Dark Souls & Other Souls-Likes

this was awesome!!! thanks for posting it!!

Spent 6 hours off and on today in the Undead Burg. Aside from one jackass, who hid in the little room under the spawn point with Ring of Fog on so he could backstab me with a Lightning Greataxe, everyone I encountered was respectful and were pretty fun to fight against.

I absolutely love the Chaos Blade. When I was first getting into PvP, I'd read somewhere (probably IGN or GameFAQs) that it was a terrible weapon so I've been avoiding it. That 'advice' was a load of ***. Anyone telling you the Chaos Blade is a terrible (or even only decent) doesn't know what they're talking about. The self inflicted damage (biggest complaint) is pretty much negligible. It out ranges and out damages both the Uchigatana and Iato which is fantastic. And it's stylish as all hell. Two-handed strong attack isn't useless either. It's fantastic bait, used in the same manner Peeve uses the Demon Greataxe strong attack to bait gankers, and netted me many kills. Also nails people recovering from a backstab if timed properly.

On a personal level, I've found a weakness when fighting against Great Clubs. I just keep getting caught off guard by the speed and deceptive range of the rolling attack. I also really need to invest in or farm Green Blossoms sometime soon. My parrying needs a lot of work too. Couldn't even manage to parry a BKGA. :<

I'm gonna pick up Dark Souls when I get paid, but before I do I want to clarify something! I've been looking on Amazon (.co.uk, not .com) and I can't find "Dark Souls 2", is it "Demon Souls" or is it actually called "Dark Souls 2"? That's the only other thing I can find that's relatable/looks similar from the videos.

I also hate my 2 key for sticking and making it annoying to type "'s!

Demon Souls and Dark Souls are games from the same series, but they're unrelated location/plot wise, like a majority of the Final Fantasy series. As such, there's no reason to play one before the other.

They share a very similar battle system, Dark Souls' being more polished given it's the newer of the two games.

Closest thing to a Dark Souls 2 right now is the "Prepare to Die" content expansion released with the new PC version of the game and being put up for download for console version October 26th.

Ahhh, would explain why I can't actually find DS2 then XD Much appreciated! :D

I haven't even built a DEX weapon yet. I like the power of high poise and great swords. I used to use the great scythe until it became unreliable in PVP. I'm using the MLGS main with an enchanted claymore as my switch to weapon when MLGS is at risk.

Chaos Blade is only very very bad when you're doing challenge runs. If you use Sanctus to offset the self damage you're in an amazing position. Wolf Ring along with Cloranthy or Leo would be a nice mix to add to that.

I prefer the Grass Crest Shield to the Sanctus. The damage offset isn't worth the loss of stamina, which I consider to be the single most important stat in the game.

My Chaos Blade Build until PTD hits consoles. At that point, I'll go into a no/minimal poise build and rock Cloranthy Ring.

I could do it now, I suppose, but I'd get destroyed because the console PvP metagame is almost entirely based around poise.

You also wont need 2 Pyro flames since they fixed the bug where Power Within does more self damage with an upgraded flame.

You could remove the helm and use brigand hands/legs and you'll be at the 25% for DWGR to work fine and use dark hand as your secondary off hand for magic users

I play on PS3. I dunno if 360 has been patched or not, but DWGR and elemental weapons haven't been nerfed and Power Within hasn't been fixed on PS3 yet. Nor has the Elite Knight Set. ;_;

I imagine that'll change October 26th, until then I'll be abusing DWGR, because I never really did before, until it does get nerfed. Or until I get bored with it.

I already have a no poise set mostly picked out already too. I have a little room for potential changes, but I'm really fond of the entire Wanderer set, the Thief Mask and the Hard Leather Body Armor on females. I'll have to see how it looks. No poise PvP is all about style.

This thread is LONG overdue for a sticky.

And so it came to pass.

i meant after the dlc. i cant handle no poise i'd rather have mid roll and be able to sponge a hit. no poise means thorn sets can interrupt you all day. or i'd use the wolf ring and dwgr as my 2 rings

I'd put the wolf ring on for PvE, but PvP is fairly easy to go poiseless for. Especially for the DLC now that great swords can't stun lock you to death.

Spent the past few hours doing a mix of invading as darkmoon and not sucking at it and jolly co-operation in Anor Londo, enjoying the ***out of PvP and protecting hosts from invaders.

Moonlight greatsword +5 chugging repair powder is now my favorite build too.

not sure how to embed a youtube from a certain point, but i wanted to point out starting @7:10, where he's invading someone in anor londo, while being constantly invaded by darkmoons. It's beautiful and last almost 7 minutes.

Im still trying to decipher what this means D:

I think it has something to do with taking fall damage and having to heal during the boss fight and the boss killing you while using your estus.

