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I can't wait for Ardor not to be useful enough to merit bringing an Rdm and seeing one of the few good DD options nerfed out of relevance because of a spell no one uses. This is one of the few times when they really should have taken a wait and see approach in my opinion.

Can someone Photoshop that old image of all the RNGs going to BLMs but with THFs going back to SAMs?

Sam? What kind of pleb wants a 95% hit rate? Blue Mage for sure.

With all the effort involved in learning BLU spells, it's too hard to bandwagon.

For RDM this just seems like another nice thing to have for the events we're already invited to. RDM usefulness bumped up quite a bit with Haste II and Distract II.

I'm not saying that Ardor won't make Rdm good, but currently Rdm is no where near as useful as Brd/Geo/Cor/Smn as a buffer. I would rather they add Ardor in and have a month of broken Rudras (it's not like content isn't already too easy without it) than get a job nerfed for a spell that might not even matter.

I did it! It doesn't take that long to learn the necessary spells.

An Example is: Smn is actually a good buffer now, however it almost never gets group. You need to be good enough to warrant the slot, and unless Ardor is absolutely insane that slot will be very contested. You're competing with jobs that buff capped haste, 90% attack, and other things.

Wait, so there are people out there that wanted nerfs to RS? Where's the fun in that? And no, I'm not being sarcastic...

People often take more DDs than necessary to events, probably because those jobs are the most common and usually most enjoyable to play (who doesn't like showing their epeen damage?). Ideal setup for stuff IMO would be 2 DD per party and hell, one dd being COR is perfect. Less tp feed, more buffs, and more focused healing. In this setup type, RDM is a strong job to add. With Haste II, BRD and GEO can focus on better buffs. Dia III, support healing, refresh 2, additional rebuffs and crowd control. Also with all that, the support has literally limitless MP.

The problem with Rdm is that nothing it adds is "good enough". Haste 2 doesn't cap haste and requires the use of Geo or Brd, both jobs that naturally cap haste without the Rdm being around. Geo obviously never wants to use Haste if it can be avoided, but the gain from switching 1 song from March to Minuet is pretty marginal meaning that Haste 2 barely matters. Dia III is pretty small also, compared to things like Frailty, Fury, and Chaos Roll, not to mention the problem of attack capping lately. Refresh, healing, and marginal buffs/debuffs aren't a really good reason to bring a Rdm unless you know the healer can't do the job.

Everyone will have a different opinion on what the best setup is, but I think it's safe to say that DD (Thf, Blu, Dnc, Sam)x2, Cor, Brd, Geo, Whm is basically the bread and butter setup for things like Delve and Incursion. Of course you sometimes do use 1 DD such as Koga Sam solo SC strats, but this is relatively uncommon. You could drop a DD for a Rdm or Smn but it likely won't be too efficient and is definitely not going to be normal because everyone wants to play DD. Corsair as your second DD also has the problem of not being able to SC with certain jobs. Also that slot currently would be better filled by another Geo or a Smn.

There are too many RDMs that don't do enough buffing/debuffing/nuking as is needed or gear for it properly so that they can excel at it. I think that is one of the reasons that most people do not go out of their way to bring them. If geared properly, it has a lot to offer a party but most people don't do what it takes for that.

Because Thf was broken, now they are fixing it. A dagger user shouldnt be the top dd in the game. Really, thf should be putting out frequent weak ws and jobs like sam and war should be massive ws that happen much less often.

really 1hander's shouldnt have a tp effect on ws damage where as 2handers should get a massive damage boost from tp values.

Then again this is SE so everything must be balanced. Each job should have a specific reason why you bring it. There shouldnt be a situation where you say, just bring 3 dd's. meaning they are all the same.

Our Marjami setup is: PLD, RNGx2, COR, BRD and WHM main party and RDM alone. I am usually the RDM.
My duties:
Haste II/Flurry II everyone including the WHM :P
Nuke on certain monsters (Colibri and MB)
Fully debuff every mob, yes they stick and paralyze procs multiple times even on the MB.

Can a GEO do this? Yes, but then they have to be in the main party. I think in content that is done lowman and has the ability to add a 7th, RDM is the best option since it apply buffs outside of the main party. Also, a GEO only gives 1 debuff at a time, where I usually put 7 or more.

Back to do earth, thieves. Garbage job, bandwagon-ed, then returning to garbage? Sounds like balance to me.

