The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos |
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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Do you have a link for that spreadsheet by any chance?
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Should always assume fighter's over chaos. Chaos for a war is wrong 90% of the time, and when it mathematically should be correct to use chaos, it's still wrong just use fighter's adjust buffs somewhere else.
Serjero said: » Chaos for a war is wrong 90% of the time Suspect. Offline
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Yeah in the age of PDL I don't think that's a valid belief anymore and even if it is for WAR its likely not for the other DD's meaning chaos is far more likely in actual game play. The additional damage for your COR's and BRD's and whoever else is in the party, Savage blade DRG maybe, from chaos roll will be more than enough to justify it for the party. Have a fighters roll up set just in case, but plan on getting chaos 90% of the time.
You can also thank the ever increasing number of geo debuf nerfs for this. As again while you could construct a party around this with adequate defense down (DNC, BST, etc,), its also just as likely you don't have it covered and are left with just a dia 2, light shot, and break ws. Offline
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Devaraja said: » Do you have a link for that spreadsheet by any chance? https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Igroub9bytSSOQv5tOoCyu18IW_PK1I/view?usp=sharing Just keep in mind this is my private copy, so name of some items might not be user friendly and there might be some half manual, half automated mechanics, that I dont remember now. I wanted to clean it for public, but Im way too busy in RL. Offline
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The only jobs that really need chaos still in this day and age w/ Geomancy being nerfed to the ground is like SAM and COR (maybe RNG but that's still more to the benefit of the COR for shooting, especially w/ Hover Shot now). For the other heavy DDs out there they also really don't need it as they have their own innate attack boosts and traits to help maximize damage in a similar fashion to Berserk. Bolster Fury and SV songs go a very long ways along with Dia II, LS, and def down WSs. Does it floor enemy defense to where you don't even need more than HM and Minuet to cap attack (if even that)? No, do you compensate by adding more attack buffs (like the 2nd maybe 3rd Minuet if possible)? Yes.
I just really don't see what content people are doing where A) Geomancy is super nerfed and B) Isn't alliance content and C) Isn't using the hell out of 2hrs and D) using multiple heavy DDs and the COR and BRD DPS are absolutely paramount to success compared to saving a few seconds. In something like that yeah you'd most likely need Chaos to cap attack to utilize Sakpata PDL. WAR has been PDL starved for ages, one of the reasons it was kind of a lackluster job outside of MS Warcry zerg windows before. Now it can actually take advantage of the monster boost that is Berserk (also made Conqueror feel like less of a waste of an investment because that 8.5% attack might actually do something now). Maybe certain ambuscades where people don't have MMM to reset 2hrs and or just want to go the fast. Now if we had more definitive data on mob defense and more concrete knowledge on when attack is and is not capped outside of eyeballing and in game parses, I'd be way more inclined to believe Chaos is correct to use along with when and where it will actually matter. But unless somebody has a link to all of that or properly incorporates it into the spreadsheet. It's hard to believe. More than happy to be proven wrong with accurate data. But how much Defense do these V15 Gaol NMs really have? WoC is assumed 1950, are we at the point where they are exceeding 3k? Are we needing 6.3K + attack to cap pDif with 2 pieces of Sakpata on upheaval w/ Armor Break, Dia II, and Light Shot? Is a single Chaos Roll even gonna be enough to bump attack up to 7.5k+ to use the full set. Offline
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I mean apex bat have almost 1500 defense. Is it so hard to believe these new things have More than WOC, an NM that came out what 5 years ago? I can tell when i'm attack capped by the damage I put out as im sure any DD after awhile can. And again, you are defaulting to WAR and sakpata, while thf and dnc and drg and so on are likely using more than 2 pieces of gleti/whatever, and war should be using more than 2 pieces of sakpata by the way, so yeah give them chaos.
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SimonSes said: » Devaraja said: » Do you have a link for that spreadsheet by any chance? https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Igroub9bytSSOQv5tOoCyu18IW_PK1I/view?usp=sharing Just keep in mind this is my private copy, so name of some items might not be user friendly and there might be some half manual, half automated mechanics, that I dont remember now. I wanted to clean it for public, but Im way too busy in RL. Thanks man, I appreciate it! Offline
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Malaketth said: » Yeah in the age of PDL I don't think that's a valid belief anymore and even if it is for WAR its likely not for the other DD's meaning chaos is far more likely in actual game play Malaketth said: » so yeah give them chaos. Edit*** I change my mind. I don't think you are correct at all. At least not for the reasons you posted. The higher defense of new content isn't really the issue, it is the resists and oddball builds you have to go with. Serjero said: » WoC is assumed 1950, are we at the point where they are exceeding 3k? Full debuffs with lightshot in a normal party is 85% defense down. even at 3k the mob would only have 450 defense. If you add eclytptic/blaze then yeah, there is no reason not to use sam/fighter on any job. Even without them you most likely won't need chaos. But if it resists them, then chaos is likely the way to go. A lot of the time you can skip fury as well if you are using blaze/bolster/ecliptic. People greatly over compensate on attack. So the need for chaos really just depends on target and party composition. Offline
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We are assuming nerfed geomancy (Gaol mostly). But yeah, if geomancy isn't nerfed chaos roll is useless.
