So i was talking with Xilkk, what are your thoughts on this set
Item Set
Using the max haste set from the front page but swapped out a few pieces to increase accuracy some.
Was doing some research on Dual Wield so tell me if my thoughts are completely out to lunch. With /NIN, Max Magic Haste, and 25% haste from gear we only need 11 DW to cap.
So based on the Calculator
DW Calc
this would equal 40.25%
Now with the gear i have above i opted for more DW and less haste.
I have 23% haste but 13 DW, in the Calc this gives 41.99% delay reduction. Now the DW table on BG Wiki's DW page is only calculated for if you have 25% haste.
My theory is that having less haste and more DW is slightly more beneficial, but the big bonus is that you can get 5 more STP 1 DATK and 20 ACC from belt/earring.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
could also use hasty pinion+1 in the ammo slot if you dont mind the STP hit thatll near cap you
Asura.Beanen said: »
So i was talking with Xilkk, what are your thoughts on this set
With /NIN, Max Magic Haste, and 25% haste from gear we only need 11 DW to cap.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
With /NIN, Max Magic Haste, and 25% haste from gear we only need 11 DW to cap.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
If you need 11 to cap why not put 10 Dual Wield on the Cape instead of the 10 STP? Does it ruin an X-hit?
Remember you can get 1% haste from the Green Wyvern cheer.
[+]
Kinda a minor point, but I don't see people using underleveled pets much.
PrestoJulio can land Soporific just great on Macrocosmic orb fights. at least level D.
I'll have to try it in Dynamis, because I had alot of fun with it in the bcnm. Sheep song is so disappointing because it just doesn't seem to work well anywhere.
Dark based sleep for bst means soporific, but ofcourse flytrap pet is not level 119.
but we have a really nice selection of pet macc gear. so all those AoE debuffs on Julio land quite well.
PrestoJulio can land Soporific just great on Macrocosmic orb fights. at least level D.
I'll have to try it in Dynamis, because I had alot of fun with it in the bcnm. Sheep song is so disappointing because it just doesn't seem to work well anywhere.
Dark based sleep for bst means soporific, but ofcourse flytrap pet is not level 119.
but we have a really nice selection of pet macc gear. so all those AoE debuffs on Julio land quite well.
[+]
Kronkeykong said: »
Asura.Beanen said: »
So i was talking with Xilkk, what are your thoughts on this set
With /NIN, Max Magic Haste, and 25% haste from gear we only need 11 DW to cap.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
With /NIN, Max Magic Haste, and 25% haste from gear we only need 11 DW to cap.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
If you need 11 to cap why not put 10 Dual Wield on the Cape instead of the 10 STP? Does it ruin an X-hit?
So the point of what i brought up was that you can undercap haste by 2% and get more dual wield in order to increase your total delay reduction therefore increasing your hits. STP is best for overall dmg. With the belt/gloves from the set i linked you have 13 DW but with that set you only have 23% haste.
I was not trying to say that I am under capped on haste I was wondering everyone's thoughts on being a little under haste cap therefore letting you get more DW may be slightly more beneficial to your overall damage as more delay reduction = more hits = more WS.
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
After more consideration and discussion, I agree that Aerix' BST TP set is superior.
ItemSet 362711
Artio's mantle: DEx/Acc/Att/STP
Valorous: STP 7~8 / Acc / dex
According to the DPS spreadsheet, Argosy D +1 set in the Guide has 514 cycle time and 3.28 Rounds per wS (when using blurred axe/Hatxiik for offhand).
However, Aerix set above is 516 cycle time and 3.30 Rounds/WS.
This difference is Completely insignificant for tp set. They are Indistinguishable from a TP perspective. The Argosy set has slightly more white damage, but I consider that very negligible as well.
What makes a bigger difference are the defensive stats. Argosy has no stats aside from def, hp, str, dex, attack, acc, DA, STp.
They are all very high Offensive stats. It shows that argosy set is designed for weaponskills.
However, the tP set Aerix made has 293 Meva, 14 MDB, 177 EVA, 2 pdt, 2 mdt,
Granted we can get much higher defensive stats from other sets, but altogether these defensive stats make a very noticeable difference.
It also has the advantage of being much more obtainable. Its alot easier to get 2 HQ abjurations than 5. Although it may take some time getting the right augments on valorous, it seems more obtainable in my opinion.