As you said, Geo can basically do everything you can, Flurry 1 + Coursers is already capped shooting speed so all that really does is allow you to switch Coursers to Samurai or something (Does Flurry 2 even cap shooting speed?). Outside Geos work extremely well because you can make them do two debuffs, so Frailty+Vex for instance will give the party all the benefit of a Geo without it being in the PT while the main PT Geo can do Fury+Attunement.

So what your saying is gimp thf and buff war and sam again?

Ranged delay caps at 70% reduction according to SE, unlike the 80% reduction for melee delay. Flurry II gives a 30% reduction according to SE. Normal Flurry is almost certainly a 15% reduction.

Out of curiosity, what kind of data do you have on Courser's roll? No English wiki, nor even the Japanese wiki seem to have any data on it.

Honestly I don't have any data, I've just seen many people say on this forum many times that it is assumed Coursers+Flurry caps shooting speed after adding in gear. Ranged delay is a real pain to get any real numbers on.

You are talking about 2 GEOs now, 1 main party GEO and 1 off party solo GEO. I am going to assume your point is to dump the BRD and the RDM for 2 GEOs. While I agree that is a viable alternate strategy, I'm curious if the WHM, RNG, COR and PLD are the same and the GEOs do not have Idris, how significant the difference would be. Even more so, if the GEOs are average players versus an average BRD and RDM.

I wasn't specifically responding to your setup, a Pld Rng setup isn't exactly normal. I was mainly responding to your saying Geo has to be in the main PT, in many setups outside Geo as a 7th is the best. Assuming you are taking 7, which honestly is abnormal in itself, something like Samx2 Brd Geo Cor Whm, Geo is going to be way better than having an Rdm in that outside spot. My linkshell has used this setup tons of times for things like Yorcia delve and Incursion because Vex/Attunement are great for those places. ***is situational of course, there are times when having Vex/Attunement don't matter and there are also times where having Haste 2/Dia III/Distract 2 don't matter.

I saw someone on a forum that said rdm is a waste of space. Clearly SE is wasting their time buffing a useless job.

I agree that like everything, it is situational. In play both RDM and GEO, there are events and times that are pretty much RDM only for me and others that are GEO only. Incursion with another stunner is a case of being pretty much GEO only since it offers much more.

Not to mention a Cor could create Dia IV through synergy with anyone being able to cast Dia II.

Geo, especially Idris Geo, crushes Rdm in or out of a party.

As for this update, it seems really silly to me to preemptively nerf these dagger WSs when Rdm is almost never taken to most endgame events anyways due to reasons outlined by others already.

If anything, I think it's just that skillchains in general need to be adjusted because it's skillchains as a whole that are making most content absolutely trivial right now.

That is the way it should be. think about it, oh no I'm going to poke the dragon with my dagger vs hitting it with a huge battle axe. Right now the axe tickles it and the dagger one shots it.

defending a job's buff because, you are a fanboy of it or because now you can do tons of damage and have crappy gear, isnt a solid plan.

they screwed up rudra's. now its time to fix it since everyone has had their fun. no more thf onry tojil runs.

Here's my question, do you think nerfing Rudra's will make people use Warrior? All it will accomplish is bringing the amount of good DD jobs from 4 to 3 (If the nerf is large enough), it won't do anything to make non desirable DD jobs worth bringing. They would have to across the board do huge nerfs to something like six jobs to make War desirable, at that point why not just buff War up to Thf standards?

I was hoping they were just buffing everything to crazyness before raising the ilvl I guess I was wrong.

What has thf had in years? It has been always the bottom of the dd pool since like..forever. Now it got a buff and all the war fanboys cry cause "it does more than my war." War was never meant to be the best dd of them all it was for a versatile I can use any weapon pretty good job. I can remember in mid 2000's when everyone was war cause you got buffs back then. I guess it's ok to get buffs if your favorite job is the one getting buffed but heaven forbid another job get it. It won't change me playing thief but you cannot deny its been at the lower end of the dd pool forever.

Yeah, lets get back to mnk onry tojil's...

/s

I excluded Idris GEO on purpose, Idris GEO crushes a bunch of things.

Is RDM or GEO or BRD always the best in all events regardless of anything? No. There are times and situations where one could be better than the others.

Meh, a knife in the right hands and used in the correct situation should be more deadly than swinging an axe or great katana around. Like stabbing a dragon in the eye when its distracted or in the heart when its exposed.

And the RS buff doesn't stop WARs DRGs SAMs DRKs MNKs from doing any fights. They were beating Tojil before the buffs and can still do the same now. Having the buffs actually means a THF that shows up isn't just TH gear onry.

I still see shouts for SAMs but there are more shouts that just say any DD which I feel is a step in the right direction.