Luck Of The Draw: A Corsair's Guide *NEW*

Same reason people have gear requirements for anything else, sure there may be some competent people excluded who don't meet whatever bar has been set to but the cost is outweighed by the perceived benefit of a higher entry bar to the group. I don't think theres anything in sortie that DP is required for, no.

Yes, people will aim for max dps when they build parties, and the post above already shows very visible dmg differences between the weapons, so what do you expect? :P


To my knowledge it's just a dps weapon like every other dd rema. Of course no dps weapon is "required" strategy wise but the more dps you can bring to the table as a DD the more likely you'll be invited and vice versa.

On a server with 3k people many has rema+8 cor and capped nyame, so you are competing with endless competitors who potentially has better dps than a returning player for a spot.

I've not done group sortie before I quit so I can't comment on that, but I did quite a bit of Odyssey seg farm, DP does make a difference on parse. If you lose several thousands of dmg every leaden, it adds up.

If you have difficulty getting PUG invite as a new player I suggest you join LS pt or start your own casual seg farm pt. As long as you tell people you are new and invite people who don't mind, it should be work.

I don't think you're going to find many cases where you can point to a piece of gear and say "this is required or we can't win." Obviously Leaden sees a huge boost from DP, especially R15. I don't know of any use for Leaden damage in Ody NMs, but I suppose there's somewhat of an argument for segment farming...maybe? Either way, you want to aim to kill things in 1 or 2 weaponskills pending buffs. A DP helps with that against Leaden-vulnerable mobs, making for a more efficient run.

I'm not so sure how important Leaden damage is for Sortie either. I'm not too versed in the setup, but I think Leaden is mainly used for creating skillchains for bursting. In which case, the damage from Leaden isn't as important, thus not a NEED for DP.

Maybe these people assume you don't have Leaden unlocked? Or maybe they're assuming you aren't as well geared /versed as COR because the lack of DP and how much of a staple piece it is for a "dedicated" COR. Idk, but I wouldn't take it personally. Make your own PUGs or make note of decent people to run with on a regular basis. I'm sure you're not missing out on much if the leader of the PUG is turning away a COR for not having DP in either of those events...

Certainly, but it's weird to see someone shouting for 45min trying to get 1 specific piece on one job for what's a daily event? It's not like it's V25.


What's considered solid segs/galli per run? I just did a meh run with some mistakes and hit 40k galli, segs, on avg. 10k-11k. I imagine DP could increase that or cover for someone dying or something.

~14k for Segments and ~50k for galli

Everyone has different value on time I guess. Personally I won't shout for 45 min, since I play 1-1.5hr a day so whatever amount of seg I get within that timeframe is segs for me.

But if someone plays 3hr a day I can see why that person choose to spend more time for optimal pt. You get one tag per day after all, so the more seg from that tag the better. Some people may also enjoy the satisfaction of getting full clear runs. Getting high segs per run is like getting high scores in video games so some people try hard for it.


Ideally you want to aim for full clear. Seg average is determined by every dd dps and pulling/moving speed. So dp isn't the only factor but it helps.

I think the biggest advantage of dp in seg farm it lowers the tp threshold for one shot kill. If you kill a mob with 2 ws you get less segs. It's faster to over tp slightly for minimum one shot kill TP threshold, it is slower to ws, delay for 2 sec then ws again with huge dmg overkill.

Our group on average (non-Aminon runs) gets about 42-45k gali. 53k on days when we get all 4 basements done. On aminon runs, we get 56k usually, Aminon + 2 basement bosses. One time we got 69k with Aminon + ABCEFG.

Those aren't average runs for the majority of groups. Just saying.

From doing PUGS I'd say an average Odyssey run is 10-12k and an average Sortie is 30-40k, all this 50k 14k is basically best you can ask for (barring Aminon in sortie and maybe 15k from full zone clear?) so yeah its hard to call that average expectations. If you're in a polished static then absolutely that'd be the goal, but it's top end.

I was not trying to convey general average. Just the average for my group, which I consider above average

Totally fair, this was more to Bippin who replied to the initial question of what an average looks like without context of his group specifically. I just don't want to give a returning player with questions on endgame a false impression or too high expectations.

Not really. Or, rather, I have no idea how "normal" it is to ask for it in a PUG, but it makes very little difference in both events. You'll kill elementals slightly faster with a DP and there are a few mobs in Odyssey where you can squeeze out some more DPS by having a mythic (crabs, primarily and the PLD Mamool in the Agon pack on the 4th floor), but on average you'd be much better served by having a decent SB set and knowing how to manage targets, especially if your DDs know what they're doing.

