PLD Relic/mythic/emp Discussion

In your dreams, son.

you really should just stop now dude. that's like, 4th grade math and you wanna disagree with that.

/sigh

What really annoys me is that ppl try to argue with things that have been there for more than 5 years now and still think it all is so simple.

Surprise! It's not!

Seriously, read up on some stuff first before you come to any conclusions that imply that PLD has any actual value as a melee or a DD and then post your findings.

Haste and att do have an impact on your dmg and thus resulting in your accumulated enmity but it's really not all that much as the majority apparently believes to think it has.

Copying an Ochain-PLD with his haste set, doesn't mean that you will automatically have the same results for any other PLD out there.
If you make some testing which prove that +25 att actually do raise your dmg by a whole lot against something that is worth bringing a PLD to, namely higher tier VW NMs, then I will gladly accept this theory.
If that's not the case, however, please, for the love of god, try to think for yourself and not just copy and paste other ppl's thoughts and gearsets.

DD pld has 531 attack before food/buffs
586 with pizza+1
735 with berserk up(doable with ochain, probably aegis)

Assuming enlight is enough to keep your acc at a decent level:
665 with RCB
847 with berserk


I think 700-800 attack is pretty respectable, so is having around 600 for pld.

You wont have this up 100% of the time, but when you can, it contributes to more than turtling up 100% of the time does.

It is a respectable number, however, did you check how much more dmg you would take during that phase of having more att yourself?

As I said, it's only 1 side of the medal, always.

Show me where I have copy-pasted anything this entire discussion.

The damage formula is the same for all jobs.

You already said it yourself: Defense is near useless.

IIT: +Attack does nothing when it's low already

Almace 85, capped fSTR(14) for ease, 500 attack, 500 enemy defense, 5 cRatio. The other set you posted has 24 attack higher.

71D

With the turtle set-

500/500 - (0.025*5)*1.2

71*1.05 = 74DMG a hit


With the set with +24 attack-

524/500 - (0.025*5)*1.2

71 * 1.09 = 77 DMG a hit

It's a small difference but the gains will be higher considering I only used a cRatio of 5 levels, VWNM are going to be higher than that, the lower it drops, the more you gain per point. (Though to be fair the set you posted for DD is pretty lacking). Next time factor in the extra 7% DA. Anything as you say is "worth bring a PLD to" is pretty much going to be capped vs. your defense, popping berserk will have a minimal impact if anything. Caps are caps are caps. Nevermind a DD set allowing you to drop accuracy food in favor of +attack food, which is where the biggest bonuses come from.

Yes, Chersoshelm/creed body+2/creed legs+2/twilight torque/Dark ring = 28% pdt(with the ability to reduce magic by 17% should you be slow) which is more than your 20% pdt that you mentioned.

Didnt even sac any attack spots outside of neck/ring and with such sacrifices I gained more if I needed it, if not I would use an acc neck piece or Ftorque(situation varies).

Do you mean: pizza > berserk = 735
and: RCB > berserk = 857?

If so, yea, as I said, that is a respectable amount of att on PLD.
However, you would always have to justify using berserk by taking into account how much more dmg your would take compared to not using it.

I really don't want to be a *** about this but from experiences and numbers on paper, it clearly shows that you're still better off with using a tanking set.

If you use the same values I did, except for upgrading your dmg dealt numbers and dmg taken number from actual experience, then this might prove me wrong.

Seeing that, most of the time, PLD won't achieve and "seriouss" values for DDing though, I still have to keep my point (grammar?).

...This was your alternative to drinking, Darrka?

Well played.

Well, test it please, in order to tell if that actually helps a whole lot (regarding the DD-department).
I'm certain that more PDT along with some, or even more, haste will help yourself keeping hate more.
What I'm curious about though is if the added att does actually increase your offensive numbers by a lot.

From what? 531 to 857? It's all relative to enemy level and enemy defense.

DMG+fSTR*pDIF is damage per hit.

Ignoring fSTR since you probably won't be capping it. So 57DMG on Almace 85.

If we assume the enemy has 550 Defense, and is 5 levels higher than you.

531/550 = 0.96
Cratio is 0.025 per level difference, so 0.125 for 5 levels. That's 0.96 - 0.125 = 0.835*1.2 = 1.00. So damage/hit is 57*1 = 57/hit.

857/550 = 1.55 - 0.125 = 1.42 *1.2 = 1.70

57*1.7 = 96 damage/hit

(I can't remember if pdif is to one or two dp, so the 531 might be lower).


Boy do I want to.

Excalibur > Almace: VW

/thread

I know this set isn't a very good example, but is there really much room for improvement? lol

*fixed, wtf, pld can't use agasaya's

pld can't use that neck for starters.

orz

besides that, not really

Something I dug up in order to help you out a bit:

"So for example, if your ATK is 300 and the monster's DEF is 400, if the monster is at the same level as you in this example, your cRatio is .75, so you are in the middle range for pDIF(max), and in the first range for pDIF(min).
That means that your max pDIF and therefore your max damage will not be affected at all by adding more ATK, until you add 34 ATK, at which point each ATK you add will increase your pDIF according to 1.2xcRatio, so going from even 200 ATK to 333 ATK (an increase of 130 ATK!) will not change your max damage at all , while adding even 10 atk from 334 ATK to 344 ATK for example will increase your pDIF max again, from 1 to 1.03."

Source?

wat.
I totally don't get it >_>

This.
However, pDIF and cRatio aint news either, are they!?

lol, you're gonna quote genome? this has to be a joke.

I've been waiting to say it I really have but.

He's EU he is probably serious.

Bad joke.
by the way, Genome has some badass FFXI scenery pics. lol

Yes. What's funny about it? Saying there's no truth in it?

No, saying he probably doesn't understand mechanics anymore than you do.

I see. Well, I find that incredibly insulting for Genome, who has done a lot of work towards the things we do know today and even if he may not have discovered everything, I do think that ppl like him deserve a little more respect for their work.

But that's me only, of course.

And again, are you saying that there is no truth in what he did say, that there is no such thing as a pDIF or cRatio or that certain att values do have an impact and others don't?