Nito boss fight. When you're at range, he only uses the Gravelord Sword attack on you. This is about to come when you hear him scream. It's very feasible for him to pretty much open with it, which would get you if you tried to drink the moment you landed in his room.

oooh..like the exploding knees and 10 vitality had me confused.

though I thought I understood as Ive played the game and fell into many a boss fight through a hole and was deathly injured and needing to estus. But then there was the "eeeeee" and a sword and I was lost :(

My Nito fight was very much me screaming "I AM NOT EFFING RUNNING THROUGH THIS BS ZONE AGAIN YOU MF@#$#@@#$0" and then a couple leroyjenkins seconds later he was dead...so there was not much attention being had because the fear of having to repeat anything in the zone had me more terrified than the boss.

Yea, thankfully that fight isn't very difficult.

I just recently went through the tomb of the giants without any skull lantern or light spell... that was interesting.

I did that the first time I entered not knowing I needed it. I went back through and got the skull lantern but it sucked...and then left in a pissed fashion..then I went and bought the light spell but it still pissed me off. Worst zone ever. I still died every freaking step.

Dark Souls & the art of sadism: From Software speaks
Story by Dave Cook
Fri, Sep 21, 2012 | 16:48 BST

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Dark Souls was a cult hit for Japanese developer From Software. VG247′s Dave Cook speaks with the studio to reflect on the game’s development, success and future.

From Software was founded in Tokyo during 1986, but chances are you didn’t know about the studio until it released Dark Souls last year. It’s one of those Japanese developers that has a lot of games under its belt, but for some reason or other, it never had a strong Western voice.

In 2009, Demon’s Souls launched in Japan and the game quickly became a thing of cult legend. Once the West caught wind of its unique online features, crushing brutality and thoroughly rewarding progression, we wanted to experience it for ourselves.

But still, as creator Hidetaka Miyazaki tells us, while critical acclaim for the game was high, sale forceasts were woeful, “at the time when we just wrapped up development, the evaluation and sales forecast in our company were not good, so I did not even imagine that I could be given another opportunity to develop a similar title again.”

But eventually, the persistence of Western critics saw Demon’s Souls imported and reviewed in droves. The game finally had a footing in the West and eventually it was licensed for Europe by Namco Bandai as Demon’s Souls: Black Phantom Edition. It had a limited print run, but that initial wave of copies was quickly snapped up by gamers as word of mouth spread.

Regardless, Miyazaki’s peers weren’t convinced that a sequel would see the same success, “I had to convince company board or other members of the team but I did not tend to do that actively to be honest. I was reluctant to convince them when I was working on Demons Souls. That’s my bad habit.”

		“Dark Souls is a game offering a feeling of accomplishment which may be relatively rare among other games nowadays.”

Miyazaki may have felt sheepish about pushing for the development of Dark Souls, and who could blame him given the financial risk involved? After all, the success of Demon’s Souls could have just been a fluke.

But something must have worked because fast forwarding to today, From Software is now gearing up to launch Dark Souls’ first DLC expansion, ‘Artorias of the Abyss’ on PS3 and Xbox 360. The studio’s fan base has swelled considerably and demand is finally in place for more of the studio’s output.

The combined force of From Software’s vastly expanded ‘Souls’ format in Dark Souls and the marketing clout of Namco Bandai – not to mention its infamous ‘Prepare to Die’ slogan – paid off, and according to VGCharts most recent tally, the game has shifted over 1.67 million units worldwide.

Miyazaki offers us his own take on why he feels Dark Souls is a superior game, “One of the main achievements is the feeling of exploration given by the connected multi-level map. Another favourite is that players can share a moment of the bell ringing in online mode. As a creator of the game I have experienced both success and failure but I feel that our policy of creating a game that all gamers, regardless of different nationalities can immerse themselves in, was not wrong and it was supported by our development team.”

Finding a new fire in Dark Souls gives you an overwhelming sense of relief.

The release of Dark Souls was a global event, rather than a staggered spread like Demon’s Souls, so it’s touching that Miyazaki and his team wanted to make something that was globally inclusive. Collaboration with strangers is a key element of the game after all, with in-game messages and a vast Wiki guide community all growing and working together to help everyone beat the game.

It’s hard, so very, very hard, but it’s not the same kind of difficulty that comes with just bumping the challenge up to hard or expert mode. Instead, part of the gruelling experience is learning to be disciplined.

Run hastily around a blind corner, raise your shield too slowly, or simply swing weapons like you’re playing Bayonetta, and you’ll find yourself extremely dead, extremely fast. Discipline is the key, so in many ways your biggest enemy in Dark Souls is yourself.

But when you succeed and land that final killing blow on a particularly tough boss that’s been putting you through hell for hours, man does it feel sweet. Gratification makes the punishment bearable, and few games can match Dark Souls’ level of risk-reward, because everything is a potential risk.

Miyazaki knows it too, and while this angle was entirely deliberate, it wasn’t a sly shot at the easy nature or lack of creativity in the industry today, “what Dark Souls is offering is a feeling of accomplishment. That is the game concept of Dark Souls, so it looks a difficult game. Dark Souls is a game offering a feeling of accomplishment which may be relatively rare among other games nowadays”

“However,” he adds, “this does not mean [the industry] lacks creativity, but a shift of values offered by games. If the game industry lacks creativity, this will result in a stagnation in value that games offer, but I believe that games are still a media providing players with new and diverse value.”

