The New Embrava And PD
The New embrava and PD
The real answer is to bring 3 DDs and 3 buffers to NN. We were doing NN with 5 players and a leech very consistently. (3DD,2SCH,buyer) Change the "buyer" to a 3rd support job and you'll be fine.
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Fenrir.Curty said: »
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Jassik said: »
Brd in nyzul doesn't compare to sch. Songs take too long and too short duration. You will fail if you spend a min at the rune waiting for 4 songs. And before you mention job abilities, the recast makes them useless outside of one set of good songs then you're better off with sch for everything else that spot would cover.
If you couldn't hit 100 at least 1/4 with the good embrava, better start buying wins while its still possible.
If you couldn't hit 100 at least 1/4 with the good embrava, better start buying wins while its still possible.
Of course, if you bring a naked BRD with no fast cast gear, that'll impact your chances significantly.
In addition to these comments, out of interest my group tested brd instead of sch out a couple weeks back. If your group is decent, and you don't get completely icky floors, the brd can just do one song every floor up (while the SCH is ususally accessioning a buff anyhow) to keep 2-3 songs up consistently. It's obvious that embrava vs marches will hurt the speed of floors because of the regain, but the main thing I am not looking forward to (especially as someone who has solely gone kraken ranger) is the lack of regen. Your scholar needs to get much better and/or DDs need to be more self-sufficient after this update.
Just gonna highlight this bit because I just wanna say, not every SCH in nyzul is an abyssea burned mule. I can main heal no problem as well as cover buffs on DD`s, the loss of regen potency won't hurt a hell of a lot, the regain I see as being the major *** up in this update.
Cerberus.Taint said: »
The real answer is to bring 3 DDs and 3 buffers to NN. We were doing NN with 5 players and a leech very consistently. (3DD,2SCH,buyer) Change the "buyer" to a 3rd support job and you'll be fine.
The BEST answer is to get your wins before the update so that you don't even have to worry about this crap
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10-24-2012 01:18 PM
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| Hello! As this topic has generated quite a large amount of feedback already, we will be doing our best to collect it all and deliver it to the development team. A would like to, however, follow-up on a couple of things. First, there is a question about the cap on summoning skill being 600 being a mistake; however, this is the correct number. While it might not be currently possible to reach this number, the development team set the cap to 600, so consider that there may be room to increase this in the future. Next, keep in mind that these adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava were made with the idea that all special abilities’ cool down timers will be shortened. With that said, during this week’s Test Server update we are also planning on making adjustments so that the cool down timer on current and new special abilities will be halved. (We are also planning to make it possible to cut this time even further via equipment and merit points.) We understand that these adjustments will change the usage of these abilities and may cause inconvenience to some, and we apologize for this. We would like to proceed with these adjustments carefully, so we will be looking closely at the feedback we receive. Also, we realize that there are a good amount of people who oppose these changes, but we would appreciate it if you could post specific feedback about what would be the preferred method for going about these changes. | ||||
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
My alt doesn't have a 99 dardaubla but I do have a 90. With 3 songs, you can N/T songs very quickly and still have 3 full potency songs:
March1 with Gjallar
March2 with Gjallar
hymnus with Daurdabla
3rd song with Gjallar which overwrites the hymnus
Takes about 9-10 seconds due to cast delay.
Now... Even with a 99 Gjallar, you can't keep N/T'ed songs up forever and 4 songs can change the dynamic cause of the screwed up way songs are overwritten and I've not been able to do any testing with it so I can't say how it will change. Estimate a minimum of 2 more songs here if a variation of my old method still works but yes, if it doesn't putting up 4 full potency songs could take a long time but it also doesn't have to be that way right from the get go(can rebuff a song or two each floor in many cases). Some floors would benefit from mazurka greatly so that would mess with songs even more.
It's a fact that songs will be troublesome in nyzul, even with capped fastcast since not all floors can be done before a standard non-N/T song won't always last 2+ floors and you can't refresh all 4 songs each floor. Hell, even if you didn't need the brd to stay at the rune to go up, I'd imagine you'd have trouble keeping 4 full potency songs up on 2 separate groups that are split up most of the time, and you can even separate in to one person groups in many floors and layouts.
To be honest, I think you'd be best off just keeping up 3 songs using N/T for the initial buff while refreshing 1-2 songs each floor or as able and using a daurdabla'ed mazurka as the 4th song on any non or low combat floor to help speed things up since if you choose to use mazurka at all it'll totally screw up your 4 songs and it isn't worth waiting on. And god help you if you miss one of the dd's with one of your songs /rageflail. It's annoying enough when you're standing still and only have a 10' radius to work with.
TLDR: *** song mechanics in events like nyzul...
Cerberus.Taint said: »
The real answer is to bring 3 DDs and 3 buffers to NN. We were doing NN with 5 players and a leech very consistently. (3DD,2SCH,buyer) Change the "buyer" to a 3rd support job and you'll be fine.
Exactly, brd can't replace a sch in terms of buffs and utility in nyzul, but a brd or cor can make up the gap after an embrava nerf. With smart dd's you won't really notice the loss of dmg.
