Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Works out new shield block equation... And everyone talks about Pld not getting fencer.
Sorry ^^ I'm not mathy enough to check your work nor to do any tests to confirm it.
Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.
Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
Sorry ^^ I'm not mathy enough to check your work nor to do any tests to confirm it.
I'll look more into it then. If I get anything worth posting I'll make an item set and post it here.
Neo, I'm not really feeling up for working through that and running the numbers myself. But if you'd like I can post a bunch of my other tests here for you to run through that formula.
That would be great.
Things I need to nail down: exact base block rate by shield size; and shield skill divider variable by skill level.
Things I need to nail down: exact base block rate by shield size; and shield skill divider variable by skill level.
Here's something to start with. Mostly size 3 tests on 105 mobs with various skill. But also a set of 106~109 tests on Ochain, Aegis, and pre-ilvl keledar. all with 432 skill.
I still have a lot of Ochian/Aegis data, but I'd think it'd be best to figure out normal types like size 3 first. then tackle specials.
Code
432 skill MobLVL---106-----107-----108-----109 Ochain 98.57 97.23 94.96 93.66 Aegis 40.87 40.38 38.62 39.08 Killedar35.18 34.58 33.19 28.73 Hits Ochain 3088 3074 3076 3076 Aegis 3070 3459 3407 3165 Killedar 4548 4054 3094 3692 105 mobs Steadfast Hits 3049 Skill 442 For some reason, I tested this skill value twice. Block% 38.4 Hits 14231 I, uh. Must have gone to bed at this point. <,< Skill 442 Block% 38.5 Hits 2992 Skill 448 Block% 42.07 Hits 1570 Skill 496 Block% 48.15 Hits 3025 Skill 517 Block% 52.09 Hits 1581 Skill 539 Block% 58.88 Adamas Hits 3180 Skill 432 Block% 36.13 Hits 3289 Skill 442 Block% 39.19 Killedar Hits 3520 Skill 532 Block% 60.82 Hits 1573 iirc, spellcast was broken on the test server at the time of this and the following test. Sucked. Thus the lower smple size. Skill 647 Block% 84.23 Hits 1648 Skill 703 Block% 94.17 Aegis 95 Hits 1528 Skill 432 Block% 42.27 Hits 3144 Skill 442 Block% 45.7
I still have a lot of Ochian/Aegis data, but I'd think it'd be best to figure out normal types like size 3 first. then tackle specials.
Thanx man. I'll take a look at it after my nieces leave :D.
Edit: what's the sample size here, need to know my expected error rate.
Edit: what's the sample size here, need to know my expected error rate.
Post edited with the number of total hits per test.
Plugging in all your tests into the new formula:
Basically: It works!
The below level mobs act as expected if you take out the level correction part of the equation as I hypothesized, and the block rate increases as expected with the suggested variables.
Looks like our new Shield Block % formula is:
Shield Block Rate = Base_Block_Rate + [((Shield Skill – Base_Skill)/SkillDivider) – LevelCorrectionFactor]
Note: The error rate is outside the expected deviation margin, which means we're still off a bit on some numbers (most likely shield skill divider, which likely changes based on skill level).
This also means Ochain's special properties is basically just a hidden Shield Skill + 300.
Basically: It works!
The below level mobs act as expected if you take out the level correction part of the equation as I hypothesized, and the block rate increases as expected with the suggested variables.
Looks like our new Shield Block % formula is:
Shield Block Rate = Base_Block_Rate + [((Shield Skill – Base_Skill)/SkillDivider) – LevelCorrectionFactor]
Note: The error rate is outside the expected deviation margin, which means we're still off a bit on some numbers (most likely shield skill divider, which likely changes based on skill level).
This also means Ochain's special properties is basically just a hidden Shield Skill + 300.
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
I'd stick with the current best DOT set Cliamain, but swap out Ares+1 Hands/Legs for Buremate hands and maybe legs for other iLvL alternatives.
What kinda augs am I looking for Suji? To combo them to do i just use legs and hands?
Phoenix.Cliamain said: »
What kinda augs am I looking for Suji? To combo them to do i just use legs and hands?
What about the Latent on Aiwon gauntlets. If the mob is looking at you and you have on ochain the -5 mp per tick worth picking up the 5% DA?
Doesn't look like much is being lost.
Doesn't look like much is being lost.
You'll drop MP faster than you realize and only for a marginal benefit. If you're DD tanking, I'd stick with the Cizin combo, or Buremate/Cizen depending on your accuracy.
Can still stick with it but 5% DA is still pretty nice from just one slot. Can't you also set a rule in spellcast that when you're above whatever percent of mp(say 50%) it drops you in them and if you drop below that it'll change you in to Buremate?
I've seen it done with dark knight regen/refresh rules for idle sets.
I've seen it done with dark knight regen/refresh rules for idle sets.
Ya that should be pretty easy to code. But again, would only be useful when you're not taking physical damage, and when you're capped on accuracy (two situations not likely to occur on Paladin.)
