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17 * 5 = 100?
 Bahamut.Danthebk
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 198
By Bahamut.Danthebk 2011-12-26 08:16:27
Just a question,does the modifiers on ws written around in wiki and bg wiki on all the ws,like emp one that is stated 60%,or old ws like tachi gekko 75% or relic 60%,those values are already calculated whit alpha,or they still need to be calculated?
Still need alpha to be calculated.
Bismarck.Sylow
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3111
By Bismarck.Sylow 2011-12-26 11:17:50
Leviathan.Kincard said: »I don't get SE's logic behind making the system so damn convoluted to begin with, honestly. Why would you bother adding the alpha factor to correct for someone's level...isn't the whole point of getting higher levels to get higher stats, so why add the extra penalty to player as they level up? Why not just make their stats grow slower?
There's level correction on WSC, but the full potency of your stat is used to calculate things like Attack, Evasion, Defense, Acc, (assumedly MACC), and things like fSTR, dINT that compare your stats to the enemy's stats use the full value, too.
By darkhorror 2011-12-26 22:17:51
Just a question,does the modifiers on ws written around in wiki and bg wiki on all the ws,like emp one that is stated 60%,or old ws like tachi gekko 75% or relic 60%,those values are already calculated whit alpha,or they still need to be calculated?
The alpha still needs to be applied. The mod on these new weaponskills is 1.0 at 5/5. With the alpha you get .85 which is the 85% that SE has written into the ws.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Sylph.Sukasaroth 2011-12-26 22:58:09
"Modifiers are what people talk about when they have no idea of what they're talking about"-
-Rykoshet(Fairy Server)
 Sylph.Krsone
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1299
By Sylph.Krsone 2011-12-26 23:03:03
 Bismarck.Markas
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 506
By Bismarck.Markas 2011-12-27 00:25:23
FFS SYLOW, IN ENGRISH PRZ!
 Ragnarok.Stiel
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 105
By Ragnarok.Stiel 2011-12-28 06:03:45
That suck... so 75x 0.85 = 63,75% and 60 x 0.85= 51% real WSC?
 Leviathan.Kincard
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1442
By Leviathan.Kincard 2011-12-28 09:47:53
There's level correction on WSC, but the full potency of your stat is used to calculate things like Attack, Evasion, Defense, Acc, (assumedly MACC), and things like fSTR, dINT that compare your stats to the enemy's stats use the full value, too.
Yeah, and those are subject to level correction based on the monster's level, and by extension those things will affect your weapon skill damage...I dunno, it just seems dumb to me they'd add in the alpha factor which reduces your damage based on YOUR level and not the monster you're fighting.
There seems to be a bit of common confusion on these forums as of late, so I figured I would clear things up with a little discussion on the WS damage formula.
The problem comes from the description of the new WS merits in the in-game menu. For example, for Exenterator, it will say "Raise the AGI modifier by 17%"
Well, let's talk for a moment how the WS damage formula works:
WS Base Damage = floor(( Weapon Base Damage + (Ammo Damage) + fSTR(2) + WSC ) * fTP)
I'll clarify a little for you:
1.) The floor() function rounds an decimal value down to the nearest integer. For example, floor(1.1) = floor(1.9) = 1
2.) fSTR and fSTR2 are functions of your STR and the target's VIT, which a little differently from each other and cap differently. fSTR2 is only used for Ranged Weapons. Essentially, fSTR(2) adds or takes away base damage to your weapon based on how much STR you have compared to your target's VIT.
3.) fTP is essentially the "power" of your weapon skill scaled to a normal hit. A normal hit has an fTP of 1.0.
4.) WSC is what we call the modifier of a WS, so in this case, when we merit the new weapon skills, we're altering the %modifier of the WSC. Essentially, WSC adds base damage to your weapon for the WS based on whatever the stat that modifies it is. WSC is also subject to level correction. We call this level correction factor α, and it varies with our level (starts out as 1.0 at level 1, decreases to 0.83 at level 75, and is 0.85 at level 99).
How do we calculate WSC then?
For a WS which is modified by stat A (X%) and stat B (Y%):
WSC = floor (floor((A x X%) + (B x Y%)) x α)
For the new WS, they've already taken account the level correction in the merit point description. So really, what they call a 17% increase, is actually a 20% increase scaled back by the 0.85 α-factor.
Notice: 0.85 * 20 = 17
0.85 * (20*5) 0.85 * 100 = 85
and since multiplication is associative
(0.85*20) * 5 = 17 * 5 = 85
tl;dr ALL NEW WS ARE 100% MODIFIERS AT 5/5 MERIT UPGRADES, SCALED BY A LEVEL CORRECTION FACTOR OF 0.85, WHICH RESULTS IN THE INTEGER PART OF 85% OF YOUR MODIFIER STAT BEING ADDED TO THE BASE DAMAGE OF YOUR WS.
In other words, there's no need to respond to threads with the title of this one. You're just showing that you don't know how the damage formula works.
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