07 00:42:09
All he is using alias for is exactly what the addon shortcuts would do
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