Shut 'em Down!

I believe that it is supposed to be 71,830,000,000,000. You don't add 12 zeros to the number, you add twelve numbers passed the decimal point (meaning that there has to be 12 numbers, and whatever is beyond the 2 or 3 known numbers are zeros instead, as placeholders).

So, 83,592,000,000,000 > 71,830,000,000,000.

btw: what that study showed was 83,592 billion dollars, which is 83.592 trillion dollars.

Yes. Which is why it is NOT a stretch to question Nausi on calling obamacare a "handout."

Nausi wrong? Next we'll arrive at the revelation that water is wet.

the one with all the holes drilled into it?

/hides old fashioned hand drill behind back

no! that's my boat!

I thought your boat was the one with the 200 ton lead ball attached to the bottom of it...which I don't know how that ball got there in the first place

>.>

<.<

Wrong boat man! /slinks away

Damn, you mean to tell me I did all of that heavy liftin...I mean, I found that boat and warned you for nothing?

/unties the ball and puts it underneath the boat with holes in the bottom.

My stars! Would you look at that! He knows how to yuck it up a little!

84 trillion is more than 72 trillion.

Everyone on this thread is A-ok with that double standard. So ok in fact they'll pretend it doesn't exist.

MATHS!!!!

Nausi, please see the first post of this page.

I know, right?

You are right.

Sorry, in Denmark decimal points are used as commas (very annoying and this is an excellent example as to why) and I seemed to have confused and used both systems in my head.

E.g. Simple price
US system: $1,000.00
Danish and others system: $1.000,00

you'll feel better after you sing this song for about four hours...

No problem, I figured as much.

Why punish him like that?

Heck, I wouldn't even submit Obama to that type of torture.

well, if it was a distraction, I say it worked because I can't even remember what the numbers were supposed to represent. much less whose side of what argument they supported... but my finely crafted retort is.

What is the penalty in 2016, 600? 600 is astronomical, try the 20+ grand some people pay a year to cover families? Quit your freaking bitching.

It's a handout because the imaginary person who goes bankrupt because they don't have insurance will no longer exist. If you get sick, go to the exchange and get insurance, Obama will probably give you some money to buy some. Companies can no longer turn you away, and they can no longer charge you more than anyone else because of that illness. That added risk is paid for by me and other like me.

If you aren't like me and refuse to participate monetarily in a system you'll forever have full access to when you need it, you'll be penalized 600 dollars in 2016. Meanwhile the people who actually pay out the money to create that system (me) will pay exorbitant premiums just you you can have that entitlement. By the way if you're dumb enough to not get insurance after you get sick, rack up millions of dollars in heal care costs, die and stiff the hospital for that treatment, the rest of us will pay for that too through our premiums.

The full access even when you're already sick is a handout! The subsidy is a handout!

But you could do that before obamacare...

That's true, I was just pointing out that was also a kind of handout.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

/wheezing

Well, before Obamacare, you couldn't get insurance from pre-existing conditions, so, it really isn't much change to what Nausi is saying except that insurance companies HAVE to insure you, regardless.

Opponents of Obamacare:

What is the solution? We've heard all the unspeakable evils and how premiums will skyrocket, children will die in the street, rivers will run red with blood, the free market will become a Obama's market where he puts us all into FEMA camps and has us read copies of The Audacity of Hope under pain of torture. I got it, Obamacare is horrible and you don't like it.

What's the alternative? Single-payer? ***, that must be literally Hitler compared to Obamacare. Doing nothing? Vouchers? Faith-based initiatives? Deal with it?

"Of course, I want people to have health care, I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

Always good to see/hear a good smug liberal swallow a healthy dose of reality.

The "system" fundamentally hasn't changed, nor will it ever change.
The people that pay for health insurance pay for the people that don't.

Whether it's in higher taxes or higher interest payments it doesn't really matter.

The beauty of Obamacare is that it doesn't actually do anything. Except make people think something is being done about a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place.

I need to preface this with, forgive me I haven't backread yet and the weather change is wreaking havoc on my allergies right now so I don't have the patience to sift through, but how have some of you not come to the conclusion that you're already giving people a "handout" every time you go in for anything from routine check-up to another procedure?

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated, but we're already paying for the uninsured. We're paying for everyone who defaults on their medical bills. We're paying for the prenatal care of goofball teens who couldn't get their hands on or opted out of using contraception. There is a massive discrepancy between the actual cost of whatever procedure may be needed and the mark up that you pay for others that automatically occurs in your billing.

EDIT: NVM. I guess we're touching on this now.

Well, now we are double paying for it all.

One for higher healthcare costs, the other for higher insurance premiums.

Well...the actual issue ACA is supposed to take care of it make healthcare affordable. Which it doesn't even touch. That is the main issue at hand that people are forgetting.

Yeah, so to sum up the last twenty pages in a nutshell... Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr

LOL no, that's just the name of the bill. It's actually just shifting the channel that some of the money comes into it (healthcare) from.

Heathcare costs, like everything else, will logically always rise. You can't legislate your way into "making something more affordable" it's a farce.

You're still footing the bill smelly, get back to work!

Deregulate! Get the government out of the healthcare business. Part of the reason its so expensive is because for many states, every healthcare plan must cover x-y-z. Some people (mostly the youth) are only looking for minimal coverage, they should have options for that, but they cant because state laws often don't permit such plans. Older people who require far more coverage, SHOULD PAY FOR IT, if they want it. They generally have more money than us young people anyways. I'm sick of subsidizing some a-hole's diabetes meds because "comfort foods" is a coping mechanism for him/her instead of exercise. The fact that I pay 10000 a year or whatever it is for my physical and 4 PT sessions when he pays 11000 a year for 12-20 dr and specialist visits is bullsh!t.

There will always be class inequality in the world. Some people will always have more than others, inclusive of health care. Deal with it.

In this whole exercise with the ACA, did anyone ever cost out a national "personal disaster" insurance plan? You know one that would cover everyone in the event of a personal catastrophe (car accident, gunshot etc). That type of insurance might be a little more reasonable as a government gimmie. No subsidies, everyone gets it and thus adds onto that with whatever level of care they desire and can pay for.

As a libertarian I of course prefer anarchy and people dying in the street, but if there is a solution I had to compromise on, it might have some resemblance to that. Otherwise free up the markets, there is no better way to solve a problem than with everyone looking out for themselves instead of paying the government to do it for them.