The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

They WS at max TP(1750+1000+250) so tp bonus on heishi is completely wasted anyways. Heishi is still a few D higher but if attack isn't capped then kikoku will probably have an advantage with attack boost and white DMG.

Basically WS at 1750+ TP = kikoku isn't necessary a bad choice. You aren't going to see several thousand increase in the test even if heishi is used.

I think the difference in stat mods reduces the effectiveness of the 15.5 fTP vs 13.75 fTP . Granted, it is easier to get Dex than it is to get Mnd but 50/50 vs 30/30... I have 345 str and 196 mnd in my Savage Blade set and 339 str and 266 dex in my Blade: Ten set. That's 270 WSC vs 181 WSC, a difference of almost 90.

Melee WS Base Damage = floor(( Weapon Base Damage + fSTR + WSC ) × fTP)

Let's assume fStr is capped, since it will give Ten the best chance. Also going to use 14.75 fTP for Savage Blade because of the extra hit. Ignoring 2nd hit of Savage Blade, even though it adds damage it makes math dependent on WSD in gear (edited).

Heishi Shorinken (R15): floor((166 + 18 + 181) * 15.5) = 5657
Naegling: floor((166 + 18 + 270) * 13.75 = 6242 * 1.15 = 7178

7178 / 5657 ~= 1.27 = Savage Blade does 27% more damage than Ten

That's all fine and dandy at 3000 effective TP, but that's not utilizing Aeonic at its best. If we WS at 1000 TP, that's 2250 for Savage and 2750 for Blade Ten.

Savage Blade fTP @ 2250: 11.12
Blade Ten fTP @ 2750: 14.5

Heishi Shorinken (R15): floor((166 + 18 + 181) * 14.5) = 5292
Naegling: floor((166 + 18 + 270) * 11.12 = 5048 * 1.15 = 5805

5805 / 5292 ~= 1.10 = Savage Blade does 10% more damage than Ten

Naegling wins in both scenarios.

All that being said, if there's something wrong in the way I interpreted a damage equation, let me know. I don't claim to be an expert on this but I also noticed an improvement in using Savage Blade over Blade: Ten.

(Post edited to adjust Savage Blade fTP values back to single hit. For reference though, 50% wsd in gear would change the percentages to 33% and 16% with the addition of the second hit, unaffected by WSD gear.)

SB all things. Buukki is just stubborn and refuse to join the SB meta. :P

I skipped that part about TP at max, my mistake. I don't really care which wins in a vacuum, I use all weapon combinations when it's needed. matters to me not in the end

I call you stubborn mostly because of your "gtfo" reaction when I mentioned it on page 144.

I get that it's hard to accept the idea of using a sword on a ninja though, so whatever. The entire reason why I mentioned it because I do think it makes nin less of a lolDD if low WS avg is their biggest weakness.

Also have to say naegling is much easier to obtain than r15 heishi. Basically any new or returning player can get into play nin and compete with minimal gears.

Tl;dr: info about the effectiveness of SB build needs to spread, it's good for entire NIN community, IMO.

Get out of here with your SB meme's. We all know that we live in a world where Metsu can't be topped!

Here's my difference in just 2 screenshots. I didn't screenshot my gear but like I said it's definitely skewed to favor Ten (DEX augs etc).

Ten
SB
The average was very consistent so this shows what I saw for the most part. Metsu was doing 25k-28k. Buffs where Rostam Chaos/SAM, HM/VM/x2Min, and Idris Fury/Frailty Entrust STR.


Edit: Also just realized that my Ten screenshot cut off my second Ten but the average was around 35k >.>;

You need to let that go for real. I forgot all about it but I probably said gtfoh because your Savage blade bias is in every thread.

Drg- HEY USE SAVAGE BLADE
RNG - HEY USE SAVAGE BLADE LOLOLOL

WE. GET. IT.

jokes aside, I wouldn't encourage a new ninja to gear for naegling Savage blade when gokutai is likely a better starter option that gives better stats out of the box. Apex is a non factor monster anyways. If you get the right buffs to support it, then sure, go with the better option that gives you the most damage. Won't really change anyone's job bias in the long run if you're pumping out 40k SBs in Apex. Nobody cares. Gearing for Savage blade isn't specifically new player friendly anyways, you'd need the requisite gear and accuracy to make it worthwhile. Not something a new player would accomplish quickly. It's just another cool tool in the ninja toolbox to be used appropriately when the situation calls for it

Whoever post about SB in drg and rng thread wasnt me, lol. In fact I advocate Decimation in rng melee discussion and I didn't post ***about drg, it was someone else.

Buukki stop being so emo and confused...


I've seen people bring SB nin to wave 3 runs and parsed top. So lol if you think people doesn't care about apex. It's a DD job with good DMG and survivability, always welcomed in endgame as well.

It's not quite that simple because WSD only applies to the first hit and you are clumping all the hits together under a single roll. That kind of math is useful for showing differences between BDMG on the same weapon skill but gets a bit uneven if your treating SB's extra hit the same way your treating it's main hit. Both WS's get MA rolls so extra hits will add into that mix too. You want to calculate damage for main hand separately from everything else.