ItemSet 362711
Artio's mantle: DEx/Acc/Att/STP
Valorous: STP 7~8 / Acc / dex
According to the DPS spreadsheet, Argosy D +1 set in the Guide has 514 cycle time and 3.28 Rounds per wS (when using blurred axe/Hatxiik for offhand).
However, Aerix set above is 516 cycle time and 3.30 Rounds/WS.
This difference is Completely insignificant for tp set. They are Indistinguishable from a TP perspective. The Argosy set has slightly more white damage, but I consider that very negligible as well.
What makes a bigger difference are the defensive stats. Argosy has no stats aside from def, hp, str, dex, attack, acc, DA, STp.
They are all very high Offensive stats. It shows that argosy set is designed for weaponskills.
However, the tP set Aerix made has 293 Meva, 14 MDB, 177 EVA, 2 pdt, 2 mdt,
Granted we can get much higher defensive stats from other sets, but altogether these defensive stats make a very noticeable difference.
It also has the advantage of being much more obtainable. Its alot easier to get 2 HQ abjurations than 5. Although it may take some time getting the right augments on valorous, it seems more obtainable in my opinion.
Seen this set around a few times now in the forum in one form or another. What's the base acc for this? I'd assume that's where this starts to fail is due to a lack of accuracy because emicho hat gets zero and is highly dependent on valor augs?
ITs really not that hard to get stp and acc together on any valorous pieces.
I actually didn't bother w/ emicho coronet +1. I went with valorous mask w/ stp 6 and acc 25 augments.
I can't check atm, but Pretty sure my acc is around 1250 in my lowest acc tp set. It depends alot on which axes I'm using.
I actually didn't bother w/ emicho coronet +1. I went with valorous mask w/ stp 6 and acc 25 augments.
I can't check atm, but Pretty sure my acc is around 1250 in my lowest acc tp set. It depends alot on which axes I'm using.
That was mainly my question although I didn't ask it directly: replacing emicho with valor head.
Asura.Beanen said: »
I have 23% haste but 13 DW, in the Calc this gives 41.99% delay reduction. Now the DW table on BG Wiki's DW page is only calculated for if you have 25% haste.
My theory is that having less haste and more DW is slightly more beneficial, but the big bonus is that you can get 5 more STP 1 DATK and 20 ACC from belt/earring.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
My theory is that having less haste and more DW is slightly more beneficial, but the big bonus is that you can get 5 more STP 1 DATK and 20 ACC from belt/earring.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
You would need 15 or 16 dual wield total from gear to compensate for only having 23% gear haste.
And remember that haste is better than dual wield. Haste will not reduce your tp/hit, dual wield will.
In my high accuracy set (4/5 heyoka) and max accuracy set (4/5 totemic +3) I find it worthwhile using emicho gauntlets +1 with Reiki Yotai for 13 Dual wield from gear.
This is because I think the loss in tp from 2 extra dual wield is not worth worrying over. I get more stp and acc from having telos and dignitary rather than using a dual wield earring and a lesser stp belt.
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Asura.Beanen said: »
I have 23% haste but 13 DW, in the Calc this gives 41.99% delay reduction. Now the DW table on BG Wiki's DW page is only calculated for if you have 25% haste.
My theory is that having less haste and more DW is slightly more beneficial, but the big bonus is that you can get 5 more STP 1 DATK and 20 ACC from belt/earring.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
My theory is that having less haste and more DW is slightly more beneficial, but the big bonus is that you can get 5 more STP 1 DATK and 20 ACC from belt/earring.
Let me know your thoughts or if I am totally out to lunch.
You would need 15 or 16 dual wield total from gear to compensate for only having 23% gear haste.
And remember that haste is better than dual wield. Haste will not reduce your tp/hit, dual wield will.
In my high accuracy set (4/5 heyoka) and max accuracy set (4/5 totemic +3) I find it worthwhile using emicho gauntlets +1 with Reiki Yotai for 13 Dual wield from gear.
This is because I think the loss in tp from 2 extra dual wield is not worth worrying over. I get more stp and acc from having telos and dignitary rather than using a dual wield earring and a lesser stp belt.
I did not know that more DW reduces your tp/hit that is very good to know. Thank you.