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Serjero said: » We are assuming nerfed geomancy (Gaol mostly). But yeah, if geomancy isn't nerfed chaos roll is useless. What would be really useful if someone posted the builds and how much attack they had with exactly how much each hit was dealing. With that information we could figure out how much defense each mob has and then determine if we actually need chaos or not. Without that information people are mostly just going off of feelings. The T3 NMs have about 2000 defense at V15.
Devaraja said: » SimonSes said: » Devaraja said: » Do you have a link for that spreadsheet by any chance? https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Igroub9bytSSOQv5tOoCyu18IW_PK1I/view?usp=sharing Just keep in mind this is my private copy, so name of some items might not be user friendly and there might be some half manual, half automated mechanics, that I dont remember now. I wanted to clean it for public, but Im way too busy in RL. Thanks man, I appreciate it! Can someone with excel, Change the Weapon to Chango 119 (No Aug) and Utu Grip, and re-share it for me? GoogleDocs will let me change everything except the weapons for some reason. Thank you. Asura.Geriond said: » The T3 NMs have about 2000 defense at V15. If you lose Box Step, that jumps up to 5337. Offline
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Asura.Cambion said: » Devaraja said: » SimonSes said: » Devaraja said: » Do you have a link for that spreadsheet by any chance? https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Igroub9bytSSOQv5tOoCyu18IW_PK1I/view?usp=sharing Just keep in mind this is my private copy, so name of some items might not be user friendly and there might be some half manual, half automated mechanics, that I dont remember now. I wanted to clean it for public, but Im way too busy in RL. Thanks man, I appreciate it! Can someone with excel, Change the Weapon to Chango 119 (No Aug) and Utu Grip, and re-share it for me? GoogleDocs will let me change everything except the weapons for some reason. Thank you. Make a Copy and you will be able to edit everything. SimonSes said: » Make a Copy and you will be able to edit everything. I did. As stated, Google Docs has an issue parsing the weapon options for some reason. When you click the drop down, it will say 'Loading' and forever remain loading. The same applies to Weapon, Sub, and the Weaponskill choice(Setup). I can change the weapon type, I've edited everything else on teh sheet, added the new food, Non Aug'd versions of Sekpata, etc etc. But I can't change the weapons. I made a copy as xls, made a copy as google sheets, both have the same exact issue. I did some googling and it seems to be a common issue with googledocs trying to pull with the indirect function, but... it was a bit over my head. I'll try my work computer which has excel and see if I can do it and re-share back to google. Offline
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Asura.Veikur said: » Asura.Geriond said: » The T3 NMs have about 2000 defense at V15. If you lose Box Step, that jumps up to 5337. My WAR sits at 7996 w/ SV HM, Minx2, Berserk, and Bolster Geo Fury, in the Sakpata TP set that Spaitin posted when Sakpata came out. When Bolster wears BoG + EA is 7537 attack. Between RDs and WC, should be realistic to keep attack in the 7k+ range which should still be good enough for Dia II, Light Shot, and Armor Break. Which needs like what ~6.2k attack to cap PDL in 5/5 Sakpata? My napkin math might be off if someone wants to correct that. Gonna need to mess around with gear cause it definitely looks like you can 5/5 Sakpata on Upheaval in Gaol with just BRD and GEO buffs. Granted, Atk. Down aura is bad news bears but that's kind of already the case regardless, but just toggle back to none or less Sakpata in WS in that case. On Bumba ideally you're using a DNC for Naegling Fencer anyways, so Box Step and Naegling attack bonus on buff # should make capping attack trivial. Edit: FWIW non SV (marcato HM) non enhanced fury and Berserk is 4936, and SV but non enhanced fury is 6215, 6461 w/ Conqueror enhanced Berserk. Offline
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Asura.Cambion said: » SimonSes said: » Make a Copy and you will be able to edit everything. I did. As stated, Google Docs has an issue parsing the weapon options for some reason. When you click the drop down, it will say 'Loading' and forever remain loading. The same applies to Weapon, Sub, and the Weaponskill choice(Setup). I can change the weapon type, I've edited everything else on teh sheet, added the new food, Non Aug'd versions of Sekpata, etc etc. But I can't change the weapons. I made a copy as xls, made a copy as google sheets, both have the same exact issue. I did some googling and it seems to be a common issue with googledocs trying to pull with the indirect function, but... it was a bit over my head. I'll try my work computer which has excel and see if I can do it and re-share back to google. That's any issue with too many data. I need to cut 80% of equip there. You can still use it without problem tho. Just type the name of the weapon manually. If you won't make errors in name it will work. Offline
