Bubble Trouble: A Geomancer Guide

What do we think/hope the new Job Point categories are going to be for Geomancer? Based on the number of lines left in the selection menu we could have as many as three categories to go.

I'd like to see these.

Luopan Regen: Gradually increases the HP of your Luopan, or rather counters its HP decay. 1/tick per job point for a maximum of 10/tick.

Geomancy Radius: Increases the maximum area of effect of Geomancy spells by 1 yalm per job point for a maximum of 10 yalms.

Entrust Effect: Increases the potency of Geomancy spells bestowed upon party members by 1% per job point for a maximum of 10%.

Any of those would be fantastic. The pessimist in me says that it will be something like this:

Collimated Fervor Effect: Increases the effect of Collimated Fervor by 1% per job point for a maximum of 10%.

I forget the exact, but Byrth was able to tell the maximum it could be. IIRC it was 24 total, though whether they'd use all those or not is anyone's guess.

All of your suggestions are surely contenders, but they'd need to be balanced with the proposed model of capping at 30 eventually. Increasing radius by 0.1 yalm, -perp by 1%, etc. I think a general increase to buff potency would be too strong for Geomancy spells unless it took a path similar to what Geomancy+ does, where a single increase might be multiple % for one spell but only a 1 or 2 increase for another.

I'd be surprised if Fast Cast doesn't show up soon as another generalized category similar to how many (all? idc enough to check) got +MAcc. I'd like to see a major buff through JPs or otherwise to Cardinal Chant. It's a nifty idea for a job trait, but unless you line up for MBs and really take advantage of that, there's just not enough reason to bother aligning yourself for more MAcc, MAB, or MCrit.

I apologize for the question but... how does it work exactely with debuff Indi/Geo spells?
I mean, which are the exact pre-requisites for a monster to be affected by them?
Do I have to be directly or indirectly in their enmity list? Is it enough if a pt member is?


Furthermore, when is the "perpetuation cost" calculated? I assume the second you summon a luopan.
And do the effects of Ecliptic Attrition and Lasting Emanation stack? In the right situation and with merits you should be able to use both on the same luopan.

if you cast indi before hand it will have you self targeted which might cause a hang up. Usually you have to cancel out your current target to have the bt apply. I just use <t> and manually target now to avoid that issue with geo- spells that need a mob target.

A party memeber being on the list will not apply your effects. YOU, must be on the monster's hate list for geo/indi effects to apply. Acting on the mobs directly, or acting on someone else who has acted on the mob works.

Interestingly enough, being aggro'd also counts as "on the hatelist" for the purposes of GEO effects.

Note that in Incursion, due to the weird enmity mechanics in there, once anyone aggros a mob, everyone is on the hatelist. So you're set the moment a fight starts in Incursion.

I'm not actually sure when luopan perp cost is calculated since there isn't actually any gear that affects that. There's pet regen, but that's not quite the same thing. Think of the difference between avatar perp- and refresh+ and you'll get the diff.

The only things that adjust Luopan perp cost atm are Bolster(only with JP) and Ecliptic Attrition/Lasting Emanation. Ecliptic Attrition/Lasting Emanation can't be used without a luopan present, so that effect has to be applied on JA use. For bolster, it could be on cast. But since the potency buff from bolster wears when the buff does, even if you have a luopan out, I'd tend to think the perp- would go away as well.

I think that, effectively, it doesn't matter when perp- is applied, since there's no gear that does it. So there's no idle vs cast difference to be concerned with.

I tend to doubt Ecliptic Attrition and Lasting Emanation stack.... since they share a recast timer, and you'd have to get a JA reset just to use them both.

