Tachi: Shoha

In a long term fight? Yes, it does. More double proc = more spikes = higher average damage.

I see, and what in game now is considered long term fight? out of curiousness. because last i checked nothing lasts more than 2-3 minutes.

For 1. They're nerfing Embrava so expect longer fights~

2. By long term I mean where you do a lot more weapon skills than normal? Idk but Pil I can get off at least 20 weapon skills and he's not even hard.

It's preferences I guess, I like Atheling and feel it out does Unkai. Also Unkai's +14 attack not +17.

They're rather even actually, but Atheling pulls ahead slightly due to being able to DA both hits on Shoha.

Right, and the longer the fight goes the more chances DA has to proc. lol

i see, everyone is entitled to opinions, i go for the mod on unkai because...well SAM and all WS's are STR mod, but just a little FYI it is 17 attack, take it off look at attack, then put it back on.....5 STR = 3 attack 14+3=17.

and are you eyeballing all of this? or do you run parses on say 1000-2000 weapon skills?

you realize parsing only helps determining unknown things right? and the shoha damage formula is known

If you wish to have more solid info to go after, Aerison on page 10, in this thread compared those backpieces through Motenten's spreadsheet for Shoha.

Atheling will give you a higher average damage than Unkai (for Shoha).

An average is a single value (as a mean, mode, or median) that summarizes or represents the general significance of a set of unequal values.

Most of the time Atheling will do better than Unkai. There are other times where Unkai will do slightly better in a parse. Short fights and long fights don't really have much to do with it besides the fact that in short fights you have have a smaller sample size, meaning you have less chances to double attack and Unkai has a higher chance to do better in a parse. With a smaller sample size you also have less significant data. It's very simple.


An average is a set value. Your opinion (which has nothing to do with an average), in this instance, will give you a lower average damage on Shoha.

'nuff said.

Time to put Unkai in storage then I guess... Always thought this was the better choice seeing as how it's been in everyone's WS set the last few pages.

Unkai's still good for Fudo, I use Unkai for Fudo Atheling for Shoha.

like i said opinions. not saying your wrong Reg, but i think i'll stick to my mathed out parses, beings a computer generated applications is never wrong.

not bashing you in any way or doubting what u said above, but saying things and proving them are whole different story. i know my sam, and 99/100 parses i ***on any sam. thats enough for me to know im doing right.

as far as the atheling mantle thing goes, i will stick with my unkai, but i see both sides of the coin in this debate, highly doubt back piece alone defines your numbers, just dont see reasoning losing 5 STR and 17 attack when i'm already 3% Quad 2% triple and 16% double in gear /job traits on weaponskills.

another argument that may need to be brought up is if your using Masa/Amano/Kora/Tp Bonus GK, with Masamune i could see using atheling, but anyways thats all for me tonight.

What does the GK matter? Shoha functions the same regardless of what specific GK it's being used from. Only difference I can think of is that Masa has STR+ on it.

Edit: Well, and the accuracy on Amano to help land hits from Shoha. But I'm talking strictly on Shoha's function not the stats from the GKs.

you are actually losing 3 atk when doing a full comparison to unkai vs atheling

20atk 3DA vs 5str 14 atk

3atk 3DA vs 5str

3 atk 3 DA will probably win since, iirc; DA can proc on both hits of shoha.

You should remember that using parses as source of info to gear yourself isn't reliable, since it factor in playstyle which skewers the results regarding neck-to-neck comparisons with gear sets - which is the whole point of this thread.


Don't know why it would matter if you paired Atheling with Masamune only instead of the above mentioned GK's.

They all gain the same benefits from Atheling for Shoha.

Did you think WSC caps on WS?

I mentioned atheling with masa because of its massive STR buff to ws's, I have both masa and amano, I see the unkai being better option for those weapons that lose the MOD on ws's, beings 5 STR loss isn't that marginal using masamune, it can be for the other's I listed. I see the DA% thing I do, but like I said when I have 16% in DA gear, I dont like idea of losing STR where it can be filled.

Amano DOES not have native STR on weapon, nor does Kanto or Koga. the point I was bringing up was that. losing to much of your main modifier for "3% more DA" does not seem plauseable, not to me at least.

You're not losing a lot of STR by using Atheling over Unkai, you're losing ONLY 5 STR regardless of which GK you use. Masa BOOSTS your STR you don't LOSE any STR at all by using a different GK. Since it's a weapon you can't exactly switch it for a WS while you can do that with the back.

The reason Atheling is better than Unkai for Shoha will affect any of the GK's you mentioned in the same way.

You could have a GK with +100 STR and Atheling would still be better.

your not seeing what im getting at....im saying that using masamune u have MORE STR overall....the fact u can lose a little STR on back is a reason FOR ME to MAYBE use ATHELING on SHOHA with MASAMUNE.

on AMANO where THERE IS NO STR ON WEAPON losing 5 STR on back for the DA% is not worth it...when u dont have 15 STR to factor in and there is slots that can occupy why not use Unkai? my point is this, STR is what raises your AVG when it comes to consistency. 15 STR on level 90 masamune is ALOT. no STR on Amano is nothing. that make sense now?

^This, regardless of the weapon you still only gain 5 STR over 3 Att and 3 DA.

Short. Sweet. Correct.

out of curiosity what is your avg weaponskills?
Dyna/outside Dyna "farming etc."/VW
im guessing not very high.

What's so hard to understand about what we're saying? The friggin Mantles are IN NO WAY AT ALL affected by ANY OTHER SLOT, ESPECIALLY NOT THAT OF THE WEAPON.

and what would you consider your average?

lol....once again not seeing what im saying....say's the person who say's there's 14 attack on Unkai....I think I'll stick with what i know. look at your damn stat +'s see where it say's +STR? notice when u have less STR on your gear it shows less on the +STR? that is all.............nothing more....i'm done....good night

. . . . . . . . . One hour of my life I won't get back used trying to explain this to you, GL with your future endeavors. .

consider my average?
well, when i run parse's, like EVERYTHING i do.

outside just messing around /DNC around 2600.
spike around 46-4800.
"this is in seigan/third eye.
most the time i'm alone farming my LC item's and not resting so /DNC beneficial.
"no food"
DC Drachenlizards in North Gustaberg (s)

inside Dynamis /dnc "proc purposes" seems to be around 2800-3k
spikes /dnc around 5.5k seen over 6k few times
DC Nightmare Mobs
"food on"

inside Dynamis /war farming ADL pops etc. avg boggles up a bit 3-4k
highest spikes almost reach 7k "Demons have little under avg."
DC Demons obviously
"food on"

VW really depends on the buffs you get, my highest to date was on Qilin for 7,236. avg really depends on what sort of buffs i get, proc rate for drinks etc. all and all around 3300ish avg.

LOLABYSSEA dont matter but i have done 10-14k on various NM's.

and unlike most i don't parse to see how i fare against others, i do it to see where i need improvement gear wise, cant compare a race to another, beings some races have native stronger damage, "seeing where my accuracy on certain mob's lay, the average attack, the average weaponskill, the spike etc." because there is always room for improvement, i always try different set-ups to see how things work, especially on mobs like Ig-Alima and high tier'd monster's where an accurate read needs more investigating.

And you could have given me your sets and I could have told you that with a spreadsheet or with a pen/calculator.

Let me just repeat this: parses mean jack all.