I tried out a few different things but my tp/hit was 104 with 23%/13DW and was 110 with 25%/6DW i imagine 11 DW would be right in the middle so yes I agree with you.
Bahamut.Unagihito said: »
Remember you can get 1% haste from the Green Wyvern cheer.
Thanks for this reminder. Added a Memento Cheer table to the front page:
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Hey, just dropping in after I randomly heard you guys were still discussing the BST STP set I made last November lol. I'm actually surprised it has held up to scrutiny so far since I threw it together rather spontaneously for Xilkk's MA vs STP thread.
In any case, regarding the set: it was actually intentionally designed to be a low acc, full damage, 10-hit TPing set, hence the Emicho head+1 to trigger the DA set bonus. Especially with the Accuracy bonuses from food, the new Kaja Axe and Blurred Axe+1, hitting stuff shouldn't be a problem until CL130 or higher. With proper melee buffs you might even be able to use it on Wave 2-3 fodder.
As for more budget/less random options, you can replace Emicho+1 head, Valorous legs and Valorous feet with augmented Acro pieces from Alluvion Skirmish. Getting perfect augments such as Accuracy+25/Store TP+6/DEX+10 is very doable and typically not unreasonably expensive. Perfect Acro should be roughly as powerful as average to slightly above average Valorous rolls.
In any case, regarding the set: it was actually intentionally designed to be a low acc, full damage, 10-hit TPing set, hence the Emicho head+1 to trigger the DA set bonus. Especially with the Accuracy bonuses from food, the new Kaja Axe and Blurred Axe+1, hitting stuff shouldn't be a problem until CL130 or higher. With proper melee buffs you might even be able to use it on Wave 2-3 fodder.
As for more budget/less random options, you can replace Emicho+1 head, Valorous legs and Valorous feet with augmented Acro pieces from Alluvion Skirmish. Getting perfect augments such as Accuracy+25/Store TP+6/DEX+10 is very doable and typically not unreasonably expensive. Perfect Acro should be roughly as powerful as average to slightly above average Valorous rolls.
Just wondering why the Ankusa Helm +3 for Primal Rend WS Set vs Fully Augmented Jumalik Helm? 10% WSD and higher stats vs 35 MAB and some stats. Just wondering what the difference is.
@Beanen,
Not a Bst, but if I had to guess it would be because it functions like True Flight from Gastrophetes or any of the other elemental weapons skills where the magic attack bonus ends up mathing out to more damage over the weaponskill damage. It ends up looking more like: is 35 from Jumalik > 10 from Ankusa? Yes. By 25. So use Jumalik.
Not a Bst, but if I had to guess it would be because it functions like True Flight from Gastrophetes or any of the other elemental weapons skills where the magic attack bonus ends up mathing out to more damage over the weaponskill damage. It ends up looking more like: is 35 from Jumalik > 10 from Ankusa? Yes. By 25. So use Jumalik.
Testing for the Dolichenus (final form Ambuscade Axe) WS Damage bonus.
No Skillchain - No Bonus
2nd Step - No Bonus
3rd Step - WS DMG+3%
4th Step - WS DMG+6%
5th Step - WS DMG+9%
6th Step - WS DMG+12%
No Skillchain - No Bonus
2nd Step - No Bonus
3rd Step - WS DMG+3%
4th Step - WS DMG+6%
5th Step - WS DMG+9%
6th Step - WS DMG+12%
[+]
Thanks for the test falk, can you possibly test on a multi-hit to check if it works like regular WSD, or if it works like the WS: damage stuff does. Im assuming the former, but doesnt hurt to check
@mhomho
The guide has Primal Rend WS using Ankusa though which is why i was asking. I was just wondering if there was some math or something behind it.
The guide has Primal Rend WS using Ankusa though which is why i was asking. I was just wondering if there was some math or something behind it.
It's not that hard to math just gotta take the time to actually add the stats up and do it
@Beanen, The sets in the guide look pretty similar between Cloudsplitter and Primal Rend with the difference being Primal Rend is light based so they use Weatherspoon Ring, where Cloudsplitter is Lightning based so it can't. Maybe that's enough to merit the change. They also have different modifiers, but the only other difference I saw on their BG wiki page was about Primal Rend having a dSTAT of (pCHR-mINT)×1.5 with a cap of 651 that Cloudsplitter did not have. So that looks to maybe mean the base damage calculations for Primal Rend is a little wonky where the base value is (the playerCHR - monsterINT)x1.5. So stacking CHR for Primal Rend becomes more important meaning Ankusa is more valuable for the CHR where Jumalik can be used for Cloudsplitter where the dSTAT is null (or a more standard value calculation).
