Animator's Workshop: A Puppetmaster's Guide 2.0

If you have the ability to farm up your Rao gear(super easy to do) the eschalixers(also easy to do) and you hate random augments(I do), the cursed gear is a fine substitute. Eschalixers are going to drop in price eventually, so this ought to end up being a pretty cheap option for PUP tanking.

As I've mentioned before, you don't gear DT for physical damage. There isn't anything physical that is scary anymore. What you are worried about is magical damage and *** gimmicks(weakness, zombie, curse, ect.). DT is useful for those, as armor plates don't do ***against that stuff. It's only 3 eschalixers to max out a piece, which is going to be pretty close to what it costs to make a Taeon set with so-so luck. The only problem for the average player is the abjurations. But if PUP isn't your main and you want something to tool around in, Rao gear is a pretty good pick.

As for haste. It's irrelevant except for solo play. Anything meaningful is going to require thunder maneuvers to hit, along with double fire for any chance of holding hate. And you will probably have to drop the thunder for a light at some point. In which case you aren't going to hit anything and your haste just means you're missing faster.

That's on content over i130. Under i130, I don't think it matters. Whatever you are fighting is going to be destroyed by the real damage dealers pretty quick, so your damage is going to come more from the DEF down you can provide with the Ranger puppet.

There are exceptions to that obviously. And there are plenty of ways to skin the same mithra. Since I play BST, PUP and COR, I don't bring PUP to anything that doesn't actually require some semblance of tanking. So I'm only tanking content above i130, which I feel is a bit tougher on the Automaton.

I don't even find magical damage particularly scary any more. Auto Repair Kit IV and 5 water slots (with 100 gift) is generally plenty of protection with minimal need for DT- gear. Heck, toss on Shock Absorber III. And that's before we even talk about the current mega-powerful state of Repair.

I honestly don't see the point of loading up on DT gear in 99% of situations.


Huh? Even if you aren't using wind maneuvers: (1) gear haste is completely separate from maneuver/attachment haste, and (2) even attachments give some benefit simply by equipping Turbo Chargers with 0 wind up, and I can't imagine many scenarios where you can't fit the attachments in pretty easily anyway.

Gearing for pet accuracy and haste is not an either/or decision. Most good automaton haste gear equipment also has accuracy. So the real choice is between Haste and DT. As I said, I just don't find DT very necessary with tank puppets as sturdy as they are today.

Though to be fair, I'm a bit less impressed with pet tanking especially high difficulty content anyway. Not because it can't survive, but on anything like that your DDs are ripping hate off you so much anyway that you're an ineffective tank. I'll keep bringing a PLD or RUN for that kind of thing until they decide to improve automaton enmity tools.


Your logic doesn't compute. For Ranger puppet, more haste = faster Armor Shatterer to apply def down. Isn't that kinda the point? Though to be fair, if you're in a situation where you can use Sharpshot anyway it's kind of a moot point because you're better off focusing almost solely on DD from the master in such situations.

DD Valoredge at least has some applications in the current game, in the same kinds of situations where people love BST today (too dangerous for players to melee, so send in the pets). A DD-spec Valoredge doesn't compare with BST and its powerful ready moves, but can add some meaningful offense and even geared for DD is sturdier than a BST pet. I mean, yeah, if you play BST you're probably bringing that in such situations... But for people who have PUP and not BST, it's a viable possibility.

Currently both my Taeon Hands/Feet are +24 atk rather than acc/atk so I do need an accuracy piece for higher level content.

I also decided I should balance out my augments. If I'm not taking accuracy on any slots, I'm going to suffer for it and I do high level content on pup.

One thing that is SUPER good about the new Escha gear is that you can switch its paths without losing ranks for only 3k silt.

This means if things don't work out well you can always rebalance your pieces. Honestly, you could even tailor pieces for specific events. If I know I'm going to need all accuracy for one tough event I could go switch a few, and then change back later.

With the current campaign and rings, silt comes super easily.