Whaaaaat! Really?
I even went as far as recasting a Geo spell shortly before Bolster went out, guess it doesn't matter then. Has this been tested? :(
Vice-versa, I was told that Bolster has to be used before you use the Luopan for it to gain the enhanced effect? (similar to Blaze of Glory)

Nope!
Put merits on them, then summon a luopan and use Lasting Emanation on it.
It will survive long enough for Eclipctic Attrition timer to be up long before the Luopan's HP has died.
And this is with just Bagua+1 regen. Could be even better with more pet regen gear.
Oh and also let's not forget Life Cycle.
If we get more perp/regen gear in the future we might be able to fulltime Ecliptic Attrition.
Altough of course for that to matter you'd need a static camp... but that's just the situation in XP for instance. (Woh Gates map#2 bats! :D)


Edit:
All of this supposing those 2 abilities DO stack together. I was just describing situations where it would be possible to use both of them on the same luopan. I have no clue if they do stack, hence why I asked in here :D

It's been tested. And yes it sucks. I'm pretty sure that originally the potency stayed. But at some point it appears to have been changed. But no need to take my word for it. It's really easy to test.
I've always assumed that to be the case, but considering the potency buff actively wears when bolster goes, it would make sense if just using bolster applied to current luopans. But since I dunno for certain, I checked real quick.

I cast GEO-fury, and got 1250 atk. popped bolster and waited a bit, still 1250. Recast geo-fury, 1720 atk. So yeah. You do need to cast a luopan AFTER bolster is up. I didn't think to check an indi spell as well, but I'd assume it works the same.

This seems weird, till you consider that luopan potency wearing on bolster loss is probably a nerf that came later, and not how it originally worked. I guess SE didn't want bolster potency luopans lasting for ~10 mins after bolster was gone. Kinda embrava-esque.
Ok, you could do that. But I'm kinda questioning the point of it. It seems to me that by the time you could use ecliptic on the luopan, that even with life cycle, you'd have got more buffed luopan time by just using ecliptic alone in the first place. But I'd need to check exact numbers to be sure.

Hmmmm, I'm gonna have to make a luopan duration calculator. lol.

Also, I love that freaking bat camp. Ryu DRG+Idris GEO. splat bats.

Ok, did some testing and some mathing on this idea.

Firstly, Ecliptic Attrition and Lasting Emanation DO stack. You get get the boosted potency, and the perp +/- mostly cancel out. You end up at -23/tick with both up(normal is -24, btw)

However..... this doesn't mean that doing it is a good idea.

With +3 pet regen, by the time someone with 5/5 merits can use lasting -> ecliptic the luopan will be at 29%HP. You pop ecliptic, then lifecycle(assuming capped JP) and the luopan is at 64%. At -23 hp/tick, 64% will last 54 ticks. Or 162 seconds.

If you just used ecliptic, your buffed luopan will last 62 ticks(186 sec). So you get more buffed luopan time, by not bothering with it. And that's without even using lifecycle.

JA stacking these will pretty much only be useful with a JA reset after first JA so you can stack both early on.

I suspect(but haven't mathed) that even if you add more pet regen, the prohibitive wait before using ecliptic will sill make it not worthwhile over just using ecliptic alone.

And this isn't even getting the fact that you could be doing Blaze of Glory+lasting Emanation+lifecycle, for a 5:39 +50% potency luopan, then use ecplitic again on during BoG down time.(that duration assumes maxed blaze and life cycle JP. though. <,<.

Hmmm. That's appealing. Based on my calcs, if we could get 9 total pet regen, then a 9:54 BoG'd luopan duration would be possible. Again, using LE, and LC. With maxed JP.

I uhhh, need some more pet regen.

Kupo hat is 1 regen and -10DT, so you're not losing any DT or something for it. (Like hands is stuck with RF1+1)
Isa Belt makes 2 regen.
And RF2+1 shoes makes 5.
So....
Only 4 is needed for your 9... Not that hard to come by.
But at the moment, I can't think of any more pet regen....
Though wasn't there an earring or a ring or something?

The only other one I can think of is an augmented Nehushtan(alluvion skirmish club) But it's listed as maxing out at +3. Which would put the total at +8, one short of goal. Technically, you could wear two, but then you're restricted to dualwield subs, and that would really suck.