@mhomho interesting thank you for explaining that
My turn for a question:
In order to circumvent the "A Barrel of Laughs" earring Hija Earring, could I get two Diamond earrings with perfect augments from: Ivory Key, augments? Can you get two or the same one? Is that BCNM soloable?
In order to circumvent the "A Barrel of Laughs" earring Hija Earring, could I get two Diamond earrings with perfect augments from: Ivory Key, augments? Can you get two or the same one? Is that BCNM soloable?
mhomho said: »
Could I get two Diamond earrings with perfect augments from: Ivory Key, augments? Is that BCNM soloable?
Yes, you can. And the BCNM is uncapped, so it's an extremely quick solo.
Nariont said: »
Can you possibly test on a multi-hit to check if it works like regular WSD, or if it works like the WS: damage stuff does. Im assuming the former, but doesnt hurt to check
I think you're correct in assuming it's a generic WS Damage bonus (since the WSDMG is happening on non-Decimation WSs).
[+]
The main page Primal Rend set using Ankusa Helm is based off my recommendation I believe.
I was running alot of tests, and Ankusa was coming out higher. However, its probably better to keep Jumalik helm most of the time. They are close in damage, but Jumalik usually wins.
At high levels of MAB buffs, Ankusa can pull ahead because WSD is a separate category, and because it has better chr and dex.
Part of the trouble is that the Weaponskills for bst in the spreadsheet are broken. I don't really know how to fix them and I don't think anyone else is trying very much.
Its also difficult to determine which set is best for Decimation.
The argosy +1 set is really good. however, Beastmaster actually has alot of good options for Triple Attack. The priorities for Decimation will probably bet Multi Attack > Attack > Str.
If you use skormoth mask, tali'ah body and Megahanda legs you can spike higher damage, but your lower proc hits will be significantly less than with argosy set.
I'm not sure which way would average higher damage.
I was running alot of tests, and Ankusa was coming out higher. However, its probably better to keep Jumalik helm most of the time. They are close in damage, but Jumalik usually wins.
At high levels of MAB buffs, Ankusa can pull ahead because WSD is a separate category, and because it has better chr and dex.
Part of the trouble is that the Weaponskills for bst in the spreadsheet are broken. I don't really know how to fix them and I don't think anyone else is trying very much.
Its also difficult to determine which set is best for Decimation.
The argosy +1 set is really good. however, Beastmaster actually has alot of good options for Triple Attack. The priorities for Decimation will probably bet Multi Attack > Attack > Str.
If you use skormoth mask, tali'ah body and Megahanda legs you can spike higher damage, but your lower proc hits will be significantly less than with argosy set.
I'm not sure which way would average higher damage.
[+]
Thank you for the Dolichenus Testing Falkirk. I'm still trying to get pulse weapon to do the upgrade for it ;.;
I'm really glad it works on non-decimation weapon skills.
Its pretty easy to make a 6-step with Patrick (and hermes ofcourse)
solo, closing with Fusion to light is one of the more difficult skillchains for solo beastmaster.
None of our pets can make fragmentation straight out.
Master's Fragmentaion is Cloudsplitter, being magical it will not give alot of tp return like the multihit weaponskills can.
Dolichenus should be easiest/cheapest/powerful weapon for master Damage.
It seriously competes for best master Damage against any REMA or Dynamis weapon.
Aymur is still my favorite, but I won't complain about more options in the arsenal. I expect like many others have said, that REMA weapons will probably get another boost around summer time.
The Ambuscade Spear is kinda ridiculous powerful.
I'm really glad it works on non-decimation weapon skills.
Its pretty easy to make a 6-step with Patrick (and hermes ofcourse)
solo, closing with Fusion to light is one of the more difficult skillchains for solo beastmaster.
None of our pets can make fragmentation straight out.
Master's Fragmentaion is Cloudsplitter, being magical it will not give alot of tp return like the multihit weaponskills can.