So it's a combo of things. The less damage your auto takes, the less enmity it's losing. I use cure cheating with my SS/HQ frame and it's pretty effective. I've tanked the new 135 Escha mobs like this without much problem. It's also how I tank Plouton.


Gear isn't going to get you to the Acc levels you need for what I am talking about. The stuff I am talking about requires anywhere from 1400 to over 1600 Acc BEFORE debuffs. Depending on the party I am in, I might not be getting Drachen roll, or any rolls at all for that matter. And I am not concerned with the damage I am dealing, I'm just concerned with maintaining hate. Damage is an ineffective way of generating hate vs. the extreme amount of damage BST/SMN pets can do. Also, PLD/RUN require support, PUP doesn't. It's not god in every situation, but interestingly enough it's the best tank by far against that new 135 Morta NM.


I'll just pop a fire maneuver at the start with heat capacitors for the DEF down. I probably would switch out to haste gear anyway, and it would pump out armor shatterers faster, but I think the duration is pretty decent at 2k+tp, and I don't think the auto couldn't get back to 1k tp before it wore off the first time.

Anyway, I'm not saying that I am right and you are wrong. Clearly both things are working the way we want them to and we are finding meaningful ways to contribute to our groups as Puppetmaster, and that's honestly what is important.

I'd consider switching that attack for accuracy/attack. I have acc/atk +20 on two pieces, acc/atk +19 on two, and acc/atk +18 on one, I think? The attack path is only really good on fodder, in which case who cares? The pure accuracy path, you gain 25 acc over atk/acc for all five pieces, but there are some non-Taeon attack/acc options that should be in your highest-tier acc set.

Didn't know that about Escha gear and switching paths. That's awesome!

I also didn't know that, and yeah - that's awesome!


Absolutely, and please don't take any of what I have said as an attack at all. Your oddball hybrid frame for tanking is really interesting, so nice to see what others are doing.

With tanking, to me it's more a matter that it feels wrong that you have to do it that way to hold hate. VE/VE *should* be able to hold hate better than it does, but alas... I still hold out hope for some future adjustments in that regard (I mean, come on, even Trust tanks got an enmity bump this past update...)

Very good point on the Morta NM too! I'll have to keep that one in mind for pet burns.


By the way... do you (or anyone else) know if Target Marker/Attuner are effective on Escha NMs?

So, the 1200 point gift, is it worthwhile to consider? Looking at attachments, it would be useful to have the extra thunder and maybe extra water capacity for Valoredge, but not 1200 JPs worth of use, maybe?

I mean, it's nice to have. But adding an extra or higher level attachment is not going to significantly change your role or turn you into some massive powerhouse upon dinging 1200 JP. Honestly, I think the other gifts between 100 and 1200 provide more benefit than the 1200 itself. Which is a reason to add more JP, you're constantly getting gifts throughout that process.

I even find the 100JP gift overrated by a lot of people, though that's obviously a lot more attainable so no reason not to get it if you care about playing PUP.

Being able to tack on a stronger Acc or MAB attachment is clearly nowhere close to something like BLU 100/1200 JP giving an additional tier of every trait (of which you may have 10+ set at any one time).

I kinda disagree with Capuchin. With stronger attachments and how much they cost to set, it's nice having the extra. But the difference isn't all THAT significant.

What you want the extra capacity for is for Spirit Reaver.

I've been waiting a while to come out with this information, but I've been playing with it for about a week now.

Amplifier 1+2 overwrites Automaton's casting logic when combined. The Automaton will magic burst constantly with both set over and over. My automaton has doubled bursted a handful of times, but I don't have any automaton Fastcast gear. I'm pretty sure I can consistently double burst after I finish my Automaton fastcast gear, or at least every other cast when burst T4s.

Now you might see think that this is irrelevant, because Automaton magic is weak as ***, right?



11 PUP roll is my only buff there. No Malaise. And yes, Acuex are weak to fire. But a lot of things have elemental weaknesses.

I'm able to deal 60k nukes to delve 2 NMs, and was hitting between 30-40k on Delve 2 bosses.

I have more information but I am working and have to go. I'll post more later.