Question was not what is an average amount.

I guess I don't know how you define solid but I took it to mean a good run which to me for segments is full clear and for sortie is 8bosses plus some objectives. I have no idea what an average group does, that is just what the groups I go with do.

There are way more weak to leaden mobs than you listed.......


(I would put bhoot on hot shot list too btw)

Just fyi, the benefit of leaden on weak to leaden mobs isn't just more dmg, but also /ra to one shot. Cor can solo an entire group of weak to leaden mobs without a healer by using triple shot shoot > WS one shot kill from a distance > shoot > one shot kill. Depending on mobs layout this strategy saves pulling time and increase your dmg as the rest of the groups killing things elsewhere.

Despite sb is strong on f1 the higher floor you go the more it suffers, especially if your buffs isn't hitting max potency. Leaden is never hindered by the lack of buffs and one shots everything with triple shot on, which is another advantage since shooting for TP during TS increases dps without needing to move close to the mob. if you use GS you can even remove engage animation completely.

Edit: forget to mention another huge dp advantage: You can TP with rostam and use way stronger hybrid set and get more ws out per mob groups than SB. This shows on parses.

Also just another fyi, when I returned to the game more than 1 year ago I SBed everything except slashing resist mobs. After I made the WS list and use hotshot/leaden on all of the correct mob I saw a 70% dmg increase on parse despite my engage speed is always identical. although The massive dmg increase was partially caused by upgrading nyame and getting the attack bonus, but you aren't going to see 70% SB dmg increase from nyame upgrade alone, safe to say using non physical ws and triple shot as often as possible is really important for cor dps in seg farm.

I get that elitist PUG sucks but there is no need to downplay the power of dp(and fomal for Hot shot) in seg farm... it's that good.

Most of which also have no resistance to slashing, meaning they'll get demolished before leaden really has a chance to make a difference, if your DDs are at least halfway competent.

I've done probably more than a hundred full clear seg runs at this point, and the biggest factor in my DPS, by a huge margin, was learning to optimize my engagement and targeting. Yes, DP is good, but any decent DD simply won't let you make use of it, because they'll be killing stuff way faster than you and there's only so many mobs to go around.

14k is the general full clear seg count in sheol c. Sometimes more depending if you maximize box potential and or if you do random pops.

Agreed, I think I made that list when HS was a bit weaker (lower ML/augs) and more testing was required, Puks/Colibris are also better to HS. There's a blurry line between Leaden/Savage of which is better to use on mobs, it's not as clear cut as it used to be.

Fully agree with effective targeting is the most essential thing for any DPS but I don't agree with other DPS not letting you make use of Leaden. As Afania said, soloing groups of mobs is one of the most effective things a COR can do and there's no DPS to compete with. On higher floors it becomes harder and harder to one shot with Savage but still relatively easy to one shot with Leaden, you do have to save up to 2k~ but you have Rostams to help with that, which TPs faster than Naegling and you only have to use 1 WS.

I think COR of all the jobs needs to make use of all of its tools and learn how to use them effectively (that's what makes it the best job in the game!!). DP/Fomal isn't mandatory in there, I have hit 5.5m just from Savage but having those options allows for the higher numbers.

PUGs just yell for certain things for 2 reasons; ignorance or that the person with R15 DP is on average more reliable than one without. Note: I have seen some terrible R15 DP CORs and some really good CORs that don't have DP.

This sounds like suggesting to rely on other pt members to optimize instead of trying to be the one who optimize....kinda sad to hear this on cor forum. :( :( :(

If one day you d/c or died then pt proceed to full clear anyways, would you argue that good gears doesn't make a difference because you cleared without full participation? Nevermind the fact that the one who posted it didn't even full clear in PUG.

As gears getting stronger over the years full clear should be more and more common as average dd power increase, so all the cor good gears "doesn't make a difference" in the future because everyone else can do the dmg?

I only speak about math and parse. Your group's DD capability doesn't matter, especially doesn't matter to a returning player who isn't in your group, and struggle to build a reputation in PUG community for more invite.



But I would rather be that "decent DD" who land the last ws before everyone else, or the one who cleared groups solo, not the one who look at mobs die in other's hand helplessly... Only Rostam or TS has the TP speed that allow me to get the last ws on a mob more easily.

