Shut 'em Down!

The stocks have certainly suffered over the last 2 days because of defaulting fears, which is probably why Boehner came out and conceded it wasn't going to happen because of his House, however seeing is believing when it comes to Boehner at this point. The stocks might stabilize but I doubt they rebound tomorrow.

Yes, well the stock market is the least of the problems. The US dollar is the reserve currency for the world. It has decreased in value against the euro and yen the last few days.

The currency value directly affects import/export prices, which affects consumers purchasing power on everyday goods.

That's not even getting into more complex financial issues.

This talk about defaulting is so very, very stupid.

Edit: In case I made this unclear. There are always fluctuations in currency values (the fx markets are open 24/7 and they are volatile) However, defaulting will have dramatic consequences that is rather difficult for businesses to hedge against, which creates price fluctuations for consumers.

wait... since when did we start caring about the stock market and global currency values? capitalists are bad I thought... money is evil... those godawful rich 1% elitists trying to make everyone else poor. we're supposed to care about them now?

meanwhile....
I wonder if the medical company that made his mask had to pay the new tax...

It should be noted that there are a lot of private investors that play foreign currency the way others play stocks. These kind of predictable fluctuations would actually benefit some people.

all those pesos I smuggled home might finally be worth something!

When there is volatility in a market someone will always make money. By luck or design.

But my point was that currency dramatic fluctuations (and not so dramatic depending on how much money is involved) directly affects what people can purchase. Same with commodity markets, which can be a bit more difficult to hedge due to futures contracts.

If there was a default (what economists are now calling a "technical default") it has wide range ramifications and it is absolutely insane to even be contemplated.

but I have had my eye on this island in greece for a long time now....

/goes back to plotting the world's downfall so he can score some cheap real estate

/waits for nsa shock troops to kick down mosin's door to seize his illegal peso stash

/waits longer

/gives up waiting

oh yeah the shutdown....

I have no problem with capitalism. I have a problem with unfetterd/no regulations/manipulating the market capitalism.

I like the markets and making money (in games and real life).

I pity you and your lack of perspective. In the long run none of you are probably as liberal as you think you are. Maybe you're just too young, naive, or arrogant to understand, but government rarely helps anyone. It's full of individuals who only seek power for themselves, therefore it should be as weak as possible, only stewarding things the country cannot do for itself. You don't provide facts, you provide interpretations of events which you hide behind to subdue some aspect of "cognitive dissonance".

I'll point out several examples of this hypocrasy and insanity.

Republicans have offered at least 4 CRs with varying degrees of hindrance of Obamacare. None of which are acceptable to democrats. Obama has said himself he "will not negotiate" but liberals such as yourself sit back and say 'well the republicans aren't willing to compromise'. Republicans offered one of a 1 year delay of the individual mandate and exchanges (which clearly aren't ready) and even offered a package inclusive of everything but the special subsidy congress gave itself and it's staffers to insulate themselves from the hardships the rest of the public would be subject to when their employers stopped providing healthcare. That wasn't good enough, but it doesn't matter. In your head Obama is uber alles, and republicans are bad so you quietly dismiss the facts.

Liberals have stated Obamacare "is the law of the land", so was slavery, prohibition, DOMA, and racial segregation. Polls consistently show the public doesn't like the law always by a clear majority/plurality and in some cases over 60%. Obama has crafted over 2000 exemptions for corporations and individuals and unilaterally delayed the employer mandate into law. The current status is hardly an accurate representation of what was sold us 3 years ago. A well known power of congress is the power to withhold finding (power of the purse) but YOU claim congress has no claim to it, "negotiations are over". I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you were silent when the president announced he just wasn't gonna do his job and deport DREAMERS or enforce DOMA (law of the land) either right? You're far more partisan than you claim I am.

Obama is also making this shutdown as painful as possible, he owns all the methods of the executive branch. If there are armed rangers standing guard at an open air national monument that doesn't normally have any guards, its because he's purposely keeping people out. If no-one "stands guard" at a open area monument when it's open, how can there be funding available to guard it when it's closed. I betcha you didn't know that monuments can be used for 1st amendment protests during this shutdown but not for anything else either. So lets keep the protesters in but keep out and harass the WWII vets.

You refuse to acknowledge any of the political gains or politics here Why, because you're nothing but an arrogant, partisan liberal.

I agree, the keyword was "predictable". Volatility is dangerous, fluctuation is normal. But when the prices can change dramatically and be predicted the way this situation was, it's a little unique in the context of normal market fluctuations.

