Power Rangers: A Guide To Pewing

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Power Rangers: A Guide to Pewing
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-12-09 07:40:47
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Cerberus.Maeldiar said: »
Burmte gloves is an amazing accuracy piece, with dex augment it's like 42 accuracy. Dex is nice on it anyways for those dex weapon skills like cdc
Didn't know Ranger could use CDC.
 Cerberus.Anjisnu
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By Cerberus.Anjisnu 2014-12-09 07:42:51
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Dense much?
 
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By 2014-12-17 10:31:45
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By fractalvoid 2014-12-17 10:38:38
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I use Arcadian Jerkin +1 in preshot now. Caban offers nothing useful anymore. I've been debating about the head slot, but still use Sylvan for now.
 
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By 2014-12-17 10:45:25
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By fractalvoid 2014-12-17 11:10:19
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I'd probably just use Arcadian body/feet and ponente if you wanted to add more rapid shot. Also I might be tripping but I think Caban is only +5snapshot so I didn't feel too bad putting it on moogle
 Quetzalcoatl.Valli
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By Quetzalcoatl.Valli 2014-12-17 11:22:19
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Is it possible, with gearswap, to precast twice?

Like, start the shot in rapid, immediately swap to snap, then immediately change to midshot.

The general consensus was that snap > rapid if you can't do that.
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By fractalvoid 2014-12-17 11:29:26
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Maybe with flurry2/courser's roll it's worth stacking all the rapidshot but otherwise I feel more comfortable with the static delay that snapshot provides.
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By Carbuncle.Yellowman 2014-12-17 11:32:33
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fractalvoid said: »
I use Arcadian Jerkin +1 in preshot now. Caban offers nothing useful anymore. I've been debating about the head slot, but still use Sylvan for now.

So there's no need for Sylvan Caban then? And do Arcadian Jerkin +1 has Snapshot stats that are Hidden or something?
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By Sylph.Padisharcreel 2014-12-17 11:48:47
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Arcadian doesn't have snapshot. He's saying he prefers the rapid +12 from arcadian over the 5% snapshot from sylvan (It's 10% snapshot). I personally prefer sylvan for precast in most situations, and only use arcadian in preshot when overkill is on.
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By fractalvoid 2014-12-17 11:56:46
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Right forgot +5 = 10%. I was trippin
 
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By 2014-12-17 13:12:26
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 Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
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By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2014-12-17 13:21:15
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Verda said: »
My instinct is that at a certain level of rapid shot, it will surpass snapshot so I'll try to figure out that magical number.

Just reading on bgwiki and doing basic maths:
21 snapshot = 42% delay reduction with no base job attribute and + 10% max with merits.
32 rapid shot = 32% better proc chance with 30% base proc chance from job attribute + 5% more max with merits average delay is assumed to be 65% based on bg wiki.

that means snapshot is 52% delay reduction and consistent.
Rapid shot is a 67% chance to have an average 65% reduced delay = .67 * .65 = average reduced delay of 43.55%, meaning on average your dps with Snapshot is still greater. Additionally I'm not sure that if rapid shot goes off snapshot still applies or not and that could make things really complicated requiring graphing things.

As it stands with these calculations and the info I have at least, which could be wrong, you'd need an effective rapid shot proc rate of 80% (or rapid shot + 50) to tie with snapshot 52% or 21 snapshot + merits. That's assuming they don't work together additively or even interact at all.

Multiplicative returns are very small, for instance on 100 delay 65% reduction = 35 and an additional 50% off that would be 17.5 meaning the effective delay was 82.5% not 115% :P

If they do interact with each other multiplicatively then you'd have to graph a ton of values plugged in for each of them to really visualize and discern the point of optimum snapshot + rapid shot and see if that's doable by gear. Hmm. Before i put that much time in I'd want to see if anyone knows if they do even interact with each other.

edit: further velocity shot gives 5 snapshot so further complicates if they act together as you have a base for snapshot outside of merits.