Oooh, oooh. I can't wait to hear more, was toying with this a little myself; was even discussing the lack of real attention given to Spiritreaver lately, maybe I helped spur you to do the testing I haven't gotten around to yet ;)

But I reaaaaaly want to see what you've come up with! Sets please (gear & attachments)! Knowing the strength of old school Ice Maker setups and the current MB/nuke friendly mobs we see a lot of, it honestly doesn't shock me that this has just been kinda overlooked. And yeah, this may well affect my thoughts on the attachment capacity gifts for MOAR ICE (doesn't really change my feelings about the gifts' application to VE or SS though).

I'm assuming that in scenarios where it's safe for master to melee, the master with a DD puppet is still overall better. But there are a lot of places these days where players staying out of range is effective/necessary.

Not sure I agree with Capuchin's post about 1200 Gift being overestimated, but he sure has a fairly good point.

If anything I think we can express things in terms of effort:reward.
Compare it the 100JP gift with the 1200 and you get an idea.
Doesn't mean the 1200 one sucks, but it's gonna take a whole lot more of effort and it's much less game changing than the 100 JP one.
Of course this doesn't mean that it sucks.

Personally I'm afraid I'll never be able to reach it on PUP. I have too many jobs and not enough free time to cap all of their JPs.
Plus it's not exactely the easiest thing these days to find a spot for PUP in a CP burn pt, compared to other jobs at least.

Been wondering about Spiritreaver this week. There's more automaton +skill with the Naga Boots and Empyrean Reforge Pants. Not that I think we would, but was curious if we unlocked any more spells with higher tier magic skill.

What does your set look like for the Master? Curious if its worth doing some of the reforges or if it's mostly Taeon.

The thing about Taeon augments for nuking is that only 1 of the 3 slots (snow) is especially important, with relevant augs being either Pet: Macc or Pet: MAB up to 25 (no combo MAB/Macc augment). While Haste from Leaf slot has some effect in that it reduces recast for specific spells (but no change to the universal automaton spell casting timer), it's a very minor concern.

While MAB or Macc Taeon are certainly viable, they're beaten in Head/Hands/Feet slots by gear with combo of good MAB and Macc (though Taeon is max MAB if you're purely focusing on that and ignoring Macc). For legs there are a couple fairly good alternatives that are a lot easier to obtain options (Empy or Relic reforge). So maybe not much need to lug around too much more augmented Skirmish gear. Taeon Tabard is very nice in a slot with very few other comparable options though.

For Esha gear, only 1 piece of each of the Naga and Rawhide sets are good from a nuking perspective, but both are EXCELLENT:
- Rawhide Mask (Path D augments of Pet: MAB+15 and Macc+20)
- Naga Tekko (Path D augments of Pet: MAB+20 Macc+20 MP+80)

I'm not aware of all of the D path augments on the Escha - Ru'Aun Abjuration gear (Rao and Ryuo sets), but base stats and paths A-C have nothing of note for puppet nuking. Nor do the path D augments I'm aware of.

For weapons, Nibiru Sainti D are excellent for pet nuking (automaton skill+20). So are good ol' Tinhaspa (base stats have automaton MAB+15), arguably better when you're solely standing back and letting the pet nuke. Even Rigor Baghnakhs (base pet Macc+20) are also still quite nice, though obviously a big downgrade if you happen to punch anything yourself.

Rings/neck are kinda weak (i.e. nonexistent), anyone have suggestions I may be overlooking? I don't recall any of the mini-expansion augmented rings giving pet nuking stats, but maybe I'm mistaken.

A very high end nuking set is going to look something like this:
ItemSet 337196
Possible Swaps:
Weapon - Nibiru, Rigors
Head - Taeon
Ear 2 - Charivari
Hands - Taeon, Regimen
Back - Refraction
Legs - Karagoz+1, Pitre+1

ItemSet 337195

There is the relevant gear.