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Serjero said: » Asura.Veikur said: » Asura.Geriond said: » The T3 NMs have about 2000 defense at V15. If you lose Box Step, that jumps up to 5337. My WAR sits at 7996 w/ SV HM, Minx2, Berserk, and Bolster Geo Fury, in the Sakpata TP set that Spaitin posted when Sakpata came out. When Bolster wears BoG + EA is 7537 attack. Between RDs and WC, should be realistic to keep attack in the 7k+ range which should still be good enough for Dia II, Light Shot, and Armor Break. Which needs like what ~6.2k attack to cap PDL in 5/5 Sakpata? My napkin math might be off if someone wants to correct that. Gonna need to mess around with gear cause it definitely looks like you can 5/5 Sakpata on Upheaval in Gaol with just BRD and GEO buffs. Granted, Atk. Down aura is bad news bears but that's kind of already the case regardless, but just toggle back to none or less Sakpata in WS in that case. On Bumba ideally you're using a DNC for Naegling Fencer anyways, so Box Step and Naegling attack bonus on buff # should make capping attack trivial. You don't use Upheaval in Gaol period because you don't have sub job and without hasso it's far behind. In segments farming you most likely won't have dia, def down and even fury (best setup is brd Cor SCHorWHM, tank, 2xDD). Offline
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What 3-4 step SC are you doing w/ Sword on Mboze and Kalunga that won't just completely tank your damage.
Yes, I know you can use DRK or SAM or w/e in those fights. Have done WAR on them anyways and it's workable. Hell used WAR on Ngai w/ Club and it works. MS + Warcry is still busted. Chango is still excellent at multi-step even w/o Hasso. Neither of those fights would I want to use Naegling over Chango. So yes, you can use Upheaval and Chango in Gaol. WAR isn't limited to Bumba only. Edit: Also I guess I should specify I didn't mean just Upheaval for using more Sakpata I should have just said WS's across the board. Offline
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I would simply swap to Chango to make SC to take aura down and use Fencer for damage otherwise.
Edit: You can even start SC with Naegling. Savage, then spam Raging rush for 3 step or 4 step, add Upheaval for 5 step. Offline
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Looking for an updated WAR LUA -- can post publicly or PM -- thank you in advance
Also keep in mind that for the T3s, doing high skillchain damage when taking down aura can be bad since they absorb their own element at a greatly enhanced rate when they have aura up. I had a fight or two where I healed Kalunga 99999 a few times with fusion or light SCs before switching to fodder-tier WSs to remove it.
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Asura.Geriond said: » Also keep in mind that for the T3s, doing high skillchain damage when taking down aura can be bad since they absorb their own element at a greatly enhanced rate when they have aura up. I had a fight or two where I healed Kalunga 99999 a few times with fusion or light SCs before switching to fodder-tier WSs to remove it. Yep exactly why I suggested savage and raging rush spam (instead of savage>Upheaval>ukko for example). Savage and RR spam is scisson>reverberation>induration>fragmentation. Yzen said: » Looking for an updated WAR LUA -- can post publicly or PM -- thank you in advance After your Pld posts, I'm assuming you don't want my War Lua... Yzen said: » Looking for an updated WAR LUA -- can post publicly or PM -- thank you in advance Should be mostly up to date: https://pastebin.com/ahztGkt4 Offline
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@Cambion
#Public-Fan-Crush lol :P I would definitely welcome your LUA to help teach me [and whoever else delving into this game] how to further refine my own -- especially the gearsets -- My research also let me know that you put a lot of time and effort into helping out the community [ie: your gearswap guide with your DNC as an example] Nothing but gratitude! /bow Offline
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@ Atigeve - Many thanks! /bow
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@Atigeve - Can I remove the porter packer functionality from the gear swap and have it function properly? If yes -- which lines have to be removed?
Yzen said: » @Atigeve - Can I remove the porter packer functionality from the gear swap and have it function properly? If yes -- which lines have to be removed? That is just a reminder text line for me, you can just delete line 9 it does nothing except send a chat command. |
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