NNI seems kinda bad.
I mean... I don't mind certain jobs being optimal in certain content, but necessary jobs? That seems kinda... yeah.
Maybe it's well loved and I'm off the rails here, but I probably won't be super butthurt when the gear is obsoleted (I hope). I know that makes me sound super casual, but meh.
I mean... I don't mind certain jobs being optimal in certain content, but necessary jobs? That seems kinda... yeah.
Maybe it's well loved and I'm off the rails here, but I probably won't be super butthurt when the gear is obsoleted (I hope). I know that makes me sound super casual, but meh.
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The issue being if it were more friendly to jobs like thf and rng, it would be too easy for the optimal job setups. With it being mostly about strategy and communication, and optimal jobs being necessary, you are mostly fighting against luck. F100 gear is not supposed to be within reach of casual players.
Jassik said: »
The issue being if it were more friendly to jobs like thf and rng, it would be too easy for the optimal job setups. With it being mostly about strategy and communication, and optimal jobs being necessary, you are mostly fighting against luck. F100 gear is not supposed to be within reach of casual players.
That's my beef with this event, mainly.
Carbuncle.Veteran said: »
Jassik said: »
The issue being if it were more friendly to jobs like thf and rng, it would be too easy for the optimal job setups. With it being mostly about strategy and communication, and optimal jobs being necessary, you are mostly fighting against luck. F100 gear is not supposed to be within reach of casual players.
That's my beef with this event, mainly.
That's everyone's beef, lol
I dunno, I've seen a lot of defence in favour of it.
"About time we had some hardcore content" etc.
"About time we had some hardcore content" etc.
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NNI is stupidly easy i dont get why everyone doesnt have some of the gear yet. Obviously with this nerf its going to be loads harder to get to floor 100 should get spamming it now!
Im going to lol now at all the abyssea burned summoners with low smn skill.
Bwah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
I was main smn back at 75 cap sky, dyna, HNMs, einherjar and VNMs. Took forever spamming all that to cap smn skill then when level cap was being raised was like noooooooooooo. Having to cap again was a pain but im quite glad i kept myself capped up till 95 then got bored.
Im going to lol now at all the abyssea burned summoners with low smn skill.
Bwah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
I was main smn back at 75 cap sky, dyna, HNMs, einherjar and VNMs. Took forever spamming all that to cap smn skill then when level cap was being raised was like noooooooooooo. Having to cap again was a pain but im quite glad i kept myself capped up till 95 then got bored.
Odin.Creaucent said: »
NNI is stupidly easy i dont get why everyone doesnt have some of the gear yet. Obviously with this nerf its going to be loads harder to get to floor 100 should get spamming it now!.
Stupidly easy? I think you're exaggerating a bit. Sure, it isn't as bad as it use to be once solid methods were designed but luck is still the primary factor in winning and losing. Even with a very good group who have done it several times who are haxing it up and are communicating via skype or TS can still fail to the R.N.G. and you can only go down hill from optimal. It took me a good while to get my sets of nyzul gear.
Theres something hard about killing mobs quick and communicating with other people?
Sounds like someone never experienced 10 2-floor jumps in their 15 wins. :x
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Carbuncle.Veteran said: »
I dunno, I've seen a lot of defence in favour of it.
"About time we had some hardcore content" etc.
"About time we had some hardcore content" etc.
It isn't really "hardcore" content.
A buncha gimps could do it with the right setup (at least when we had lamp .dats) as long as they weren't *** and had a slight bit of luck.
"Hardcore" players should probably already be done with NNI gear... it's been whatever amount of months now, so making it that much harder for the people who couldn't get it in the first place is really *** stupid.
I mean, I guess I don't care since I've been done since a few weeks after they added the stopper... but still :/ new people/returning people are basically ***.
well as i'm just now seeing all this for the first time, been offline dealing with family crisis. personally the PD thing been way over due. and as i have been a smn for close to 7 years now and have done my best with keeping my skills up,(not capped but they are getting close) i think its a welcome change and good fix. so what about the duration loss. like with most vet players we can adapt and overcome and go with the swing of things.
The Enbrava nerf. personally i saw this coming but not this this much of an extreme. oh well adapt and go on with it. only thing you will be able to do. maybe it will give those of us that dont have the job leveled(like myself) a chance to do NNI with something else. maybe even find a differant way to make it work. sorry i'm just a believer in allot of old school ways of thinking. work on ways to make it work for you and what your current setup is and go on with life. pure and simple.
and for those that abby burned their jobs up with little to no skill. better get cracking and actually get it up and learn the job, smn is more than just a PD ***,,,,
Thank you and we now return you to your regularly schedualed griping session already in progress
The Enbrava nerf. personally i saw this coming but not this this much of an extreme. oh well adapt and go on with it. only thing you will be able to do. maybe it will give those of us that dont have the job leveled(like myself) a chance to do NNI with something else. maybe even find a differant way to make it work. sorry i'm just a believer in allot of old school ways of thinking. work on ways to make it work for you and what your current setup is and go on with life. pure and simple.
and for those that abby burned their jobs up with little to no skill. better get cracking and actually get it up and learn the job, smn is more than just a PD ***,,,,
Thank you and we now return you to your regularly schedualed griping session already in progress
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Odin.Creaucent said: »
NNI is stupidly easy i dont get why everyone doesnt have some of the gear yet. Obviously with this nerf its going to be loads harder to get to floor 100 should get spamming it now!.