Tinhaspa or Orhmazd with MAB will do more damage do long as there is no worry of resists. Taeon is switched between m.acc or mab depending on mob. Relic legs at 119 are an acceptable substitute for m.acc if you already have them, or just don't want to dump stones into Taeon. Rawhide, Naga and Nibiru are all path D, max rank. Argo mantle will do more damage than Contrivers, but I find the extra m.acc more useful on high level content.

Attachments vary so much based on situation. It isn't even worthwhile to list what I use, because nothing is constant. I'll give you principals I use when picking my attachments instead.

How many PUPs/SMNs are there to magic burst? Is there enough to kill whatever we are fighting in one burst? If the answer is yes, use Ice Maker. If the answer is no, but probably in two shots, use Ice Maker.

No, we have no idea how long it's going to take. Do not use Ice Maker.

How much magic accuracy do I need? What level is the content? 119 and below, Loudspeakers all the way.

128, assuming you can properly cover magic accuracy with gear, use loudspeakers. If not, use Tranquilizers.

135, Unless whatever you are fighting has a massive weakness to a certain element, AND YOU ARE BUFFED TO HELL AND BACK, Use Tranquilizers. Magic Evasion is incredibly stupid on 135 content, and you're going to need every bit you can get. You really need to know about whatever you are fighting to set up beforehand.

These are just my preconfig rules. I'll deactive and change things up in a fight if whatever I am doing isn't working the way I want, or I feel I can do better. I don't know everything in the game well enough to know the best possible configurations for everything. Also, before you get to 1200jp, you're a lot more limited on attachments.

Don't think those 2 points matter much? Amplifer 1+2 is going to cost you five slots, that leaves you with room for a Louadspeaker or Tranq 1. You have a bit more flexibility with 100jp, you could set a 3 of either. At 1200, You can Set Amps, LS4 AND ICE MAKER. You'll have enough MAB to break through damn near anything you run into.

The hardest part of using the Automaton to magic burst is getting used to the timing. The more people you have with you, the harder it is. Basically, what you need to do is not deploy your automaton until it's time to rock. The window to force a magic burst isn't too small, but it ain't that big either. The best time to deploy is whenever whatever is closing the skillchain does damage, but before the skillchain itself pops up. This almost always results in the automaton magic bursting. The times it doesn't, I might have just been missing the timing.

Also, automaton casting logic seems to be bugged. I was testing it this morning by soloing Achuka. I would make Darkness, and my automaton would, every single time, try to use Blizzard. Achuka has an extreme resistant to blizzard, but for whatever reason my auto would only cast that and not water. I'm not exactly sure how the resistance scanner on Spiritreaver works, but it doesn't seem to work properly with magic bursts. I haven't had a chance to try bursting level 3 SCs on anything else high level yet, so it might just be something weird with that mob.

Ideally, you want to set up the exact skillchain, or perhaps the level 2 version, to make sure your auto casts the right spell.

Also, you want to retrieve your auto after he casts his spell. It's much easier to deploy/retrieve your pet than have the person making skillchains coordinate around your pet's timing. I swear that little piece of crap loves to start casting RIGHT after the first TP move. And it's always Aspir or drain or something else worthless. Retrieving your pet prevents this and pretty much ensures you can magic burst over and over with no worries.

Also also. If your pets MP drops below 75% AND your timing isn't perfect, there is a chance that your pet will decide to waste a skillchain with Aspir or drain or whatever else you DON'T want. Above 75% with triple ice will always result in an elemental spell, and will pretty much also get a magic burst so long as the element is right for it.

Feel free to ask me any questions, but be aware that I am still testing all this stuff myself, so I might not be aware of whatever you are asking. And if you have any suggestions, I would love to hear them.

Edit: I forgot to mention that building your maneuvers with Midnights, Burana Earring and AF hands will give you an extra 12 INT, which is nothing to scoff at. Also also, 15/15 Overdrive is an extra 75 INT, which is absolutely massive. Heady Artifice is also quite good at 15/15.

Edit2: There IS a neck piece for pet MAB, but it comes from Monstrosity.