Games today do feel easier than their old-school counterpart – by and large. After all, you wouldn’t take a game like the original 1987 Mega Man and say that something like Halo was easier, because it’s absolutely not. Instead, it’s the context of the challenge that sets them apart.

	“I am grateful for all who have played and highly evaluated Dark Souls, and honestly glad of the fact that people say it was a success.”

One tasks you with memory mapping stages and hazards, while the other tests your ability to react on the fly. So which is Dark Souls? It’s both, and in greater measure, which understandably resulted in many players abandoning it before they really got started.

Regardless, Miyazaki wasn’t prepared to go easy on you, “Ideally I wanted players to feel despair at first and then tiny hope while facing bosses. Enemies that do not drive players hopeless are not fearful at all, and can not offer that feeling of accomplishment once you beat them. Without a tiny piece of hope players may give up facing them. or struggling to beat them up.

Do the latter and you’ll earn yourself the elation that comes with beating the seemingly impossible. It’s seriously worth the heartache just to feel it, and those who have felt it will likely agree that few games can match that same sense of achievement.

Arguably one of the toughest areas of Dark Souls is Sen’s Fortress, a dank, depressing husk of a castle rammed full of thin walkways, swinging blades and merciless rolling boulders. We ask Miyazaki to explain himself for his crimes against humanity, “I personally enjoyed designing connections of the overall map, and the trap of the giant rolling ball. Our development team called it “Mugen Goro goro” that means ‘endless rolling’ in Japanese.

We ask Miyazki if he can shed light on any elements of Dark Souls that were perhaps chopped or changed radically, but as is the nature of From Software, he’s cautious of giving too much away, “As for evolution through the development process I remember that the location of Darkroot Garden was changed by the development term. The dungeon was actually placed to be reached after Anor Londo.”

Whatever its final form, Dark Souls has upset, frustrated, depressed and brought joy to gamers across the world. It’s a testament that people are willing to give new ideas a chance, and more importantly, to trust in relatively unknown Japanese quantities like From Software in the West.

But as From Software are now known to a wider, global audience, could Miyazaki see his team returning for a third ‘Souls’ game? He tells us that while he would jump at the chance if fans demand was there, the decision is ultimately, not his to make.

However, Miyazaki is a man humbled by the success of a game that is basically designed to grind you down into the ground, before giving you the gift of short-lived accomplishment, “I am grateful for all who have played and highly evaluated Dark Souls, and honestly glad of the fact that people say it was a success.”

What’s your view? Share your best and worst Dark Souls moments with us below.

Dark Souls: Artorias of the Abyss launches on PS3 and Xbox 360 across North America October 23, Europe and Australasia October 24.

I'm sure many would disagree with me here, but I honestly believe PvP would be much more fun (it already is) if they removed backstabs, if there was no latency/lag then backstabs would be ok but when people can magically get behind you and one shot you, not fun D:

Having a hell of a time using the Cat Covenant Ring.

My last three "fights" were amazing.

Target #1: Used nothing but the beginner sorcery magic. Dead in seconds.

Target #2: Bowed properly and dueled. I immediately parried the first swing he made and he got scared shitless and accidently walked off a cliff.

Target #3: Hacking. Backstabbed him for "64901" damage but he was completely unphased. He was afk, so I booted him off a cliff.

I love this game.

this bossfight will be Nito Haha

Eh, sometimes backstabbing is the only way to kill someone who has duped 99 Divine Blessings. That and it's really not hard to avoid it. PhantomEWGF's guides are really really helpful in that regard.

It also adds a risk/reward feature to PvP. In PvE, mistakes will generally lead to death. Backstabs add that element to PvP. Something I enjoy.

I do wish people wouldn't use builds based entirely around backstabbing though.

I just did about an hours session being human in darkroot for invasions and it was the most fun I've had in the game, I got a 12 killstreak and I've still got adrenaline making my hands shaky :3

I'm starting to get the hang of dodging backstab fishers :D

using a weapon that allows you to change your cardinal direction midswing really helps against backstab fishers also. keeping you're back to a wall or going to a bridge works wonders to keep people from rolling around constantly

Started my second attempt at that Bow Only challenge. Round 2 is going waaaaaaaaay better. Possibly due to me making a suicide run for the Composite Bow in New Londo.

I'll have two bows ready to go by the end of the run. Chaos Composite Bow +5 with Fire Arrows for close quarters combat (Composite and Short Bow have faster firing and reloading than any other bow) and Black Bow of Pharis +15 with Feather Arrows for sniping.

Also tempted to do an initial level Thief with Daggers only challenge. No shields, lightning/fire/chaos upgrades or equip burden increasing rings restrictions too.

Zero poise PvP is pretty damn fun. Peeve Peeverson is rather good at it. He's also good at annihilating gank squads.