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Tachi: Shoha
 Carbuncle.Xenhas
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 664
By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2012-01-06 11:47:46
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Why are you swinging soooo much D:
p.s. who are you doing Kaggen with to do that much dmg on SAM :/
SAM is good and all but 66k dmg on SAM is uh yea. Kaggen should take like 4-5min tops and thats in a PUG. Not enough time for you to swing 8 times before you WS.
i did 18.5% of the total damage (still first if it mattered)
time hits/misses
06:03 38/3
04:05 28/1
04:42 40/2
07:15 29/3
04:06 38/0
04:21 44/1
03:24 25/2
03:58 36/1
too lazy to do the rest
leader wanted to hold sometimes for white proc, explaining the 6 and 7 minute fights
but I don't see how an average of 36.38 swings (including misses, DA, hassozhin) is "swinging too much" for 3-7 minute fights, especially considering amnesia on Kaggen.
These are pick-up groups based off of a key 5-10ish players from Audacity + 2-3 people from my LS who normally go.
Coming from someone who has a parser running on literally everything I do, I think you guys are just severely underestimating what you are actually doing damage-wise.
Set up your own parses in VWNM and see for yourselves.
edit: Tachi: Shoha low565/high4194 average2208.15 from 150 WS
with /war and VWNM temps as only ATT buffs, if anyone who has a decent sample size using TP bonus GK can compare to?
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 Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-06 12:07:51
Leviathan.Snakeslice said: »I still don't get where people are coming in saying 20/80 is swinging too much. Only nm I've parced is pil (me with TP bonus and friend with Masa90). They were avging 2K wses so lets go with this, looking at tp dmg and assuming worst case, no ODD on 2 wings per ws that's 400dmg and 600dmg on 3 swings. So no ODD 2swings that's a 16.7/83.3 split and 23/77 split on 3 hit rounds. Factor in 50% ODD and a 2hit becomes 23/77 and 3 hit turns to a 31/69 split.
20/80 should be about right for a SAM.
Quetzalcoatl.Generic
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-06 12:25:58
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Why are you swinging soooo much D:
p.s. who are you doing Kaggen with to do that much dmg on SAM :/
SAM is good and all but 66k dmg on SAM is uh yea. Kaggen should take like 4-5min tops and thats in a PUG. Not enough time for you to swing 8 times before you WS.
i did 18.5% of the total damage (still first if it mattered)
time hits/misses
06:03 38/3
04:05 28/1
04:42 40/2
07:15 29/3
04:06 38/0
04:21 44/1
03:24 25/2
03:58 36/1
too lazy to do the rest
leader wanted to hold sometimes for white proc, explaining the 6 and 7 minute fights
but I don't see how an average of 44.8 swings (including misses, DA, hassozhin) is "swinging too much" for 3-7 minute fights, especially considering amnesia on Kaggen.
These are pick-up groups based off of a key 5-10ish players from Audacity + 2-3 people from my LS who normally go.
Coming from someone who has a parser running on literally everything I do, I think you guys are just severely underestimating what you are actually doing damage-wise.
Set up your own parses in VWNM and see for yourselves.
edit: Tachi: Shoha low565/high4194 average2208.15 from 150 WS
with /war and VWNM temps as only ATT buffs, if anyone who has a decent sample size using TP bonus GK can compare to? You did 66k dmg to Kaggen in 1 fight or all 15?
I'm confused now
Carbuncle.Xenhas
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 664
By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2012-01-06 12:32:19
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »You did 66k dmg to Kaggen in 1 fight or all 15?
I'm confused now
I never said i did 66kdmg in a single fight.
I said
cuz when you do 20k-40k damage a fight and 20-35% of that damage comes from melee swings, all of a sudden, your WS damage is the only thing that matters, and you can ignore the 4k-14k damage you make during melee phases.
the 14k was 35% of 40k, as I gave ranges. Sorry for any confusion.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 13:19:53
Not quite sure where people are getting the extra 10~30 Save TP to where they don't have to swing 2-3 times before weaponskilling again, but a 20/80 split for a Samurai in Voidwatch is about right.
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Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-06 13:27:32
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Not quite sure where people are getting the extra 10~30 Save TP to where they don't have to swing 2-3 times before weaponskilling again, but a 20/80 split for a Samurai in Voidwatch is about right.