OK, fair enough. This is by far the best use of extra attachment capacity I've seen so far, definitely makes a significant difference for this application. (not that I ever said the 100 gift was BAD, just that in general for the traditional setups using SS or a tanking VE/hybrid frame, a couple extra attachment slots is a fairly minor buff for those situations)

LMAO oh yes. I used to nuke back in the 75 cap days (uber pet nuke Mirke, relic legs/feet...), and some things never change!

Ew. Yuck.

Also, for what it's worth, if you currently have a DD focused Taeon Tights (TA, Acc/Atk, etc.) and end up getting a decently augmented Samnuha Tights from Sinister Reign, Taeon become eclipsed in every way for all jobs that can use both. Got myself a near max Samnuha and didn't know what to do with my now outdated Taeon, so I'm gonna re-aug them for pet MAB.

I finally finished off 1200JP tonight and went into the Moh Gates to fight some high level Acuex and see what I could do. Sooooo...


That's with no food or buffs of any sort. Amp 1+2, Ice Maker and LS4


This is with Grape Daifuku. Pretty minor increase, tbh.


This is with Overdrive and Grape Daifuku. Basically this is what I figured was going to happen. That being said, I pulled an add and managed a burst with single ice for 56000. INT seems to be a much bigger factor than I had imagined, and has made me look at my gear choices again to see if perhaps I should make changes. Specifically Empy feet @ 119. I don't have them so I couldn't play with them, but I'll get them tomorrow and see how it goes.

I'm thinking that LS4+Ice maker add so much MAB, that the amount added from food is trivial. I could be wrong. Super low sample size. I do like seeing them 99999 bursts though.

Does Ice Maker add simple mab? I thought that it was just a straight damage multiplier.

If I remember the testing correctly it was straight MAB based on the number of maneuvers used, with 3 being ~60.

Loudspeekers add a static amount. Loudspeaker (5/10/15/20), LS2 (10/15/20/25), LS3 (15/25/35/45) and unknown values for LS4.

I seem to recall Ice Maker had a dynamic component scaling with something else (mab multiplier? damage multiplier?).
Now it turns out it's just a static value of 60?

Hmmmmmmm...
Well I guess it could be eh.

It's possible I'm wrong, that said if it actually is a straight amount like I'm remembering then it's understandable why it would have been mistaken as a multiplier back in the day, as 60MAB was a huge amount back at 75 and was already double what BLMs got natively without throwing in a Loudspeaker, that's a nice chunk to add in before gear especially during a time when MAB wasn't falling out of the sky.

I had thought it was a static amount as well, but looking back at some older sources, it seems to have a dynamic effect to it. I'll head out and do some testing at some point.

I'm pretty confident the level 75 testing showed a dynamic/scaling bonus, which was furtherly showed during the abyssea days.

It might have been changed with the plethora of patches we got over the last 1+ years but... I dunno.
Back then I think we all believed it was a straight magic damage multiplier, but it could be something else.
Mab % bonus was ruled out because it worked decently even without loudspeakers equipped.


Recently (one of the last 2 patches) SE addressed it as "magic attack bonus", but considering the knowledge they have of their game and the crappy translations, we can't really take their word for guarantee.

Old wiki has it listed as a percentage that works like affinity. I don't know how old that is, and the testing for it seems to have been removed. I do know that in the last version update, Ice Maker's potency was enhanced. I'm headed out for work so I can't do any testing, but if someone else wants to it would be easy enough.

Find a reive somewhere, take off all gear and equip the level one animator. Since we know the values of Loudspeakers, you could get a baseline from nuking with those. Could figure out how much LS4 is adding also. Then take everything off but ice maker and test maneuvers to see how damage is changing. That's how I planned to do it anyhow.

Finally took the time to do some digging and I want to apologize for the misinformation.

Source

20%/40%/60% Damage increase, not sure why I omitted the percentage signs in my head. :/

The values are different now, as SE said specifically that they adjusted the potency of attachments that consumed maneuvers in the last update.

EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POSTING

I tested Ice Maker and LS4 just now instead of eating.

