Remember to take note on the Crabs data.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
Coruscanti Testing
Coruscanti Testing
Asura.Vrytreya said: »
Remember to take note on the Crabs data.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
could it simply be acting like the monster has no defense? or negating the monsters defense by a certain amount?
Bismarck.Crimy said: »
Asura.Vrytreya said: »
Remember to take note on the Crabs data.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
could it simply be acting like the monster has no defense? or negating the monsters defense by a certain amount?
The question now is : Could the range be verified as capped pDIF? If they can, then we call it auto-(c)Ratio cap for this ODSD phenomenon; However, If the range invalidate the capped pDIF min and max bound, we can't call it auto-(c)Ratio cap.
The thing is if there's a constant to multiply your attack, then it's certainly must not be 2 because it's definitely doesn't agree with the crab test. If it's higher (like 10x?), then the anomaly range should be verified as capped (c)Ratio, otherwise it will be a really really weird range.
*burns all the coruscantis in a fire*
thank god only took me 3 kills to get that junk dagger.
soo would this be a good dagger to have for zergs on high def targets with fighters roll up? say.. ADL?
Actually there's more important question regarding ODSD : Can it proc in multi-hit WS? Such that, in Evisceration, if it trigger on 2nd hit, the 3rd, 4th, and 5th hit will have the proc (possibly offhand as well?) If it does, then that fact alone will boost the worth of this dagger, just like Borealis.
Add : Speaking of Borealis and Resolution:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28240/borealis-on-drk/3/
If what JP wiki say is right (8% proc rate, and damage is multiplied by 1.5), then the proc rate is very similar to what we've found, since resolution is multi-hit WS, multi-hit is always guaranteed->~10% proc rate.
Add : Speaking of Borealis and Resolution:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28240/borealis-on-drk/3/
If what JP wiki say is right (8% proc rate, and damage is multiplied by 1.5), then the proc rate is very similar to what we've found, since resolution is multi-hit WS, multi-hit is always guaranteed->~10% proc rate.
It's a shame I'm not over there as I still need to work on my angon dagger and I'm currently on crabs.
@vrytreya its possible as I have seen weird numbers with exentorater, I wrote them off as thinking I 8 hit.
@vrytreya its possible as I have seen weird numbers with exentorater, I wrote them off as thinking I 8 hit.
If attacks is such an important factor to determining the ODSD of this dagger, would it help with the testing if you sub WAR and ride Defender to lower your attack and add another variable of data to the already growing amount of experiments/data on this page?
The amount of information in this thread already is staggering @_@ Keep it up and good luck! ^_^
The amount of information in this thread already is staggering @_@ Keep it up and good luck! ^_^
testing it on WSs would suck. would have to use dancing edge, but if it works at all on WSs, the spike would change depending on which hit procced it. ie: a proc on hit 2 would do way more damage than one on hit 5, if thats how it works.
Wouldn't any non crit multi hit ws work? I.E.Exenterator?
Fenrir.Hanabira said: »
testing it on WSs would suck. would have to use dancing edge, but if it works at all on WSs, the spike would change depending on which hit procced it. ie: a proc on hit 2 would do way more damage than one on hit 5, if thats how it works.
edit: and if it worked this way, multi hit weapon skills would get a massive damage boost if proc'd on the 2nd hit through 5th or 6th.
I'm going to assume it doesn't work tha way for WS because
1.) I don't want to test it
2.) This 2 onry (DA). 2+3 or 3 onry (TA) processing pattern already exists for THF and WAR, and doesn't affect the remaining hits.
1.) I don't want to test it
2.) This 2 onry (DA). 2+3 or 3 onry (TA) processing pattern already exists for THF and WAR, and doesn't affect the remaining hits.
Using the old equations for max and min on bgwiki's pDIF page (I know they're outdated, but they should give us a ballpark, I hope)
If my minimum during scissor guard was 12 dmg, then we can estimate that the crabs had ~987 DEF when guard was up.
