The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Also, double post to add a question of my own as I started poking around in my ninjutsu sets...

Was Kishar Ring ever tested to establish whether the "Enfeebling Magic effect duration +10%" applies to ninjutsu enfeebles?

Were Hattori Tekko +1 tested to be 14% for real? When is the 14% damage calculated in the formula?
I seem to recall someone claiming it was granting a static value and not % based.
I currently use Hattori myself but that's because I'm cheap, lazy and lack better options.

If it really is a static value there are better options. (outside of Futae, at least)



Relic+3 feet might become really nice, at least for non magic-burst nukes, depending on which aug we'll get come July 09 patch.

What's a decent nuke dmg and a decent Mb dmg?
Say go reisenjima entrance and just 1 cast, what should someone be expecting.
Got 4.8k from a ni and I don't have a exceptional set. (cue Django Leonardo skull speech)
What is decent number?
Thx

Yeah, you know what I just tested Hattori against perfect Leyline (MAB+30) and Leyline won. So nvm, I was also using Hattori more out of laziness. Hattori for Futae though, and I didn't bother making separate Futae/non-Futae sets.


Just a solo cast in good nuke gear, no buffs?

Something like maxing out at 6-7k on an unresisted San (1/5) free nuke. You really won't run into many "serious" situations where your free nukes are of much consequence though. It's more a nice thing to be able to tack on to the end of a SC with a good MB.

I guess I nuke sometimes in Dynamis on statues that have been pulled? Futae+San takes a good chunk off.

I'm using Hattori+1 (despite having perf Leyline) for the same reason.
I'm terribly lazy and couldn't be bothered to make an automatic or manual toggle to use Hattori during Futae but Leyline outside of it lol, I'm such a bad NIN, am I not lol?

Regardless, I'm really torn on the Hattori+1 hands.
I can think of four possible things

1) Error in the english translation, it's not 14% but something else (can someone cross-check a JP wiki?)
2) It's actually 14% but it's calculated early in the formula (before Mab?) so it doesn't give a boost as big as one may think
3) You require a lot more mab in the other slots to make that 14% damage perform better than the mab you get from other options (say: Perf Leyline Gloves), pretty similar situation to the Pet: Mab vs Blood Pact Damage for SMN.
4) It's a bug, it's not working as intended but nobody reported it and/or SE never noticed it or bothered to fix it


Might be worth to discuss this in THIS thread. Bahadir conducted a lot of very in-depth and useful researches about NIN nuking.


Also while we speculate further in NIN average damage etc, keep in mind all our numbers are likely gonna change a lot from next patch, where we'll likely get all 6 San nuking spells as "scrolls" and 6 different Group2 merit categories, likely boosting MB, MBB, Macc, Recast and stuff like that, similarly to what happened to BLM with the June 09 patch.

ninjutsu+ stuff was tested to just be straight mab+ so hands are +14 mab, relic head was... 21? Mab, whether or not its an error on SEs part idk but yeah the gloves are pretty lackluster outside of futae

For the Hatsuburi I was more prominent to believe "Ninjutsu Damage +21" is the Ninjutsu equivalent of "Magic Damage" for Elemental Magic.
That is a small amount of damage added to the base damage, which doesn't benefit from further calculations in the formula (unlike Mab).

The english description on the Hattori Tekko though specifically talk about a PERCENTAGE bonus.
It's not Ninjutsu Damage +14, it's +14%.
So either there's an error in the english translation, or it's one of the other scenarios I talked about in my previous post.
Can't think of anything else.

Supposing it's not just a typo, it could get "fixed" with the NIN patch come july, or in the future come the +2 and +3 versions of Hattori Tekko.

Pretty certain its just a tl error,
https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Ninjutsu#Equipment_Bonuses

Was where i found the mab stuff

Finally got a windy clear

R15 Kikoku yesterday, now trying to betsu my metsu...

Offhand kanaria - 4dmg 4dex 20acc 15att 3wsd

Outside of lugrax2
Ear1-ishavara ear2-mache+1?
Ear1or2- brutal?

Belt- fotia, grunfeld rope, chiners+1?

Rest of the gear dont need adjustments

I've always used hattori hands in nuke set and have found them to be the superior option when free nuking.

I dont use nin much but have to go with capu as i used some mab+24 herc gloves that i got higher nukes with when i was soloing apex/omen, was when i 1st started questioning its +% as dmg wasnt matching up

Doh...I guess I left out the important detail of futae. you normally wouldn't free nuke on ninja without it, and you get the hands bonus. I think I just went with the lazy approach and always use those hands since I didn't want to make 4 macros for futae up/down ice/thunder free nuke set.

Ah then yeah, no question when futaes up

Ears: Mache+1 x2 is almost always the best non-Lugra set for Metsu. Ishvara and Brutal are extremely close to each other as the next choices down. OP set just has this one wrong, with Brutal/Ish listed as alternatives to Lugra/+1.

Waist: Grunfeld or Windbuffet+1, winner depends on buffs. When they're close (i.e., most scenarios), it comes down to whether you prefer Windbuffet +1 higher damage spikes and potentially better performance over time, or Grunfeld's more consistent performance.


Hey guys, so since the above discussion a couple pages back, I've been messing around with Tauret a bit more... and now that I've put more time into analyzing it, I am getting Tauret winning as best offhand in the vast majority of buff/target scenarios, regardless of mainhand (Kikoku, Heishi, Kannagi).