Stupidly easy? I think you're exaggerating a bit. Sure, it isn't as bad as it use to be once solid methods were designed but luck is still the primary factor in winning and losing. Even with a very good group who have done it several times who are haxing it up and are communicating via skype or TS can still fail to the R.N.G. and you can only go down hill from optimal. It took me a good while to get my sets of nyzul gear.
He's right, it is stupidly easy to clear 17 floors. If your group cant do that, you suck.
The problem is when SE decides to throw this at you:
Floor 1: order (3)
Floor 5: all
Floor 7: order (4)
Floor 10: spec family (4 flayers)
Floor 14: code
Floor 17: spec family (2 flans)
Floor 21: order (5) (embrava wore before we finished)
Floor 23: all
Floor 30: order (4)
(FOUR order floors in 9 jumps FYI)
Floor 32: spec en (right at entrance)
Floor 35: Spec (2 poroggo)
38: Leader (HM Chariot)
44: code (at entrance)
46: spec en
54: spec en (2 chariots)
That has nothing to do with talent, skill, communication, gear, or anyting. Thats just http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3x4Rm5f71s and theres nothing you can do about it except lube up.
And these "oh man BLU's are gonna go buckwild with the embrava change!": its a 3 1/2 minute buff of 5mp/tick refresh, barring external means of prolinging it. SE took a huge dump all over Embrava with their planned "adjustment"
Talent, skill ect, improves your chances by increasing your average floors cleared which increases your chances of winning against the RNG. Please don't take what I say out of context, I'm not claiming that it's really hard or anything, I just think that its deceptive to call NNI "stupidly easy" since it's easily one of the more stringent events and you can't just toss the average player in and have them succeed with no problem like many other events which I personally would define as "Stupidly easy".
I realize this is semantics of the definition of what is easy but there's a difference in calling getting a relic or a mythic "hard" when it just takes time and calling an event that requires optimization and specialization and many talents learned in the game to beat the clock and the RNG.
I realize this is semantics of the definition of what is easy but there's a difference in calling getting a relic or a mythic "hard" when it just takes time and calling an event that requires optimization and specialization and many talents learned in the game to beat the clock and the RNG.
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Sounds like someone never experienced 10 2-floor jumps in their 15 wins. :x
Last night we had average jumps, but one run we had 9 lamp floors, three were order and 4 were same time. Only one order was 4 lamps, the rest were all 5, lol. And we've gone 91, 93, 95, 97, 99 more than a few times.
That said, its the most fun i've had since the VW cities at 90 cap without temps and 3 atma. That was hard, nyzul is about communication and focus more than difficulty.
Bismarck.Llewelyn said: »
Sounds like someone never experienced 10 2-floor jumps in their 15 wins. :x
Loads even got a few 1 floor jumps but that doesnt make NNI hard or difficult and im 9/15 for probably 20+ runs. Like i said its not hard or difficult it requires no proper thought or strat other than.get embrava kill stuff and dont die and do it as quickly as you can. Maybe if it was PW or AV at 75 then it would be difficult.
Edit: forgot about our one run that we cleared nearly 30 floors and still didnt win.
The process of climbing the floors is easy, yes. Getting to floor 100 every time is not. That's all I'm saying.
The group I ran with had average DDs and had a 90% win rate. I then went to help others with above-average gear and ended up with about a 60% win rate. Both were very intelligent people. It's all luck, as I'm sure you've heard 9000 times over.
The group I ran with had average DDs and had a 90% win rate. I then went to help others with above-average gear and ended up with about a 60% win rate. Both were very intelligent people. It's all luck, as I'm sure you've heard 9000 times over.
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Can you even have a 1 floor jump short of picking the wrong option?
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Can you even have a 1 floor jump short of picking the wrong option?
Carbuncle.Veteran said: »
I dunno, I've seen a lot of defence in favour of it. "About time we had some hardcore content" etc.
I'd rather my gear come from some luck based content where skill/coordination/gear do have an impact on your odds of winning, as opposed to doing the same kill mindlessly over and over again so you can roll a dice with odds that are severely stacked against you.
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
Can you even have a 1 floor jump short of picking the wrong option?
I had a 1 > 2 floor once when it first came out and i know i selected the random option. The others were in another group the guy that was at rune was adamant they pressed random option we didnt think anything of it really.
Considering you're the only one to report a 1 floor jump in the many months Nyzul has been out, I think you were imagining things.
Or doesn't want to admit he screwed up.
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If your rune sch manages to hit the wrong option, they cost you as much as 8 floors. Nyzul can be a bit buggy at times, but a 1 floor jump is almost certainly a player mistake. Que the youhadonejob.jpg
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