According to Mote's analysis of Byrth's testing, he concluded the following:

Quote:
So, new hypothesis:

1) Nominal delay in seconds = delay / 120

2) Effective delay is nominal delay plus the effects of Snapshot (so 10% Snapshot would give an effective delay of 90% of nominal delay)

3) Rapid Shot generates a delay between 50% and 100% of the effective delay

4) Base proc rate on Rapid Shot is 35%

Quetzalcoatl.Valli said: »
Is it possible, with gearswap, to precast twice?

Like, start the shot in rapid, immediately swap to snap, then immediately change to midshot.

The general consensus was that snap > rapid if you can't do that.
You could, but it wouldn't work. Both snapshot and rapidshot are only factored when you hit /ra. In other words, what you're wearing before you shoot. They aren't considered during aim down sights time like STP, Racc/Ratk are.
 
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By 2014-12-17 13:28:39
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 Bismarck.Inference
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By Bismarck.Inference 2014-12-17 14:14:41
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Verda said: »
The double shot is prob gonna do more for you than you think, the rapid shot is probably going to perform not as well as snapshot but I'll get some math together this weekend when I have time.

I could have sworn I got into a discussion with someone and it showed the double shot requirement was midcast only and not precast(so you can't go Arcadian>Kyujutsugi and still get a non-JA double shot), but I can't seem to find it...but I'm almost certain it registers the double shot during midcast phase, if that's what you're referring to anyways.

Edit: here we are - http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/38352/power-rangers-a-guide-to-pewing/41#2591144
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-12-17 14:17:36
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Ok. Let this be restated for the 100th time. SE has systematically botched the snapshot values, both seen and unseen.

The idea that Snapshot +1 originates from out first source of Snapshot, our merits. 1 snapshot merit = 2% delay reduction. After that, any testing on gear with "Enhance Snapshot Effect" was treated the same. If it showed a 10% delay reduction, then the community as a whole stated the gear had Snapshot +5. This was able to continue until SoA was released.

Once Seekers came out, we started getting more and more snapshot gear, and augments. This gear started to not match the old mold of 1 snapshot = 2% reduction. Stuff like the delve bee legs being tested at delay-9% can't really be given a snapshot +4.5.

That said, overall, it is better in the long run to stack Snapshot, since it not only gives a static reduction, but also makes the amount of delay reduction that Rapid Shot gives decrease.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Orestes
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By Quetzalcoatl.Orestes 2014-12-17 16:24:52
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Verda said: »
Quetzalcoatl.Orestes said: »
Quote:
So, new hypothesis:

1) Nominal delay in seconds = delay / 120

2) Effective delay is nominal delay plus the effects of Snapshot (so 10% Snapshot would give an effective delay of 90% of nominal delay)

3) Rapid Shot generates a delay between 50% and 100% of the effective delay

4) Base proc rate on Rapid Shot is 35%

That would indicate a multiplicative relationship on delay reduction. Also some of my math was already wrong above, final delay is calc'd delay * (1 - reduce%) not delay * (reduce%) meaning 100 with 75% reduced delay is 25 not 75.
In any case I'll do the graphs this weekend and try to figure out at least an optimal way to make them work together. Due to diminishing returns on each other because they are multiplicative, having a lot of one would probably be better than mix matching after you start getting above a certain percent at least (instinct says 50%).

eslim said: »
think i'm just gonna close my eyes and hope rapid shot does it's thing lol..
The double shot is prob gonna do more for you than you think, the rapid shot is probably going to perform not as well as snapshot but I'll get some math together this weekend when I have time. Though a quick calc, the snapshot was 52% delay overall and you have 35% base rapidshot at 75% reduced delay =

100 * (1 - .62) * (1 - (.35 * .75) =
100 * .38 * .7375 = 28.025 = 71.975% total reduction

And Rapid Shot:

100 * (1 - .1 [from velocity shot]) * (1 - .72 (with merits) * .75) =
100 * .9 * .46 = 41.4 = 58.6% total reduction

So you will attack with 13.375% less aimed delay on the snapshot setup. For the double attack it's an instant shot right? That is harder to calc because it probably removes all the static times before/after. With that in mind it'd be kind of close. But as just an aimed delay modifier you would consider it .05 * 1 on average delay reduction or 5% delay reduction on average over a large sample size making snapshot still better by 8.375% but if it takes out those static delay pieces then it's more difficult to calc. Consensus on limited info: snapshot setup is about 5-8% better for the purpose of delay reduction. You might take into account things like accuracy, ranged attack and attributes on the base items tho to decide if it's worth it for you.