Notably:
- Kanaria basically NEVER beats Tauret. If you have low acc requirements, the delay on Tauret is more valuable and the lower dagger skill/acc doesn't come into play. If you do need accuracy, Kanaria falls off anyway (and slots in behind all of Tauret, Fudo, Gokotai).

- I rarely get Tauret losing to Gokotai. Only time Gokotai wins that battle is when you're seriously struggling with accuracy (underbuffed) on difficult targets, and in those cases, it's almost always Fudo (able to take advantage of all of its benefits of Acc/Racc/Atk) > Gokotai (acc/racc) > Tauret.

If anyone else has contrary findings, I'd love to see more discussion. Otherwise... it looks like TAURET is usually going to be our best DPS offhand.

If delay is what's making it win, use a taka

That's what boosted kannagi DPS so much running numbers like 50 pages back

Already tried that, and Taka loses to Tauret too.

For anything but Kannagi mainhand, Taka suffers way too much since the AGI does very little for anything but Blade: Hi (and non-Kannagi weapons are gonna perform better with other WS). Tauret gets DEX that helps Metsu, Ten, Shun...

Even for Kannagi mainhand where Taka does its best (and you're right that it holds up as a good option paired with a Kannagi), I get it losing to Tauret - but it's closer than it is on other mainhands. Probably due to a combination of slightly lower delay, and pumping up mainhand Acc a bit more for higher AM3 mainhand white damage. I was a little surprised to see that the loss in Racc from giving up Taka's AGI/Racc didn't make more of a difference for Daken purposes, but that's what the math seems to indicate.

The other thing I want to play around with that needs more time is Naegeling. Seems like a Naegeling/TP Bonus katana Savage Blade setup would be pretty effective - despite how icky it feels to me to play that way.

Hello guys, could you please link me a good NIN lua? Thx in advance. ^^

Thanks for the input.

What's your TP gearset when using the tauret. I've built one for my dnc and its crazy paired with the aeonic.

Nothing too unusual for a typical high end TP set. I default to the following (assuming capped haste):
ItemSet 361681

I'll sometimes swap out Adhemar +1 head/hands in favor of Kendatsuba +1 for an accuracy/Meva boost, though I tend to pretty much keep Ken+1 legs/feet over Samnuha Tights and Herculean Boots.

Will also change this set to include the new Gere Ring from Odin once I get my hands on one.

Taurut is the best non tp bonus offhand in the game period

Better comparable is when I pointed out ternion beating taka


Taurut is much better than ternion

Makes sense, you dont notice any drop in TP having a lower delay offhand? Assuming increase in attack rounds make up for it.
I'm using gere/eponas, love the ring... I have hetairoi ring aswell but I cant see any difference between that or eponas with gere.

So are the 2 people that still play nin excited for the upcoming job changes?

Coming from someone that plays 1 job and ***relic dagger.

just wondering what the likely 2 wild card merit categories will be assuming it follows the blm lineup of magic burst, macc/matk, and probably resist down for 4 of the 6 slots

Nagi +blade:kamu adjustments please SE

Elemental ninjitsu being strong enough to nuke dyna statues without futae and geomancer shenanigans would be cool too.

(yes i still enjoy ninja and im hopeful for a decent update)
(im even making a kannagi for my 2nd ninja character right now)

Relic head and feet would need to get adjusted... +3 them while they are cheap now

Hopefully they give my gil back after r15 kikoku from scratch.

So, let's play the guessing game.
What do you think it's gonna happen to NIN in the next patch?


1) Spells become scrolls, merits become new categories affecting T3 Ninjutsu macc, mab, mdmg, mbb, recast, can't think of anything for 6th and last one
2) Minor adjustments to Yonin and Innin. Nothing big, nothing like the sorts of what we've been clamoring for (no more reduction over time, undispellable etc). Whatever we'll get, supposing we'll get something at all, I hope it won't be bad
3) New Shurikens added in game, still no ilevel stats
4) Minor adjustments to buff/debuff ninjutsu. Tier2 for those who only have Ichi? Slight power up to the Ichi version? I can see something of the sorts happening.
5) Adjustments to Relic Head and Relic Feet augment. Currently head boosts T3 nukes damage and Feet boosts T3 nukes casting time. Given the categories will change and T3 nukes won't be merits anymore, it's pretty clear they will have to boost 2 of the 6 new Group2 Categories. How did they handle that for BLM, out of curiosity? It's a very similar situation, bet they'll do the same.

I don't see them adjusting T1 merits, I could see something minor happening about Sange but then again, not sure about it.
Something about tools, in terms of QoL? But we already have universal tools (NIN main specific), doubt they'd go as far as removing all the basic tools and make so universal ones are the only ones. Would *** up too many things and they don't have time to deal with it, even though I reckon it would be a small QoL change but that in the end would make nothing towards the goal of making NIN more desirable or more fun to play, so they won't rightfully do anything about it.

NIN could use a Racc trait, or additional hidden racc bonus to Daken (it's ~100 atm iir), but again I don't see this happening at all, sadly.

BLM - AM merits increase MAB by +15 at 5/5 (presumably both AM and AM II). Relic head aug now increases MAB by +2 each merit level (total MAB+25 at 5/5). Expect something similarly underwhelming for ninjutsu