PLD Vs NIN...Who Is The Best Tank?

IMO neither one of them is better than the other. Each of them have their own good traits, each of them have flaws. But, if i had to answer what i like to play best its pld

NIN/DRK will generate more hate over time if Atonement is not a factor, it is true. If you suffer a hate reset or something though, Paladin is the faster choice for reaching a good level of hate again, via cure cheats etc as you mention.

Sentinel is an incredibly useful tool for spiking hate too.

Damn your cure cheats!!! Though they are kinda mp wasteful compared to /drk moves.

Either way if the mob can be blink tanked completely or mostly a nin will take less dmg. If shadows go down fast often a nin will often faceplant while a pld will survive.

Also nin takes alot more attention to keep hate and survive but pld kinda sucks at getting hate if they can't melee

You're stupid, stop talking. If you're blink tanking, PLD is better. If you're not blinking, PLD is still better. If you're relying on Atonement for hate, you utterly and completely fail at PLD and should quit the job. It was still the best tank before Atonements release, Atonement simply allows you to deal consistent damage on top of tanking.

This

pld has like only cures and flash for CE. Hell really pld gets no other hate spells worth even thinking of using lol.

/drk gets tons and tons of hate spells.

Anyone who thinks a pld/nin can keep utsesmi up better than a nin is insane.

Shield master > Nin since 05 :(

Mid 06. And on those non blocks that pld will be interrupted pretty much 100% of the time while a nin geared for -spell intterupt/skill can and will get thru though really can probably evade/parry if geared too.

And if your relying on shield mastery to cast utsusmi that implies blink is down when your casting... which doesn't meet the "if you can keep shadows up criteria." Most HNMs/NMs can be slowed/elegied even if it takes alot of skill/macc/ES. A nin/drk should pretty much always be geared and in a pt setup to be at max or damn close near max -recast.

If a mob can take off 7 shadows on 22 sec while slowed and/or elegied sure thing pld shield mastery and generally ability to survive will win. But seeing as mobs without increased attack speed attack once every 4 sec probably not gunna happen.

However there isn't alot of mobs that do that ( or ones that just can't be slowed/elegied). And nins A- parry/evasion especailly when geared for it can be evade/parry alot on some of several of those faster mobs. And that's when you get 2 nin/drks which really there should be a slot open in the pt since sides AOEs only shouldn't get which means just need brd and rdm for support maybe a sch or a whm or another rdm or brd for fun.
Or if you can't get a pld and take it slower since a pld will never get hate as fast as a nin/drk

lets all take advice on tanking from Dasva, a guy who has leveled neither PLD or NIN to 75.

Yeah I'm either just the guy keeping said pld or nin alive or the guy who dies if they can't keep up with my hate. I can tell you which one is easier to do for certain and which one keeps hate off my *** better in most situations.

Because double attacks don't wipe shadows every so often? Even if you time your shadows perfectly so they're always up, you'll eventually be shadowless, hence shield mastery.

And /WAR isn't useless, but more an offensive sub than a defensive one.

Is this ***really going on still?

Dasva I dont mean to sound elitist but by your titles "HNM" to you is Simurg/Roc and Limbus bosses which I could see your argument for NIN/DEK being more plausible, but for larger HNMs PLD being able to cure themselves, thus not being as mage reliant makes them far superior. Also imo giving PLD the "Aegis" set the main tank in stone. Being able to hit the hate cap isnt as impressive as being able to cure BLMs, and yourself while blink tanking. PLD also gets the option of upgrading "Excalibur" which makes it the most dominant DD on Khim, Cerb and other drawn out melee able HNMs. The DPS on that sword is just insane while you are doing your "tnking job". Nin cant tnk Ixion well either >.> It can be done, just isnt as pretty :p

Lol simurgh Roc limbus bosses!?! With exception of Ultima/Omega wouldn't bring either pld or nin to "tank" for them. If for no other reason than it's wasting a slot to have a real tank when 1 isn't needed

Sure Pld relic>>>>> anything a nin can think of wearing. Why is curing blms more impressive than being capped on hate? I get extremely annoyed when I keep losing my latent to damn plds!

And yes mobs that go thru utsusmi/AOE it off all the time nin is less than pointless. Hell sam is probably a better tank than nin in those cases lol.

Generally though when I fight strong things we have rdms and brds to debuff it and keep the tanks at max -recast while refreshing and have all the dmg be either ws or T4+ nukes severely limiting most HNMs AOE moves while using stun on the AOE spells. But yes nin is squishier physically if you catch them with shadows down and it takes alot more skill/attention to stay alive and keep hate then pld. Maybe I've just known much better nins than plds that could actually keep shadows up or am too spoiled with being able to buff the tank and debuff the mobs... and am too used to low man situations

The recast on Cure 4 is like 4 seconds, same with Cure 3. Why do you need any other hate spells? Your argument is completely invalidated by the fact that with an unlimited MP pool you could cast hate spells nonstop.