Ultimately my point was that the person showing 24K Ten averages vs 45K Savage averages was doing something very VERY wrong. Should be more like 35~40K averages vs 40~45K averages. I figured they would be very close and a Naegling would pull ahead by well, 15%. Of course none of this is NIN's real weapon skill, Blade Chi owns all things.

I'm not convinced that hybrid WS is always the best for all things, personally. Physical WS still has its value.

If you're playing the way you all do (3 GEO 8 COR 2 BRD +scholar storms) yeah you should be hybriding all the things. Those hotshots would be bananas.

The one lucky DD that's allowed to play "not cor but not left out" gets 32 buffs should definitely Chi/Jinpu

You're right, I wasn't focusing on wsd gear since they'd both get the bonus and made the mistake of including that in my calculations. If I take the extra hit out completely, it's still 27% and 10% instead of 36% and 19%.

Also, no one posted 24K Tens and 45K Savage blades. One person posted 27K Tens with 36K Savage Blades and another posted 35K Tens with 47K Savage Blades. Only thing wrong with the first guy's sets is that both were subpar (evidently).

I was consistently getting 26k average Ten and 36k average Savage Blade. The 42k SB was a rare spike, probably a TA proc or something. My Ten didn't spike higher than 28900 in the brief time I tested, which is also shown. Maybe I should have just left spikes out if it's misleading. I also didn't bother with things like Boost-STR or Entrust-STR, which would give higher averages, since I don't often have that up when I'm on NIN, but I do often have the buffs I listed above.

I don't have perfect gear for either yet (here, in case you're curious), but 'max possible damage on Ninja' wasn't really the point of the test. It was more about showing how using the exact same gear I already had for Ten (my gearswap is literally sets.precast.WS['Savage Blade'] = sets.precast.WS['Blade: Ten']) and just swapping out to an easily obtainable weapon gave surprisingly good results. Better than I thought I was going to get.

I also find it interesting that, despite the differences between my gear/buffs and Haxetc's, while we have different averages the gap between the two WS was pretty close for both of us. ~10k for me, ~12k for him, consistently in both cases.

I'm not at all advocating "SB all the things!" (I'm not any more excited about using Sword on NIN more than anyone else here tbh - I also initially thought they would be much closer), but I don't think a gap like that is something you can just ignore. Everything is situational in this game and surely there will be situations where the SB damage is the appropriate option. That's all I'm pointing out.

The person with 35k ten and 47k sb was afaik using ilvl offhand and WSing at 3000tp, so no wonder his WS are much stronger, because offhand hits and offhand ma proc were not missing and had like 100+ higher base damage.

I've been under the impression an offhand of a different weapon type isn't used during weapon skills of a particular type.

That was me, actually. Mostly for memes, although it ended up performing, theoretically, well beyond I'd assumed it would.

Not particularly close to Kaja Lance/Shining One, nor the even stronger polearms, but still quiet well.

I highly doubt that offhand during WS is anything beyond check for base damage, accuracy and maybe attack. It probably wasnt tested but I bet its not being dropped only because its different type. More than likely the type of offahnd is not even checked and completely irrelevant.

You can get dagger skillups if you use fast blade... so... don't know why anyone would assume you don't even swing the offhand on a ws if its a different type of weapon.

I use it on bones.

Exalted Staff +1/Retribution still sucks :/

It's an easy assumption to make if I've literally never seen that occurrence in the 16 years I've been playing this game.

No need to be unconvinced, Blade: Chi works incredibly well on targets that do not have particular damage resistances.

The only "problem" I personally see with that is that it kinda requires more buffs/debuffs than physical WSs do.
It might seem irrelevant, but in many situation I think it's quite THE difference.

Yeah thats the main drawback for Hybrids is that they absolutely Require a good amount of buffs (Pdif, accuracy and additional MAB) to even work- none-the-less shine, but boy if you get those buffs they are probably the best option if the job has a solid hybrid. On a side note: Savage blade all the things!

Thats what I was referring to. There are entirely way too many mechanics in ffxi that no one dmg type can "own" all things.

I wish I can leaden salute own all things too, but I cant, realistically. Hence I said physical ws still has value.

Well it really requires people think a little bit about required buffs before hand and fine tune them for the players. Basically your gonna need an Idris GEO for Frailty + Malaise with COR doing SAM's + Fighters (or Chaos if attack not capped) and HM VM Min x 2 (maybe one Mad if acc is needed). Two NIN's can then go to town and pretty much obliterate anything not super high level.

Nobody is saying chi doesn't have the highest dps potential, we are saying it's not always the best WS for every situation in game. Thanks for confirming it.

What are the current sets looking like for blade chi? Are the sets current for BIS for all the others on the main page?

yeh where them blade chis bis sets at :D ??

I didn't wanna.... /lazy

hey guys, new to nin and confused with what REMA katanas to make, and is nin capable to do multiple skillchains solo? what would it be? and I haven't seen a nin in action for long long time, is it still worth the effort to put your gil in?