(1.129 × 545/(X) - 0.430)*(49+13) = 12
Or, we can say that cRatio was ~0.552.
The equation on bgwiki for max pDIF:
(1.019 × 545/987 + 0.485)*(49+13) ---> 65 damage max during Scissor guard for a normal hit, which is more or less consistent with what I saw.
Multiplying attack by 2:
(1.019 × (545*2)/987 + 0.485)*(49+13) --> 99 damage max on normal attacks if Coruscanti was multiplying attack by 2, 50 damage minimum.
The equations may not be extremely accurate, but I don't think they could be inaccurate enough to produce a 44% error (99 vs. 143).
I guess we could look at crits too.
Using minimum crits:
(1.007 × 545/X + 0.51)(49+13)*1.11 = 70
X ~ 1082
If we say then that defense is somewhere between 987 and 1082 with scissor guard up, doubling attack has even less of a chance to account for those values.
Still should wait for Motenten to analyze, though, before we can say anything for certain.
If my minimum during scissor guard was 12 dmg, then we can estimate that the crabs had ~987 DEF when guard was up.
(1.129 × 545/(X) - 0.430)*(49+13) = 12
Or, we can say that cRatio was ~0.552.
The equation on bgwiki for max pDIF:
(1.019 × 545/987 + 0.485)*(49+13) ---> 65 damage max during Scissor guard for a normal hit, which is more or less consistent with what I saw.
Multiplying attack by 2:
(1.019 × (545*2)/987 + 0.485)*(49+13) --> 99 damage max on normal attacks if Coruscanti was multiplying attack by 2, 50 damage minimum.
The equations may not be extremely accurate, but I don't think they could be inaccurate enough to produce a 44% error (99 vs. 143).
I guess we could look at crits too.
Using minimum crits:
(1.007 × 545/X + 0.51)(49+13)*1.11 = 70
X ~ 1082
If we say then that defense is somewhere between 987 and 1082 with scissor guard up, doubling attack has even less of a chance to account for those values.
Still should wait for Motenten to analyze, though, before we can say anything for certain.
For capped cRatio/fSTR, I get a minimum of 96 and a maximum of ~156 for Coruscanti using the old equations.
I can't really follow the new pDIF thread, but it looks like these values are going to fall in the right range for auto-cap/completely ignoring enemy defense.
I can't really follow the new pDIF thread, but it looks like these values are going to fall in the right range for auto-cap/completely ignoring enemy defense.
By the way, I just want to point out that while I've always thought my skills at speaking Dev-ese are pretty good:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27007/coruscanti-occasionally-deals-severe-damage/#1631343
I called this back in November.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27007/coruscanti-occasionally-deals-severe-damage/#1631343
I called this back in November.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
By the way, I just want to point out that while I've always thought my skills at speaking Dev-ese are pretty good:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27007/coruscanti-occasionally-deals-severe-damage/#1631343
I called this back in November.
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27007/coruscanti-occasionally-deals-severe-damage/#1631343
I called this back in November.
NINJA EDIT!!
That post has never been edited!
Analysis of crab data
545 attack
DC mobs (no level correction)
Verification: all hits were with the crab having Scissor Guard up, yes?
Minimum damage: 12
Implied cRatio: ((12/62) + 0.4375) / 1.15 == 0.549 - 0.561
cRatio implies a defense of between 972 and 993.
Max damage at ~0.55 cRatio: 1.0 pDif
High spike at 62~65 damage (normal)
All data from 66 to ~90 (indeed, 51 to 89 range has much higher frequencies than the lower end of the graph) must therefore be from non-Scissor Guarded crabs, which makes any analysis of possible high damage effects nearly impossible.
Problem is that the frequency of the low damage (high def) data indicates that only a very small portion of the samples were taken with Scissor Guard up. That means most of the data is the same as the previous tests, which makes the occurances of 101-150 range mostly meaningless.
Would perhaps be possible to analyze if you could provide the detailed data from the Extra Attacks tab, so I could see which high damage data points go with the high def results.