I think I might be biased to the way my group usually runs these and in a pug, with overall lower damage, DP might bring more value than what I'd normally get out of it in my LS runs. That being said, let me explain, where my original opinion comes from.

It's not a job loyalty problem, it's a math problem.

Disclaimer: the numbers are from my own parses, so they're not 100% accurate and there might be some padding, but it should at least be in the ballpark.

A full clear Sheol C run has something like 23 million of mob HP. A good heavy DD will do somewhere between 7 and 8 mil a run (and your group will normally have 2 of them), which leaves between 7 and 9 million to be split between the COR and the BRD. On a normal run, I'd do around 6.5 mil while mostly using savage (with the exception of crabs and lamias). The BRD also has no trouble clearing 3 mil. All of these numbers put together mean that if you want to optimize more on COR, someone else needs to start slacking, or special conditions need to be created for you (like having you solo a pack with triple shot), because like it or not, you're not beating a WAR or a SAM who's engaging the same pack.

At maximal numbers, it's a zero-sum-game, yes. However, improvements on the COR's part will reduce the WAR and SAM who have not changed their build/strategy/execution. This isn't them under-performing, its just the nature of a zero-sum equation, and its why overall damage is a limited indicator of effectiveness.

You are basically repeating the same "let other people optimize instead of me" argument here and still haven't address the fact that the previous poster isn't in your group nor they accomplished full clear.

So your "math" is irrelevant here.

We both said what we want to say. My stance is that if you want to have an excuse to avoid optimize, such as "my DD is too good" then go ahead and do it. Just don't expect everyone to agree with it or find it useful.


The solution to this is WS FASTER with a different build that isn't naegling.


It's arguably still a zero sum game without full clears tbh. Every single pull it's a race between DDs who try to land as many ws as possible before it's all dead. If one DD do slightly higher % in a pull than the other DD will do less %. It can't be any other way.

The difference is that your seg gain cap at one point so some people like the previous poster may feel the effort isn't worth it once full clear has been reached.

But imo the main enjoyment of playing a DD role is to do as much dmg as possible, even if the content doesn't need it. So the idea of "DP doesn't make a difference because other DD can kill them anyways" is tough to relate. I feel like ***everytime somebody WS and kill a mob right before my eyes lol, why would I pick a slower build that allows this shitty feelings to happen more often in a run >.>

But people can play however they enjoy I guess. If you feel optimizing for performance isn't fun for you then you do you. I would rather warp early after a full clear has been reached than sitting there letting and other DD have all the fun killing my mobs.

Do you think cor can WS Faster than a war with 2-3 mobs feeding it retaliation TP, or a sam with zanhasso, or a kc rng or drg going to town?

I don't.

Those jobs also don't have to take 2-3 breaks mid run to put up high potency rolls.

Cors can do respectable damage, and you can optimize it however you like. There is just a finite amount of damage available. At some point the only way to get more damage out of yourself is to gimp the others doing damage. Or lol sniping a bunch of 1% kills :D

I'm literally conceding that same point in the paragraph above.

My stance is that in an actually good group that the return on that particular flavor of optimization will be minimal enough that you probably shouldn't build a DP just for that if you don't already have one (if you recall - this conversation started by someone asking if they should make a mythic).

What do you mean by take "2-3 breaks" for high potency rolls and gimping others dmg exactly? Not sure why is this even part of DP discussion. You are entering the territory of strawman argument here.

If you would like to discuss the TP speed of X job v.s Y job under Z condition using math, and provide info on how often does Z condition occurs in a run, feel free to make an informed post with math or data.

If you are just going to post "lol no X job is faster under z condition so no need to optimize!!!!" with absolutely no other context then it's nothing but strawman argument to me nor it adds anything.


Sorry, don't agree. The guy asked if they should prioritize DP after they made the decision to make one, and they asked the dmg difference between guns so they can evaluate prioritization. I simply answer the question based on math, parses and practical gameplay situations like multistep SC, TS TPing and better hybrid set. and disagreed with your opinion that leaden doesn't make a difference. (You didn't even say DP doesn't make a difference, you said leaden isn't that useful if you play with elites lol)

To me strong leaden build opens up a whole world of different playstyle and builds, adds a great deal of versatility no matter where you go or who you play with. some other people also posted similar opinions. It wasn't just me.

Saying DP isn't high on prioritization list is one thing(I can agree on that if you are a returning player or don't care about the job), saying leaden isn't important because SB exists is really, really not accurate from a bigger picture pov. DP is certainly one of the better mythic out there because of leaden.