Byrth's tests suggested 35% Rapid Shot contributed to 10% overall delay reduction. This wasn't absolutely conclusive, but it's still the most thorough tests anyone has done.

It's very difficult to test since Rapid Shot does not reduce your delay by the same amount every time it procs.

Mote said:
A Rapid Shot proc creates a roughly equal distribution at 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, and rarely 40% of the original delay. The highest percentage cannot be higher than what's allowed by Snapshot.

In short, I don't bother with it. Now that we have access to Flurry / Flurry II, it's possible to shoot extremely fast, if not @ capped delay. In this scenario Rapid Shot would do absolutely nothing.
 
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By 2014-12-17 16:44:33
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-12-17 17:13:47
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Quote:
Would be interested to know at one point you are capped and can replace snapshot/rapid shot with damage gear or -enmity.

At all times. As states quote often, Rapid Shot and Snapshot gear are in your preshot setup. You remove them use Store TP, R. Acc, R. Atk, STR and enmity gear in your Midcast. Replacing Rapid Shot or Snapshot in your Preshot build will serve no functional purpose
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-12-17 17:31:57
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Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
Quote:
Would be interested to know at one point you are capped and can replace snapshot/rapid shot with damage gear or -enmity.

At all times. As states quote often, Rapid Shot and Snapshot gear are in your preshot setup. You remove them use Store TP, R. Acc, R. Atk, STR and enmity gear in your Midcast. Replacing Rapid Shot or Snapshot in your Preshot build will serve no functional purpose

Let me clarify, since there are a lot of people new to Ranger and may not know the functionality of Snapshot and Ranged Attacks.

Ranged Attacks function more like a spell being casted, than a physical melee hit. Melee hits are automatic, and in order to maintain a lower Attack delay, you must wear haste gear (or dual wield when applicable). Ranged Attacks obviously are not automatic, and need to be triggered via the /RA command, similar to spells needing to be casted. Snapshot acts more like Fast Cast gear, in that it it reduces your Aiming delay (the time from when you hit your macro, until you actually fire), similar to how fast cast reduces the actual casting time of spells. The difference between the two is Fast Cast also can be stacked with Haste gear to ruduce the delay between recasting the same spell. There is currently no known way to reduce the static delay between from the time you actually shoot, until you can shoot again.



On a side note, as I typed this out, I am actually wondering if Snapshot gear actually reduces that static time between shots, since it's function is so similar to Fast Cast.
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 Bismarck.Snprphnx
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By Bismarck.Snprphnx 2014-12-17 20:44:30
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Verda said: »
Bismarck.Snprphnx said: »
Quote:
Would be interested to know at one point you are capped and can replace snapshot/rapid shot with damage gear or -enmity.

At all times. As states quote often, Rapid Shot and Snapshot gear are in your preshot setup. You remove them use Store TP, R. Acc, R. Atk, STR and enmity gear in your Midcast. Replacing Rapid Shot or Snapshot in your Preshot build will serve no functional purpose

Ah thanks, I read that and knew that, but I derped and forgot D:

Additional question do mages have precast gear for haste etc then swap out during animation to +mattack or something?

Yes. Fast Cast gear reduces both casting time, and recast time. The recast time stacks with any reduction gained from haste/marches. Mages precast in Fast Cast or spell specific casting time reduction gear, then switch over to MAB, Magic Acc, INT, Cure Potency gear, etc or haste gear during midcast.
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By 2014-12-17 21:37:23
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 Cerberus.Maeldiar
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By Cerberus.Maeldiar 2014-12-18 13:09:02
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eslim said: »
oh ya??

would be nice if we had a value to compare that to with the sylvan head, never could find a snapshot stat on it.
 
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By 2014-12-18 13:16:01
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