Edit: Ah, clicking on the graph makes the actual text readable, and I see you made a point of which values were seen during Scissor Guard.
We already got a rough estimate of the cRatio range that would be necessary for those data values on the earlier test -- ~1.90 to 2.05 -- which is significantly higher than double the ~0.55; even triple wouldn't suffice.
So yes, that is sufficient to indicate basically setting cRatio to max. The only question is whether it sets cRatio to 2.0, or sets Ratio to 2.0 but still allows for level correction (so 1.95 as the final result for the buffalo tests, for example).
545 attack
DC mobs (no level correction)
Verification: all hits were with the crab having Scissor Guard up, yes?
Minimum damage: 12
Implied cRatio: ((12/62) + 0.4375) / 1.15 == 0.549 - 0.561
cRatio implies a defense of between 972 and 993.
Max damage at ~0.55 cRatio: 1.0 pDif
High spike at 62~65 damage (normal)
All data from 66 to ~90 (indeed, 51 to 89 range has much higher frequencies than the lower end of the graph) must therefore be from non-Scissor Guarded crabs, which makes any analysis of possible high damage effects nearly impossible.
Vrytreya said:
Remember to take note on the Crabs data.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
If there's 12 damage when scissors guard is up, "doubling attack" isn't enough to explain 107~143 damage range.
Problem is that the frequency of the low damage (high def) data indicates that only a very small portion of the samples were taken with Scissor Guard up. That means most of the data is the same as the previous tests, which makes the occurances of 101-150 range mostly meaningless.
Would perhaps be possible to analyze if you could provide the detailed data from the Extra Attacks tab, so I could see which high damage data points go with the high def results.
Edit: Ah, clicking on the graph makes the actual text readable, and I see you made a point of which values were seen during Scissor Guard.
We already got a rough estimate of the cRatio range that would be necessary for those data values on the earlier test -- ~1.90 to 2.05 -- which is significantly higher than double the ~0.55; even triple wouldn't suffice.
So yes, that is sufficient to indicate basically setting cRatio to max. The only question is whether it sets cRatio to 2.0, or sets Ratio to 2.0 but still allows for level correction (so 1.95 as the final result for the buffalo tests, for example).
[+]
In 2 hours of crabs, I saw scissor guard literally 5 times. I could not get the crabs to use it, it was ridiculous.
When they would use it, 10% of the crab would be remaining. There has to be a better way?
When they would use it, 10% of the crab would be remaining. There has to be a better way?
Nevermind, I guess you don't need the detail info anymore!
You got 502 attack vs Bluffalo without /war. Using Defender full time you should be able to manage ~384 attack, which would be 0.687 cRatio. If you were using the str cruor buff to cap fStr, drop that and give your total str so we can calculate actual fStr (not that it should be necessary; it will show up on the graph readily enough).
That should be enough to validate the apparent effect of the test.
Edit: Vs T Bluffalo, of course.
That should be enough to validate the apparent effect of the test.
Edit: Vs T Bluffalo, of course.
All right, hopefully there are people killing Bluffalo. Crimy is studying so I can't draft him into slavery again!
I've managed 399 with defender, 101+21 STR. Testing with defender as I type.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
I've managed 399 with defender, 101+21 STR. Testing with defender as I type.
Ballista doesn't work for testing? or is that what your doing
Ballista rules are not the same as regular game rules.
If I was on Bismarck Syl, I'd help in a heartbeat D:
I honestly don't have anything other than Clothcraft these days, so much free time!
I honestly don't have anything other than Clothcraft these days, so much free time!
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Ballista rules are not the same as regular game rules.
k, didn't know
I cannot seem to get them to go above EM solo.
Yeah, they absolutely WILL NOT level up further than EM with me solo and some random THF running around killing them
Maybe one of these values is enough to get an answer:
399 Attack (Defender), 101+21 STR, EM Bluffalo
There was one lone T when I got here. :/
Maybe one of these values is enough to get an answer:
399 Attack (Defender), 101+21 STR, EM Bluffalo
There was one lone T when I got here. :/
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