~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

Unless I'm severely mistaken, but I thought you needed to have claim on a mob for Sentinel to work (not including Ambuscade).

It's for the enmity boost during sentinel.

Are you aware that the person who claims the mob gets a +200 CE bonus? If this test isn't accounting for that, then it pretty much invalidates the test. Flash is only 180 CE base. The claim bonus would be granting more CE than the test spell. So whoever casts first(claims the mob) is getting a bit more than double the CE value.

Also, it would be much better to be casting in +/-0 enmity gear. Makes for fewer factors to account for, and simplifies determining exact enmity values.

Tried my own test. PLD/WAR and RUN/PLD both naked, same enmity merits. Provoke and Sentinel have the same VE, mob should always go for the person using Sentinel though due to the +100 enmity.

Both Flashed (RUN first), PLD Provoke, RUN Sentinel > mob went for RUN.

Both Flashed (RUN first), RUN Sentinel, PLD Provoke > mob went for RUN.

Both Flashed (PLD first), PLD Provoke, RUN Sentinel > mob went for PLD.

Both Flashed (PLD first), RUN Sentinel, PLD Provoke > mob went for PLD.

No Flash, PLD Provoke, Run Sentinel > mob went for PLD.

No Flash, RUN Sentinel, PLD Provoke > mob went for PLD.

EDIT: Forgot about claim bonus FML.

I'm not at all certain that sentinel's +100 enmity bonus applies to the action of using sentinel itself... I mean, if it did, then Sentinel would have to be 900 VE base since it'd be impossible to use sentinel without getting that +100 enmity. And thus impossible to test sentinel without it.

The following procedure should let you determine if they are the same and if not allow you to determine the exact enmity value in the same test.

PLD/any sub
RUN/BRD with access to threnodies.
Enmity +/- 0 on both

PLD main claims with Flash. 180 CE+200 CE claim bonus. 380 CE
RUN uses Sentinel, then flashes.

Sentinel gave no VE due to not being on the hate list, so no need to wait out the extra VE. If sentinel gives +100 enmity then RUN would be at 360 CE now. Here's where things get slightly awkward. We need 20 CE to match the PLD's CE exactly. and casting 20 1 CE spells would suck. So we turn to one of the best jobs/subjobs for enmity testing. BRD.

The RUN/BRD casts a Threnody on the mob, gaining 20 CE, putting him at 380 CE total.(Be sure to let sentinel wear off first, or you'd get 40 CE.)

The RUN and PLD should now be exactly matched CE wise, with the mob staying on the RUN since he was the last to act. You can confirm the tie by casting 0 CE enhancing magic like protect, barspells etc. If CE is tied then the mob will always stay on the last person to act.

If we got a Tie, then /PLD sentinel give +100 enmity during its effect. The test ends. Otherwise...

If CE Tie was not achieved, and the mob is still on the PLD then sentinel gives less than +100 CE when subbed. At this point, you'd have the RUN cast threnodies til he takes hate and keeps it. Now you know that the two are within 20 CE of each other. This may already be enough to calculate the enmity bonus, but if you want to be precise then at this point you can have the PLD start casting cures for 0 HP(needs to cure for 0 for 1 CE). this lets you determine the exact CE of the RUN based on when the PLD overtakes them

There are probably more time efficient test methods than mine, but these give precise, certain results. And despite my longwinded explanations, the actual process is fairly short. Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes unless you mess up or lose count of something. It's just that I think it's important to understand what's going on in the background as you test, so you can correctly account for all factors.(like that claim CE bonus)

My rough tests were to see if it gives +100 enmity when subbed, and then one more impromptu test to ballpark see if it was +50; thus, the additional 200 CE from claiming doesn't matter much.

For the first test, if Sentinel gave Enmity +100 subbed, then the PLD should have had ~1966 VE (as my flash happened about a half second after his) and 480 CE for ~2446, while the RUN should have had ~2466 VE and 351 CE for ~2847, but the PLD still hate. Thus, it's less than +100.

For the second test, the PLD should have had ~1582 VE and 426 CE for ~2008, but the PLD still had hate, meaning that /pld sentinel doesn't seem to even give +50 enmity, which would give the RUN ~2228.

I tried a simple method, not as precise as Martel's but I think it's precise enough: both players WAR/PLD with no gear and no enmity merits (edit: Player 1 has -5 enmity merits, damn you Flareon...). Player 1 pulled with Provoke and waited until all VE expired (so, sat with 190 CE). Then Player 2 used Sentinel (while still outside of hate list) then Provoke'd. Player 2 lost hate after 42 seconds (42*60 = 2520 VE lost), what means his Provoke generated something around 2650-2710 VE. Since 2700 = 1800 * 1.5, I think /PLD's Sentinel enmity bonus is probably +50.