Loudspeaker 4: 30/40/50/60

Ice Maker: 1.5/1.8/2.1


Ice Maker is the undisputed nuking piece now(So long as whatever you are fighting dies in one hit and you don't miss the MB). I don't have time to test amplifers right now, nor the ability until later. That's the last bit of data we need to nail down an effective nuking system for Endgame PUP.

Is that a multiplier applied to final damage? If so, wow.

Oh I know about the various hybrids people have used, I've just never been very impressed with them in application. Except that I found the twist here in Trulusia's setup was particularly clever in that the point of the hybrid automaton was specifically to overcome the glaring weakness of poor automaton enmity generation.


I'm optimistic about Spiritreaver myself, but be sure to keep in mind that this is no magic bullet that replaces the more accepted and much easier to accomplish BST strategy.

PUP nuking still requires a LOT more skill/timing and is more prone to annoying error (Aspir/Drain, missed MBs, MP management) than the far simpler strategy of BST ready moves - with auto-attack damage in between. And no automaton setup will come come close to comparing to BST pets on mobs that are strong to magic. Also be careful not to get too stuck in the "oooh big damage spike" mindset and fail to consider total damage over time (i.e. Spiritreaver is doing approximately NOTHING in between less frequent big nukes).

I don't mean to discourage everyone to figure out how to optimize this very promising strategy, but I do want to suggest a little restraint. I don't really expect to keep up with BSTs damage wise on a whole parse, but it's very nice to have a solid option to make a really significant contribution.

Hard part for me is just managing to try it out, as when we fight stuff with a ranged/magic/pet strategy (i.e. too dangerous for close up melees), I tend to find myself more useful to my LS when I'm on my RNG for pure DD (especially if we have no THF and my Bounty Shot is also our TH source on stuff like Escha NMs), or COR for buffing the pets or mages and adding some damage. Me going PUP generally means I'm being selfish and wanting to play with my automaton while doing less to actually help the group.

***
That being said... added Naga Gloves D to my arsenal yesterday, and lost a lot on Rawhide Head so Taeon is it for now :)

My current set:
ItemSet 336805

For the Taeon pieces, I'm currently doing Macc body, Macc head, and MAB legs. My reasoning is:
- For legs, I have Pitre+1 available for more Macc intensive needs if the situation calls for it, so the MAB augment gives me something a bit different.
- For head, I just got Macc first so I'll keep it, but I plan to replace with Rawhide D soon anyway so not too concerned there.
- For body, I'm kinda inclined to keep as Macc instead of MAB (I'm really not too excited to make ANOTHER Taeon Tabard), since on anything that matters magic accuracy and eliminating resists for more consistent good nukes tends to be a much bigger deal than MAB for flashier unresisted damage. On anything weak enough that the added Macc is unnecessary... well, it doesn't really matter enough to me to optimize perfectly for easy level content.

As far as non-snow augments, I stuck Repair+5 on my nuke head/body to give them some additional purpose, since Leaf augments don't really do much for nukes. Regen+3 on legs, didn't bother with Repair there since I use Desultors for that. Pet:DT- currently on my dusk augs, but haste works too.

Also, with ice spamming there is a higher chance of overload issues, so even in situations where I'm using Tinhaspa (same logic for Nibiru) and not punching anything, I'm actually macroing Kenkonken in for maneuvers (as well as other burden reduction gear: Empy body, Buffoon's Collar, Dispersal Mantle). As Trulusia mentioned, use the maneuver+ gear too for that extra INT since it does help nukes: Burana Earring, AF gloves, Midnights if you have those.


Yeah, amplifiers are the one thing I don't quite get at the moment. It seems utterly bizarre that you'd need both to really encourage the puppet to MB, there's no other automaton attachment that requires multiple tiers for it to simply get the puppet to reliably do the associated action.

It would make a heck of a lot more sense that stacking the amplifiers (or tier II versus tier I) just adds some additional damage multiplier on MBs - as is implied in the "increases magic burst damage" portion of the description (though, yes, I know VERY well that attachment descriptions aren't always the most reliable explanations).