Typical buffs
Net you 20atma+25misers+18ish WS = 63 swing 22 = regain6-10 = WS
So yeah you'll need med up, 2 tics of regain, 2 swings, or DA/zanhasso to proc to reach 100tp. With Shoha atleast you can get 100tp again before the animation is done.
Forgot AF2+2a body (unconfirmed 10tp return) and savetp. I've definitely had multiple 70tp return WSs. (maybe a cap?)
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 13:36:16
5TP from Saotome Domaru +2, right now it's 5 per hit of the weaponskill which is why 10 was being reported with Shoha, but that's being adjusted.
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-06 13:52:03
Valefor.Prothescar said: »5TP from Saotome Domaru +2, right now it's 5 per hit of the weaponskill which is why 10 was being reported with Shoha, but that's being adjusted.
You sure?
I was told 10savetp from Fudo. But haven't seen proof either way.
Quetzalcoatl.Generic
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-06 13:53:15
To put what I was saying into perspective, I opened a parse that has 15 kaggen fights in it.
542347 damage was done with Masamune90
127373 (23.49 %) was from melee hits
127k damage isn't something to neglect just because SAMs are doing 20/80 spreads of damage
This is what I was talking about. I can't tell if u did 66k dmg in 1 of those fights or 66k dmg total in all 15
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 13:54:55
Valefor.Prothescar said: »5TP from Saotome Domaru +2, right now it's 5 per hit of the weaponskill which is why 10 was being reported with Shoha, but that's being adjusted.
You sure?
I was told 10savetp from Fudo. But haven't seen proof either way.
80% sure. Will go check on the test server real quick.
 Gilgamesh.Hunewearl
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 167
By Gilgamesh.Hunewearl 2012-01-06 14:07:31
coz you like, melee so much in VW, AM is wreally cereal guise cuz when you do 20k-40k damage a fight and 20-35% of that damage comes from melee swings, all of a sudden, your WS damage is the only thing that matters, and you can ignore the 4k- 14k damage you make during melee phases. shut up
lol According to your profile, you quit. You can take your trolling elsewhere.
To put what I was saying into perspective, I opened a parse that has 15 kaggen fights in it.
542347 damage was done with Masamune90
127373 (23.49 %) was from melee hits
127k damage isn't something to neglect just because SAMs are doing 20/80 spreads of damage.
My saveTP atmacite is level 15, full temps etcetc usually with COR + haste at least.
My SAM is far from trash lolIt's far from impresive, too.
Carbuncle.Xenhas
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 664
By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2012-01-06 14:08:37
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »
To put what I was saying into perspective, I opened a parse that has 15 kaggen fights in it.
542347 damage was done with Masamune90
127373 (23.49 %) was from melee hits
127k damage isn't something to neglect just because SAMs are doing 20/80 spreads of damage
This is what I was talking about. I can't tell if u did 66k dmg in 1 of those fights or 66k dmg total in all 15
I did 542347 over 15 fights. 127373(23.49%) of the 542347 damage is melee damage.
SAM damage spread is roughly 20/80 (in this case, it was 23/77)
People were trolling and saying that SAM melee dmg is junk, as a way to make Masamune ODD and Amano 2.5x proc seem irrelevant as an argument to how Masamune and Amano compare to TP Bonus GK.
I was highlighting how 127k damage over 15 fights came from only melee damage, and how melee damage is important to consider, even if it is only 20% of your total damage on SAM in VWNM.
Although, I still don't see where you get 66k damage from :(
Carbuncle.Xenhas
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 664
By Carbuncle.Xenhas 2012-01-06 14:14:22
Gilgamesh.Hunewearl said: »WoE Fudo @ 90cap
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 14:55:15
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »5TP from Saotome Domaru +2, right now it's 5 per hit of the weaponskill which is why 10 was being reported with Shoha, but that's being adjusted.
You sure?
I was told 10savetp from Fudo. But haven't seen proof either way.
80% sure. Will go check on the test server real quick.
Only gear = Masamune/Dracua Couse, Saotome Domaru +2 (where applicable), and Danzo sune-ate
5/5 Overwhelm, 5/5 Store TP
Tachi: Fudo
TP without Saotome Domaru: 15
TP with Saotome Domaru: 21
Tachi: Shoha
TP without Saotome Domaru: 16
TP with Saotome Domaru: 27
Penta Thrust
TP without Saotome Domaru: 23
TP with Saotome Domaru: 49
5 TP per hit of the weaponskill.
Random note, was having some amazing Shoha ACC issues. Probably just a placebo, but meh.