Could you post these polls you and others keep quoting?

You really should do some research on how the current CR and budget proposals differ from their original proposals on both sides. The Democrats have done nothing but compromise on everything besides ACA.

They even went down an additional 70 Billion below their initial offering AFTER the shutdown.

ACA is the only thing they won't negotiate on and it's not something to negotiate as part of a CR. They've also said that they're willing to negotiate any portion of ACA AFTER the government is open and the debt ceiling is dealt with.

That's an example of adults prioritizing what needs to be done now, and what can be done later. ACA shouldn't have ever been on the table in a CR.

You call him naive, but you don't grasp simple concepts like "doma is unconstitutional". You still don't understand the discretionary powers afforded to the executive, which is ironic, because they're outlined on the last page of this post and addressed directly to you.

why not?

How the fx markets will react to a default is not predictable. It could be so far below anyones expectations that the markets are closed briefly, which could just add to the panic or not, it could cause a flash crash. There are many, many possibilities. No one knows because it has never happened before. Businesses have started hedging and that is good.

Even if businesses hedge correctly, losing dollar value will still decrease people's purchasing power. Because your money is worth less than it was.

This also affects the import/export ratio, the gdp, etc.

Banks have also started stocking atm's with 30% more cash in case people panic and start a run (which happened in 2011). Banks have increased the cash on hand, as well. All of this takes it out of investments (e.g. Funds available for loans).

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

Sorry, makes me think of a firefly quote (not a pole, but still).

Jayne: You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here.

Or it could be a boomstick.

Nausi still thinks Dems are killing cancer babies and crippling WWII vets... any propoganda they can come up with to try and shift public opinion...

Well why aren't we funding those kids with cancer?

Because there isn't an equivalent on the other side, unless you expect the Republicans to negotiate Oil subsidies or Pharma. You can't negotiate if you don't have anything to give up. That's not a negotiation, it's ransom.


Default is a different story altogether. I'm talking about the shutdown. Anyone could have predicted the dollar would reduce in value with the government closed, employment data being witheld, etc. Granted, any wealth that could be made during this time would quickly evaporate with a default. But there are plenty of people who stand to make a lot of money knowing exactly how far they're willing to push this issue in congress.

Actually, we are. The shutdown only keeps them from admitting new patients who aren't high risk into programs that are still running. Those programs are run by grants, the money is already in the bank and the kids are being treated exactly the same.

Nice try Mrs. Lovejoy.

Yeah, I'm not talking about the shutdown.

why aren't we admitting new patients then?

Again... I will tell you one more time so listen closely lol... The funding is already in place... everyone who has been receiving care will continue to receive care... they are not getting shut down... Kids that are critical will also be inducted into the program and receive care... The only ones being affected are new applicants that aren't in serious condition as they will most likely be turned away... In an interview with someone who worked at the program he explained all this and even went on to say that if this only goes on for a week or two no one would really even be effected... They're not letting anybody die... they're not letting anyone that is already getting treatment go without... no one is going to be harmed by this... They even went as far to say that even if this went on for months it would be nowhere near as damaging as sequestration...

Are you just one of those people that you accuse others of being? Listening to your favorite news program and whatever they tell you without ever questioning it? Excited by any little tid bit that seems to throw the ball in your court?

What i find hilarious, is that a law with a 41% approval rating based on a moniker, has a nearly 90% approval rating when they poll the aspects of the act and never mention the name...

I don't think even the Tea Party are crazy enough to actually go forward with a default. At least I hope they aren't.

Technically we are, actually. Just not low-risk. And it's because the government is shut down. You're not as clever as you are smug and ignorant.

News stories led the other day with '200 kids turned away from cancer treatment due to shutdown'. Here's one such article.

"But the rules of the shutdown mean that the Clinical Center 'would not be accepting new patients or initiating new clinical protocols during a hiatus,' the memo said."

The article isn't bogus. Why are new kids being turned away?

Right but the house offered a separate funding resolution that would fund the program right? It wasn't passed in the senate right? So the senate (democrats) halted their funding right?

Are you being purposefully obtuse or what? There is no reason to pass piecemeal funding for a department that is the least affected simply to waste time and try to bolster public support for their obstruction.

You sound line Sean Hannity, stuck on your talking points. Do you think if you put your fingers in your ears and yell loud enough that it changes the nature of reality?

Those 200 kids would probably have been turned away regardless of funding.