Dolichenus should be easiest/cheapest/powerful weapon for master Damage.
It seriously competes for best master Damage against any REMA or Dynamis weapon.
Aymur is still my favorite, but I won't complain about more options in the arsenal. I expect like many others have said, that REMA weapons will probably get another boost around summer time.
The Ambuscade Spear is kinda ridiculous powerful.
[+]
No idea exact base stats for bst but I'll assume 110 chr/dex for this. Bst has no innate MAB and +630 tp bonus from fencer. I'll also assume mob int at 150 for no particular reason.
The armor set in the guide assuming max SR augs has +175 mdmg, +116 dex, +131 chr, +143 mab and +32 wsd. Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,367
3k tp ~ 11,014 147
Replacing with maxed Juma helm the set would be 195 mdmg, +95 dex, +106 chr, +178 mab, +22 wsd Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,515
3k tp ~ 11,175
That's practically the same dmg and small changes in dex/chr or mob int or just flooring could easily tip it either way situation to situation. But yeah as Xilk says more MAB starts moving things more in Aknusa's favor as would be say having your valorous having less wsd and/or more MAB on it
The armor set in the guide assuming max SR augs has +175 mdmg, +116 dex, +131 chr, +143 mab and +32 wsd. Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,367
3k tp ~ 11,014 147
Replacing with maxed Juma helm the set would be 195 mdmg, +95 dex, +106 chr, +178 mab, +22 wsd Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,515
3k tp ~ 11,175
That's practically the same dmg and small changes in dex/chr or mob int or just flooring could easily tip it either way situation to situation. But yeah as Xilk says more MAB starts moving things more in Aknusa's favor as would be say having your valorous having less wsd and/or more MAB on it
[+]
clearlyamule said: »
No idea exact base stats for bst but I'll assume 110 chr/dex for this. Bst has no innate MAB and +630 tp bonus from fencer. I'll also assume mob int at 150 for no particular reason.
The armor set in the guide assuming max SR augs has +175 mdmg, +116 dex, +131 chr, +143 mab and +32 wsd. Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,367
3k tp ~ 11,014 147
Replacing with maxed Juma helm the set would be 195 mdmg, +95 dex, +106 chr, +178 mab, +22 wsd Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,515
3k tp ~ 11,175
That's practically the same dmg and small changes in dex/chr or mob int or just flooring could easily tip it either way situation to situation. But yeah as Xilk says more MAB starts moving things more in Aknusa's favor as would be say having your valorous having less wsd and/or more MAB on it
The armor set in the guide assuming max SR augs has +175 mdmg, +116 dex, +131 chr, +143 mab and +32 wsd. Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,367
3k tp ~ 11,014 147
Replacing with maxed Juma helm the set would be 195 mdmg, +95 dex, +106 chr, +178 mab, +22 wsd Not accounting for other multipliers they share that comes out to
1k tp ~7,515
3k tp ~ 11,175
That's practically the same dmg and small changes in dex/chr or mob int or just flooring could easily tip it either way situation to situation. But yeah as Xilk says more MAB starts moving things more in Aknusa's favor as would be say having your valorous having less wsd and/or more MAB on it
Thank you very much your info and Xilkks explain this very clearly. I appreciate it.
Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
Dolichenus should be easiest/cheapest/powerful weapon for master Damage.
It seriously competes for best master Damage against any REMA or Dynamis weapon.
The Ambuscade Spear is kinda ridiculous powerful.
It seriously competes for best master Damage against any REMA or Dynamis weapon.
The Ambuscade Spear is kinda ridiculous powerful.
The thing I hope for is that they actually upgrade REMA's in the area of something within the weapon so they just get better as a base option. 30m for an Ambuscade weapon shouldn't even touch a 119-III REMA in probably... a lot of people's opinions. The power creep is there, why not throw the "bad" REMAs a bone rather than locking it behind a 100M Wall known as Astral Detritus.
Older weapons and weapons that carry bad weaponskills with them deserve a rightful pass of balance changes.
So been thinking about that primal rend set and really wondering about the hands. Got Valorous for 3 other slots and with those same augments valorous would smash leyline Totemic+3. Should be decently better than Leyline too.
Similar with valorous head though that would be closer.
Similar with valorous head though that would be closer.
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