Don't Feed The Homeless

I just imagine Flavin says "how tiresome..." after or before everything he says, ala Shikamaru. It seems to fit relatively well.

People hate and fear what they don't understand. I'm heavy on the libertarian side, and I'm a huge advocate of personal responsibility, but even I know some people are in over their heads, and have no chance without help. Upon the same token however, there are those who cannot be helped if they don't first pull themselves out of the deep and dark place; a place that does have a point of no return. Add mental illness and an already-uphill battle becomes a near 90-degree incline.

I was addicted to crystal meth for several years. I had nearly overdosed twice. It's not that you don't want help it's that sometimes the withdrawl is too strong to kick the habit. People don't know what withdrawl is like till you feel it physically/mentally. I developed drug induced psychosis when I quit cold turkey.

I swear I thought I was Jean Grey hearing people's voices. Oh yes and then the paranoia that I was being followed.

So no never think anyone loves that drug life. You love it at first, then the drug takes over. You need to do more and more to keep that high. Each time the withdrawl/down gets worse.

It takes a miracle literally to help someone out of a serious addiction.

Edit: Recreational and homeless drug addictions are very different. While the outcomes might be similar what initially triggers them is different.

I just went from being slightly annoyed with your replies to understanding and suddenly liking you lol.

I 100% agree with your view above.

Unfortunately they aren't baseless in entirety though. I don't feel like digging up the billions of statistics that tell you about drug use.

People have already formed their opinions and no amount of any forum discussion will ever change that. Some people may even try to argue that it's all their fault and that they ARE all druggies.

I personally disagree with that too. Like i said before. Walk a mile in someones shoes first.

It really was bro, I remember taking him to the hospital one day because someone had kicked the ***out of him. He had gone off on a bender that afternoon but before he did he tried to call me and make more sensible plans. I was outside washing my car and away from my cell when he made the last call. If I had been able to answer his first call nearly 2 hours earlier I probably would have been able to intervene, but I didn't hear the phone. I picked him up and had to help him into the car/hospital an sit with him while he came down and waited to be seen. Undoubtedly in more and more pain as his high wore off, he became just a bigger and bigger mess. Totally selfish, frighteningly destructive, and managing to drown himself in no more than a puddle of helplessness.

He could have been so much more, everyone tried to show him the way out of it, but in the end he was just too comfortable with his life to leave it. I really wish I had been able to come to that conclusion sooner, getting there was pretty painful.

Comfortable is probably a poor choice of words, Nausi. I find people tend to project their own worldview onto others that are afflicted, and it's not an analogous fit. Dopamine resistance, withdrawals, the constant state of inebriation are all perception shattering things, things that twist and contort what life is to people. They change how the mind works in debilitating ways. It's hard to fathom your faculties failing you. Drug-induced schizophrenia is a real thing.

You can only meet a person half way. And really it can only be half way if you care enough about the person to sacrifice and do your part. Nobody including myself would go half way or out on a limb for a stranger.

It's up to the individual to cross the half way mark and do what it takes to clean up and become stable. It's a terrible situation that I'm not even going to pretend like I know what it's like.

I'm not saying that some of em aren't druggies or alcoholics or that there might not be some that would rob you if given the opportunity... I'm not even saying that there aren't some that don't want help or are beyond it... What I'm touching more on is that not all are like that and this almost unatural fear is ridiculous...

People are people... in all their ***and glory... but it seems like sometimes think of the homeless as a little less than human and that kinda bothers me...

I've never had a violent encounter with a homeless person. I've walked down North ave. (Atlanta), after midnight, alone, (after a shift) heading towards Georgia Tech and never had a violent encounter (sometimes annoying but not violent or near violence) with a homeless person. Now asshat males (not homeless) who think it's funny and/or a turn on to grab their ***, ask me to have their baby, make numerous other sexual remarks, or try and grab my ***...I've had plenty of that.

As to LA they wouldn't be the first city to do institute this kind of policy. Orlando in the mid 90's had a homeless food program at Lake Eola every Sunday that was closed down and then a similar policy (no food given in public areas) put into place. Disney and other tourist companies didn't like the "look" it presented to tourists. Not that Disney/Universal/Sea World/etc are actually located in downtown Orlando but they still felt it reflected badly on them.

There is also the problem with cities "getting rid" of the homeless by buying them one-way bus tickets out of town. This has also been happening for awhile. Daytona (again mid 90's can't recall the year) did this and, I think, Hawaii is going to do the same thing, except airfare not bus tickets.