[+]
 Carbuncle.Wulfshadow
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 486
By Carbuncle.Wulfshadow 2012-01-06 15:21:30
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 15:29:16
Yes already mentioned that, just providing evidence that it is not currently 10 TP for a 1-hit WS like Fudo.
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-06 15:29:34
Carbuncle.Wulfshadow said: »
Never said 1savetp per merit, thats why it was debated.
5 savetp is kinda meh, 10 was awesome.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36553
By Asura.Ludoggy 2012-01-06 15:45:56
Valefor.Prothescar said: » Now go away, we're talking about important things. That 5savetp works on AoE weaponskills too.
Sonic thrust > a billion tp
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 16:15:56
We sure the gorget/belt are best still? I mean have there been a lot of tests done?
*fSTR is assuming that the mob you're fighting has 130 VIT.
Masamune 90, Gorget, Belt
114D and 177STR
114 + 150 + 12 = 276
276 * 2.5703125 = 709
Masamune 90, Ganesha mala, Beir belt +1
114 + 158 + 15 = 287
287 * 2.375 = 681
Masamune 90, Gorget, Beir belt +1
114 + 158 + 15 = 287
287 * 2.47265625 = 709
Nvm, belt+gorget and beir+gorget are about the same. It comes down to extra attack from STR vs. some conserve TP and presumably 10 ACC per hit. Ganesha's is only mentioned as to avoid confusion of some sort.
So essentially, you're usually best off with belt+gorget.
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 Leviathan.Snakeslice
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 169
By Leviathan.Snakeslice 2012-01-06 16:21:58
I did 542347 over 15 fights. 127373(23.49%) of the 542347 damage is melee damage.
SAM damage spread is roughly 20/80 (in this case, it was 23/77) Yay :D that about fits with my math for 2hits with 50% ODD spread.
Cerberus.Taint
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1514
By Cerberus.Taint 2012-01-06 16:33:47
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Valefor.Prothescar said: »*facepalm* A variable in an experiment that has no or little effect to provide control or is not there at all, which is actually another definition of the medical term "placebo". Valefor.Prothescar said: » Random note, was having some amazing Shoha ACC issues. Probably just a placebo, but meh. Ya, I get that proth, but given the context of this one statement, it mad no sense. I think that's what the other person was tryin to say. Just sayin' it was worded very poorly lol. Oh, well. Back to building my shoha set. We sure the gorget/belt are best still? I mean have there been a lot of tests done? It wasn't if you read it carefully, but whatever. *fSTR is assuming that the mob you're fighting has 130 VIT. Masamune 90, Gorget, Belt 114D and 177STR 114 + 150 + 12 = 276 276 * 2.5703125 = 709 Masamune 90, Ganesha mala, Beir belt +1 114 + 158 + 15 = 287 287 * 2.375 = 681 Masamune 90, Gorget, Beir belt +1 114 + 158 + 15 = 287 287 * 2.47265625 = 709 Nvm, belt+gorget and beir+gorget are about the same. It comes down to extra attack from STR vs. some conserve TP and presumably 10 ACC per hit. Ganesha's is only mentioned as to avoid confusion of some sort. So essentially, you're usually best off with belt+gorget.
I can't think of a single mob where SAMs fSTR won't be capped in their WS set. Redo those numbers with 226 STR (my set) and you'll see gorget/belt is best.
Edit: Slow internet at work! You must have corrected it right as I was posting.
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-06 16:53:43
226 STR how? Assuming your WS set is the same one that was posted a couple of pages back, with Hume STR you have 164STR in WS set, 179 with Braver's Drink. Elvaans don't have 47 more STR than Hume.
As for fSTR not being capped, most Voidwatch NMs. Preliminary testing on INT shows that they have rather high stats.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1304
By Odin.Dirtyfinger 2012-01-06 16:56:44
I'm not logged in but I'd be fairly close to that if you include Hasso and RCB.
Doing 2-3k Outside abbysea and 4-5k inside, Outside im testing inside Dynamis...
Current TP set.
And WS.
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