So Every other posts like "but war TP faster with retaliation!!!!!" Or "my group is so good so no need!!!" is missing the point completely. I fail to see why is this even a good counter argument for DP/leaden build. Even "I don't have enough time for ffxi" is a more reasonable anti-DP excuse than war retaliation TP speed lol.

You said just ws faster bro. All I did was point out that a lot of the jobs you’re competing against have advantages in tp generations.

Do you roll in a rostam/lanun path c dagger? If you do, the every 10 minutes you have to take a break from dps for anywhere from 5-20 seconds to get rolls back up. That’s 2 breaks guaranteed. Three if your duration is such that you have to put up rolls at the end.

Your other dps are still killing stuff during those windows, unless you make everyone stop so you can roll.

You’re very knowledgeable Afania, but sometimes you seem to wake up having chosen war with everyone.

I agree with your assessment of the value of DP. Every cor that is serious about the job should pursue it imo.

Of course they do, hence I suggest using a build with faster TP speed for higher chance to keep up. I didn't say everybody under all conditions will win every single parse by using certain build. There are many factors affecting the parse including human error, skill, internet speed, gear/job difference and luck. But faster TP build increases your chances and vice versa.

I hope that is clear enough.


Do you go with a tank-less setup so you have to disengage when you roll? Rolling and using double up has 1 sec JA delay yes, and initial roll lose about 200 TP(depends on tp return after a ws) switching weapons back and forth. Rostam C doesn't increase your roll time, it only make you 200 TP less after a ws when you swap it out. you can continue to kill things in offensive weapons after the initial roll as you use SE and double up and chaining JA into WS to lower dps loss per roll.

Edit: rereading wiki about PR now I am not completely sure about the double up keeping roll potency part. I know roll duration isn't decreased from UI if you double up using a different weapon so I assumed potency stays the same too...I guess Ill have to test and confirm it somehow or if someone else can answer...

If I need to roll mid fight Id do CC before the roll wears as we move to camp, then WS -> roll and switch weapons(1 sec JA delay and 200~ TP loss) -> switch back -> TP to 1000 -> double up or SE(1 sec JA delay) -> WS and repeat.

It's more like 1-4 sec dps loss per roll from ja delay most of the time, not 5-20. 1 sec if I land on the lucky roll on the first try, 4 sec if I use double up/SE 3 times for that roll. It is rarely more than 5-6 sec ja delay dps loss to complete a roll. If you didn't chain each SE/Double-up into a WS the delay will increase so it's quite important.

If my first roll is done mid fight Then the second roll almost always happen as we move to the next camp so it's rarely dps loss for the second roll unless a mob group won't die fast.

This is not part of dp discussion anyways.


;( ;( ;(

double up keeps the roll potency, but every time you double up you lose time meleeing. You are an elite cor, my ffxi experience with most cors is not 1-4 seconds to get rolls up, but 5-20.

Even great cors sometimes get 4 1s to get to luck chaos sometimes, and you can do them in between WS sure, but you still lose time after each roll/doubleup. And there are 2 of them.

Overall, I like your logic :)

Sorry to derail the conversation, I have a question/am looking for opinions on Rostam.

I just managed to finally save up enough for a Rostam and was wondering if Path C was really strong enough to forgo one of the other paths if I already have +7 Phantom Roll. I generally play solo or low-man with 1-2 other players, don't have any endgame groups (though I'd like to start eventually), on a low-population server so not really any PUG opportunities. I have DP (not augmented yet, working on the 700 JP/week time gate) and 90+% of my playtime is melee, so was considering Path B.

It's incredibly unlikely I'll ever have ~120 mil again to buy and augment another Rostam, so if you were only ever going to have one, which path do you think would be the single biggest upgrade?

Well I’m pretty sure the augments are only active in your main hand so path b does nothing when you’re always spamming savage with naegling. It’ll help when using melee to TP for magic WS like aeolian, leaden, wildfire, or hotshot (hybrid).

As for path C, the difference is very small though important when doing the hardest content. For chaos rolls this equates to adding another 3.12% more attack. This is not 3.12% more total attack, it just raises the total on any roll by another 3.12%. For SAM it’s +4 store tp. That’s it, very small.

You also get a bunch of duration which is real nice though you could get there with a Lanun…

Personally I went all in on COR and made all its ultimate weapons so I went path C just to maximize my buffs since no matter what situation I’m in they will always be used. People always want bards to have gjallerhorn since it’s 1 more potency than any other option (until prime now) so I don’t see this being any different.