I really think people need to at least try some volunteer work at a shelter before a) stating that there is unlimited resources available and b) stating that the majority/all homeless are violent. I've seen more bar fights occur between "up-standing" citizens than I've seen or read about (newspapers) between homeless and non-homeless people. Statistically speaking that is also true over variety of towns/countries.

I want that on a t-shirt!

Hawaii is doing that already... they have an annual fund set up with $100,000 solely for that purpose... and you saw what their representative was doing there recently with that sledge...

He was homeless, he would fall off the wagon, loose everything (become homeless), ask for help, rebuild his life for a few months, get bored and repeat the cycle (for 25 goddamn years, I was 6 when he started). We met all his "friends", they all shared the same kind of lifestyle, they all rotated in and out of the same "charitable" programs. Some of them were ***, and some of them were sad decent people.

I really get that you "care" so much Flavin, but some people just don't give a ***. Weather they realize it or not, their own decision to engage in their self destructive behavior prevents them from being helped.

They don't want help. They are beyond it. At some point you gotta step back, say, "live and let live", and let them go.

That's unfortunately as they say, the two sides of the same coin.

How is all this solving anything?

There are shelters out there (yes Flavin, I have volunteered at one just recently in fact) that are available to those who need it, but there are a lot of people out there that would scream bloody murder if you try to help them, or scream bloody murder just because.

What I'm saying is, we have the tools and means to help them, why are they not being used? Is it our fault for not making said tools available to them, or not giving them the information to take it? Is it their fault for not accepting the tools, or for not seeking said help? Is it the government or charity's fault for not properly running the shelters or misappropriating resources for helping?

I personally think it is everyone's fault. Ours for not having enough shelters or programs in place, theirs for not attempting to better themselves, either by pure pride or mental condition, and the government/charity for not going out and seeking them (some charities do, but many don't due to safety reasons, so we would have to rely on the government to place them in said programs).

LA is not doing anything productive or helpful at all. All they are doing is hiding the true problem.

If it's from an actual life experience, it is hardly baseless. It probably holds a lot more weight than reading other peoples interpretation of other peoples studies.

I get the withdrawal part of it, but withdrawal isn't everything. It is surmountable, it does pass. Addicts do not get to still blame the drugs months after they've stopped taking them. That's horseshit. No one else can dismantle an obsession with drugs but the one with the obsession. No one chooses to go back to the obsession but them.

It has nothing to do with me caring... My aunt is in a similar situation and I have very little sympathy for her... she was once very successful too.. making six figures owned her own home outright but she suffered from severe depression and met her "boyfriend" which spent all her money and helped her find her addiction... he's pretty worthless himself... Like your family mine has done much to attempt to help her and are pretty much at the stage of well you have a place with us if you ever need one but we refuse to help support your addiction... its been over a year now since we've heard from her... breaks my moms heart and I curse the *** for it whenever it crosses my mind...

My issue has more to do with the blanket assumption that homeless people are to be feared anymore than some other person and that they are put in this box as people that can't be helped... none of them... some can some can't... and yes some don't want to... but just like everyone else they are all similar in some ways and so very different in others... the message... they are people just like you and me...

We're trying to screw something in with a hammer King. Yes, it can work if you get it at the right angle with the back-end, but it's not very effective, and won't have the best results.

Anecdotal experience is anecdotal Schmule. Best to be taken as is, a single event.

and my experience differs from yours... mine is also on a daily basis with a multitude of different people... Which one of our experiences holds more weight?

Point being you're taking what seems to be a single event and using it to blanket a large group of people...

So what is a series of anecdotal experiences then?

You are doing the exact same thing.

YEAHH! Someone enters the discussion with a funny picture!!

That's it for me folks.

A series of anecdotal experiences is still anecdotal experience. It gives you/whoever a story to tell but shouldn't be relied on to make decisions.

Just that. A series of single events. Those events may characterize a demographic in a certain locale, or influence a worldview, but unless you are experiencing these things on a day-to-day basis, chances are that your experiences are too finite to extrapolate across a spectrum.

No one thinks there aren't some homeless people out there that are there through no fault of their own, I'm sure there are a few, but the vast majority of them are there by choice. They are there because they've chosen to be.

Their choices make them different than you or me.

How so? I've admitted that some of them fall into the groups that you and others have described... the only people I'm calling out are the ones specifically coming out and spreading this nonsense as fact... In case I'm missing something... which is possible... how am I doing the same thing?

/sigh

You've blanket classified them as all noble individuals being worthy of your help and compassion.