And it'd be pretty obnoxious to wear a pet regen club over Idris. <,<;; But, in the situations where you'd worry about this, the luopan wouldn't be taking any dmg anyway.

Also in case people didn't know, Blaze of Glory and Ecliptic Attrition do stack as well.
Neither of them stack with Bolster, afaik.

Yeah, blaze of glory > geo-cast > ecliptic > dematerialize > life cycle.

That's pretty much the conclusion to the talk about stacking Ecliptic + Lasting and/or pet regen. The differences just aren't large enough to matter when you'll be eating AOE, even if you have capped pet -DT. There's only a single fight that comes to mind that has no or so little AOE that it'd be viable, but Tenzen dies too fast for any of it to matter.

A JA that moves the luopan like that would be worthless. Letting you move it to your current position or your target's current location would be very useful though.

Your 2nd idea is interesting though. Maybe just add an enfeebling effect to that JA that no one ever uses... I can't even recall the name; pulse something or other I think.

Not a GEO but always wondered if there's enough pet regen gear combined with atmas/abilities/buffs to negate the Luapon's perp cost and let it live forever(assuming it isnt hit with aoe)?

I think that's the point she was getting at

You can negate the perp cost with enough pet regen, but there's a 10 minute hard cap on luopan duration.

After 10 mins, the luopan just despawns regardless of it's HP.

Oh, didn't know about the hardcap.
Anyway, the more I play GEO, the more I find the target limitation of debuff GEO spells annoying.
Since they mentioned something similar on OF, I really hope they're gonna do somethin about it sooner or later.

They'll probably never change it because when you're a baby GEO with only indi-poison, you'd suddenly start eating it from any mob that would walk near you.
Of course you could just not use any indi-enfeebles until you get your first buff... But... Skill.
So a minor annoyance for us endgame GEOs is a literal life saver for the newbies.

I don't get what you're saying. The debuff geo spells activate only if you enter into a target's enmity list. If you don't you can walk around it freely without any fear of your geo debuff affecting it.

I'm not getting your point :x

I'm fairly certain he was talking about the inability to cast debuff luopans on players. Which really is annoying. It's not as if who you cast it on has much to do with what gets debuffed by it. Case in point, entrusted indi debuffs. Cast on player, debuffs mobs around player.

I really don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to cast debuff luopan on players. It'd still only debuff mobs.

I was toying with Idris and Bolster and was just messing around mind ya. But is this really right?

Geo-Fend: Defense +
733 > 1419 (bolster+dunn)
733 > 1720 (bolster + idris)

Geo-Fury: Attack +
768> 1431 (geo-fury+blaze+idris)
768> 1540 (geo-fury+blaze+ecliptic)
768> 1655 (geo-fury+ bolster)

should mention baseline attack is a little low due to being 15 levels below club cap :D.

Anybody mind exlaining again to me the situation with Dunna + Idris?
I seem to believe that at start Malithar believed that they didn't stack, whereas it turned out that things were a bit different... but how different exactely?

With the exception of the skill, I thought they still didn't stack.

This.

Testing with Idris + Nepote bell(+5 Geomancy) and Idris+Matre bell(no stats) yield exactly the same results.

People just use Dunna post Idris cause it's still the best bell, skill/pet DT wise.

If you got the idea that things were different from me in the GS help thread, that was just me being a moron with a misspelled midcast set after changing around some rules.

If you wanna pull any knowledge from that escapade of dumb, Idris with no bell is nearly the identical potency of Dunna without Idris with most of the % potency buffs.

I seemed to remember that the official reply Malithar got on OF was showing something slightly different than "they do not stack", but maybe I'm wrong... I can't find that post anymore, nor Malithar's conclusion after sharing it.

It was the localization rep doing Geo's a solid and looking into the issue. They were under the impression that they would stack, but once they talked to the devs, it was said to be working as intended and the highest Geomancy+ takes effect.

Here's the thread.