For Turtle gear Legs: Considering all contribute equally to PDT/MDT cap and Cure Potency Received is already capped at 30%:

Souv +1: DEF136,HP162,MP41,VIT23,,MEVA86,MDB3,E-9,Charm+20
AF +3: DEF151,HP163,MP85,VIT31,MEVA84,MDB4,E-7
Relic +3: DEF151,HP72,MP100,VIT36,MEVA84,MDB5,E-9

My first reaction is that I should get rid of my Souv +1 (ouch) for one of the other two. But can't decide if, all battles being equal (I know they aren't just to find a "standard") would the nearly 100 HP from AF trump the slight MP,VIT,MDB and Enmity from the Relic?

It's all situational but what does first glance tell you? I honestly just want to focus on one or the other just not sure which.

Any thoughts on the above?

Similar question with bodies but I’m leaning Souv. for the massive enmity but I’d be losing 80~ HP from AF+3. No enmity issues, now, which has me leaning AF. Thoughts on this, as well?

Legs: I'd still do Souv myself. The primary logic being that it's DT not PDT/MDT. Meaning it also works on breath damage. So all around defense. The legs and set bonus are a part of capping DT/BDT.

The body, well. I actually really like Souv+1 with the refresh augment, which doesn't have all that much HP. Have a C path as well for the super enmity. Thing is, I still have 3k+ HP even using the refresh souv, and it's hard to get much more HP in my FC and casting sets. So I don't see losing the HP on the body to be much of an issue. Btw, I have a bunch of High HP sets list on AH if you're interested, although I haven't been playing recently so none of them integrate and Relic+2/3.

I started another character to go through the story again and picked PLD as I never really played it when I used to play a lot. Have a few questions:

What sort of gear should I aim for first? Was focusing on upgrading my AF to +1 at least then trying to get some +1 Ambuscade gear. Also working on an Aegis but have the Priwen for now

On the subject of Ambuscade, What would a good cape be to build?

Any tips and tricks in general for playing PLD? This is quite out of my comfort zone, I used to blink/MNK tank a lot back in the day but never PLD.

Any advice would be awesome.

I wouldn't upgrade all AF+1, NQ Souveran will get you through tanking while you upgrade your gear. Cap your -DT, enmity, proper equipment swaps for JAs first and foremost. Can worry about fast cast, divine, spell interruption, etc. after you have more gear options. HP/ENM/MEVA is a good cape to start on.

Excluding ja/spells, is it still correct that enmity+ gear helps hold hate? IE. auto-attack and taking damage maintains hate better with higher enmity+ gear? Sorry for not using correct terminology, getting used to the game again. Got a mix of gear like nq Sulevia's and full Cab+1 and wasn't sure if I should just be swinging in Cab+1. From reading previous posts, it's sounding like maybe I should until if/when I get Souveran?

Enmity + gear modifies the CE and VE gained from actions by a % value. I.E. +1 enmity = CE/VE gained +1%.

It also reduces the CE lost via taking damage by and unknown amount. (The testing for that stuff is a real PITA.)

That being said, the enmity gain from dealing damage was nerfed several times, and is no longer the most effective source of enmity. So while melee'ing in enmity+ does provide benefits they are mostly minor compared to the effects of swapping in enmity+ gear on your enmity generating actions(flash, cures, JA's etc)

TLDR: You can idle/melee in enmity+ and it does help a little. But I wouldn't make it the focus of your sets. Swapping in enmity is more important on high enmity actions like flash, etc

EDIT. Also, Xenogears avatar ftw.

Gotcha. Then as much as it pains me to swing in nq gear, it sounds like Sulevia's is better to swing in vs. Cab. Then macro in Cab for actions. It's kinda weird since there's no enmity on the set at all though.


Right? Such an awesome game. Still one of my all time favorite rpg's.

Wouldn't idling in higher HP in regards to enmity be better than idling in enmity+ gear? Been curious just for the sake of the discussion, not saying that is the best tanking gear or anything. I've never known actually how much HP helps when it comes to enmity retention.

While HP's exact effect on CE loss is known, the value of enmity+ gear on CE loss is not. Frankly, we have no freaking clue how much each point of enmity+ affects CE loss.(testing that stuff is a huge pain in the ***.) So that's not really a question that can be answered atm.

That said, Idling in HP+ is dual fold. You're harder to kill, and have less CE loss, so it's good in that sense. And well, a lot of the best high HP+ gear has enmity+ on it anyway(souveran+1, dat C path, etc)

However... Idling in too much HP can be a bit counter productive. You have to make sure your make HP isn't dropping below your idle HP for you various actions. And this can be quite a challenge to balance.

While the link up above does provide the formula for CE loss, I've tossed together a quick chart that should give you an idea of how much HP affects CE loss.

Thanks Martel

Good day fellow plds, simple question today, is there any reason to make the Sritvasa shield other than lockstyle? Already got Ochain, Aegis and Priwen, is there any content where this shield shines or is needed, farming beads in my server is a pita during NA time, so not sure if making it is any good idea at all, thanks as usual.