Unlimited mp pool where? Both those cost alot more than the /drks hate spells take longer to cast too lol. And aren't better hate in all aspects and cure IVis alot of hp to be cheat curing which will cost you emnity gear if nothing else

Chivalry, BRD, RDM, Auto-Refresh, Ares Body, Parade Gorget, Ethereal Earring hi. You can also curecheat in a lot of Enmity and HP gear, Cure IV caps. Use Aegishjalmir for HP up (even if you have BMask) for HP+25 Enmity+7. Ritter Gorget HP+25 Enmity+3. Nuevo Coselete HP+20 Enmity +5. Trance Belt HP+14? Enmity+4. Homam Hands HP+26? Enmity+3.

Cure Cheating doesn't cost you Enmity, and PLDs MP pool is about 5 times that of a NIN/DRKs. You shouldn't be running out of MP with support. However you also shouldn't have hate problems regardless.

Why am I arguing with someone who has no tank job leveled and subs DNC on BLM.

Cure 3 spams are more efficient on an mp>enmty ratio than other spells. Using sentinel then cure3 cheats will cap your CE very quickly.

for 95% of stuff
NIN/DRK handsdown

You're a goddamn moron and need to shut the *** up before I punch you through my *** monitor. Do you *** understand how PLD cure cheat gear works? Or do I really need to show you my *** spellcast and explain the god damn job to you? (inb4 wuts spellcast)

I really hope this is just some troll.

In any case, you lose no enmity when you cure cheat that you didn't have on prior to starting the cast because if you're idling in enmity you're *** wrong.

What Tant said is 100% right.

Oh, this is also the clown who said pld relic > everything. You're still a moron, Aegis is trash and a waste of currency. hi2u 500k is coral +1 gear. Get the *** out with this Aegis is the end all be all.

Jesus this is probably why I've never *** looked at these forums let alone posted on them, BG doesn't have anywhere near this many idiots.

Oh and this idiot above me who thinks NIN/DRK is always better than PLD, you need to get out too. There is no NM in this game except something that NEEDS to be evasion tanked that a PLD can't tank just as well if not better than a NIN. Considering I doubt you've ever seen an HNM outside of Nyzul Isle unless you have a RDM and a BRD in your tank party a NIN/DRK is useless. Their MP will never fill up fast enough to keep up with a PLD.

Thank you again for your enlightning info Boggs, and I do appreciate your skeptisim. Also your positive attitude.

Now you know why I don't wish to continue with this subject, because its like trying to talk to a brick wall.

Even PLD tanks try to be NINs in endgame. It doesn't make them better if they're just copying the concept.

It purely depends on, as many people have stated, set up, target etc. I don't have nin but I will conceed, against things like Ouryu Cometh, nin/drk is much better. Other times PLD is better.
Yes, PLD can't keep shadows up as well as NIN can, of course not, but IF a PLD/NIN does lose shadows, its DEF & DEF abilities will ensure they shouldn't get torn into itty~bitty~pieces within a few seconds. A well timed shield bash will usually result in sufficient time to recast shadows.

Both have their strong points & weak points. Personally, I will always prefer PLD, but I'm not about to turn around and say "My PLD will always be a much better tank than NIN against any mob". Its just not true and anyone who claims that is just lying to themselves.

I'm skeptic? About what? Unlike you I have both of the jobs in question leveled and I tank HNMs every day. I'm pretty sure I know more about the subject than you do.

Talking to a brick wall is a comment I should be making considering several people have given you completely valid reasons as to why you're wrong and you continue to comeback with an argument that in simple words is "nou".

You don't wish to continue discussing this because you can't provide a valid reason to keep arguing with me and the six other people who have told you, you're an idiot.

I've never met a pld that could get hate faster and keep it better than a nin/drk it's just not in the numbers. And I still lol at infinite mp pool.

Might as well ignore everything that guy says, Das. He seems to think this is World of Warcraft.

I'm not a tank.

Nor do I wish to be.

All my statements (as stated) were based on observations.

PLDs will tank better than NINs, hands down.

But, every single one of your posts, every single one of them, have been negative towards the person(s) you have responded to, offering very few facts on your oberservations, and still don't respond to the real need of a tank, which is to keep hate situated away from everyone else.

Since you have both of the "tank" jobs leveled, I'm sure you would understand why I say that a NIN just can't hold hate against a good BLM, and against a great BLM, it doesn't even stand a chance, even if we give you all the time in the world to build hate.