IF, and that's a fairly big if, you are ok with shield swapping for various actions, Srivatsa has the highest HP and enmity+ in the sub slot. So it has some potential there. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of constantly wiping my TP, and dropping my defenses by swapping out Aegis or Ochain all the time.

Anyway, that's basically all the thing is good for. What were you thinking SE?

By marvel, picked Anguta for my still dusty DRK lol

Full pack PLD.lua + Buffwatcher

https://mega.nz/#!ikZBAQTB!9C5wj_B8yzyMD-NkzrCO6LnXmw4X9heZBNs-DkwiNGE

The zip file is not structured could anyone help me with the install past exp. tells me

windower4>addons>gearwap>data>PLD.lua
windower4>addons>gearwap>data>Instructions.txt

windower4>addons>gearwap>libs>9 Mote named files

But there are 6 files i'm unsure of and i could be wrong about the 11 files i think are right.

caster_buffWatcher.lua
caster_curesend.lua
common_info.status.lua
README.md.txt
Template.lua
User-Globals.lua.lua

I'm not sure where these 6 files go readme.md.txt doesn't look like a normal readme file looks like a lot of dev. info to me. Also User-Globals.lua.lua looks like it has one too many .lua so i think this was a typo made by the creator. I think the files go in one of 3 places but could go somewhere else all together for all i know.

windower4>addons>gearwap>
or
windower4>addons>gearwap>data>
or
windower4>addons>gearwap>libs>
or
somewhere else all together.

Any help would be great thank you for your time.
Manaroth

You need to put PLD.lua in Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\Manaroth folder.
Mote-IncludePLD.lua (and all other Mote files) in Windower4\addons\GearSwap\libs folder.
And all other in Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data folder.

I have put all you need in this link

I hope that's help ;)

Yes i think i understand the new file but i am wondering why the other files are gone.

Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\CharNameFolder\PLD.lua

Windower4\addons\GearSwap\libs\Mote-IncludePLD.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\libs\Mote-Mappings.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\libs\Mote-SelfCommands.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\libs\Mote-Utility.lua

Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\caster_buffWatcher.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\common_info.status.lua

Or do i need?

Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\Mote-Mappings.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\Mote-SelfCommands.lua
Windower4\addons\GearSwap\data\Mote-Utility.lua

Did the other files get merged with in the Mote-IncludePLD.lua i ask because i don't already have the other files installed from the 1st zip. I'm working with a clean install of windower which doesn't come with

Mote gearswap docs.txt
Mote-documentation.txt
Mote-Include2.lua
Mote-Include-RUN.lua

User-Globals.lua.lua
Template.lua
README.md.txt
caster_curesend.lua

and as i understand it i need a modded Mote-Include.lua not the original Mote-Include.lua which are not in the new zip.

Thank You for the fast reply.
Manaroth

So lately the feedback I'm getting about ochain is....less than stellar. But how outdated is it?

A billion years ago I did up through souls and have 20 horns. With this month's log in campaign I could use the points from mules to basically complete it. On the other hand I could just get 50 glavoid shells since those are a PITA.

I would say its a pretty low chance I would ever make empy dagger or GA but I don't want to "waste" these points on a shield if I will never ever ever use it. Paladin is a down the road job for me and other than hoarding sky abj it is not geared. Does ochain have any uses at all? If so Ill just finish it off.

If theres even a chance you will make glow ukon or twash... get the shells... regardless of how good or what you would do with ochain, glavoid is significantly more of a time sink than azdaja

Ochain is still relevant. While it had a bit of a low period when Priwen came out, monster levels have continued to rise and blockrates to decrease. Ochain retakes physical damage reduction supremacy once mobs hit about level 131, at which point Priwen's block rate is so low that even tripling it with Reprisal isn't enough to stay ahead of Ochain.

Not to mention that Ochain is, and always has been, more reliable. It's the unblocked spike dmg that kills you, not a gradually slide into death from no MP due to taking too much dmg(the lvl 75 model, often times) So while the overall dmg reduction is a good way to measure the differences between shields, I'm of the opinion that one was better off using Ochain even when priwen was reducing more total dmg.

That being said, while I do recommend making Ochain, Eiryl has the right of it. Get the shells if you have the slightest desire to make anything that uses them. Azdaja is very very easy to farm in comparison. Glavoid is.. ugh.

I think all the files needed is on the last pack.(maybe i'm wrong)

try with last pack to load it, i'm pretty sure that's work with only that

So how do you guys plan to upgrade capes ? We have a lot of viable options there :

- -DT can open another slot to different options
- Magic evasion and hope for more resists
- Parry / counter to block more melee hits
- Block rate to help when using Aegis (which is most of the time)
- Status aliments resistance

Could anyone post up a list of their sets for PLD, just starting to it play for the first time and I can't find any updated info on what sets to use.