Would you say the same thing if the gauntlets weren't latent-activated? If that were the case, they'd be 5 mil+. There are a lot of cases where, proper rules to back them up, those would seem really attractive.
If they weren't latent activated, they'd have a place in the Pld pure dd capped accuracy set. Given the latent however, I wouldn't bother carrying them around. But do what you want with your toon. The code to swap them in is easy enough to write.
Going to be working on updating the guide again to include:
New shield skill equation.
Updated sets to include Revenant+1 sets.
Added high/low accuracy TP sets.
Cure sets (with integrated fast cast, HP+, and enmity, while maintaining -DT).
Updated ilvl REMS.
Anything else I'm missing?
New shield skill equation.
Updated sets to include Revenant+1 sets.
Added high/low accuracy TP sets.
Cure sets (with integrated fast cast, HP+, and enmity, while maintaining -DT).
Updated ilvl REMS.
Anything else I'm missing?
[+]
Phoenix.Neosutrax said: »
Going to be working on updating the guide again to include:
New shield skill equation.
Updated sets to include Revenant+1 sets.
Added high/low accuracy TP sets.
Cure sets (with integrated fast cast, HP+, and enmity, while maintaining -DT).
Updated ilvl REMS.
Anything else I'm missing?
New shield skill equation.
Updated sets to include Revenant+1 sets.
Added high/low accuracy TP sets.
Cure sets (with integrated fast cast, HP+, and enmity, while maintaining -DT).
Updated ilvl REMS.
Anything else I'm missing?
Looks like you covered everything.
Shield bash set maybe?
Ok after dicking around with the DPS spreadsheet and playing with various sets, here's what I have for proposed sets. Intelligent feedback is appreciated:
Pld Max Accuracy:
ItemSet 318004 - +126 accuracy
Pld General TP:
ItemSet 318005 - Cizin augmented with DA+2
Pld DD/-DT hybrid, accuracy focus:
ItemSet 318006 - 40% PDT, 27% -DT. +78 accuracy.
Pld DT:
ItemSet 314919
And here's the cure sets I've been working on. The intent is to allow you to gain ~400 hp in your cure4s for the purpose of cure cheats, while maximizing cure potency+ and enmity in addition to not taking away too much DT.
Pld Cure Precast:
ItemSet 318008 - capped haste, 29% FC, 35% PDT, 15%DT
Pld Cure Midcast: (Hp up, enmity):
ItemSet 318009 - 438 hp more than precast set, Cure potency +9%, cure potency received +22%, enmity +30
Obviously there are a multitude of combinations one could use to reach the desired results. You'll most likely also want 2 Pld Cure Midcast sets, one that you use when you're not taking damage (/nin or not the mob's target), and one you'll use when you are taking damage and can't afford to sacrifice that much -DT during your cures.
Pld Max Accuracy:
ItemSet 318004 - +126 accuracy
Pld General TP:
ItemSet 318005 - Cizin augmented with DA+2
Pld DD/-DT hybrid, accuracy focus:
ItemSet 318006 - 40% PDT, 27% -DT. +78 accuracy.
Pld DT:
ItemSet 314919
And here's the cure sets I've been working on. The intent is to allow you to gain ~400 hp in your cure4s for the purpose of cure cheats, while maximizing cure potency+ and enmity in addition to not taking away too much DT.
Pld Cure Precast:
ItemSet 318008 - capped haste, 29% FC, 35% PDT, 15%DT
Pld Cure Midcast: (Hp up, enmity):
ItemSet 318009 - 438 hp more than precast set, Cure potency +9%, cure potency received +22%, enmity +30
Obviously there are a multitude of combinations one could use to reach the desired results. You'll most likely also want 2 Pld Cure Midcast sets, one that you use when you're not taking damage (/nin or not the mob's target), and one you'll use when you are taking damage and can't afford to sacrifice that much -DT during your cures.
If you're using a cure cheat and not scared of dying, you're going to want some HP- and HP avoidance in your precast. Cure 4 can break 700 these days, between the gear available and the healing skill patch, may as well use cure 3 with only a difference of 438.
ItemSet 315907
-132 hp, same fast cast, 28 pdt(haste does nothing on precast, not sure why you listed it?)
ItemSet 316024
+544 hp, 56 enm, 24 cure potency, 27 cure received(obviously use discretion when sword swapping)
ItemSet 315907
-132 hp, same fast cast, 28 pdt(haste does nothing on precast, not sure why you listed it?)
ItemSet 316024
+544 hp, 56 enm, 24 cure potency, 27 cure received(obviously use discretion when sword swapping)
[+]
Good recommendations. Though I can't picture many situations where I'd sword swap from Burtgang/other alternatives. And I forgot about Fierabra's Mantle lol.
I'm hesitant though to drop that much HP in the precast. I was wanting to gear a cure-cheat to minimize loss of HP and damage during the swap. I'll take a look at some other alternatives to add more HP in the midcast setup.
I'm hesitant though to drop that much HP in the precast. I was wanting to gear a cure-cheat to minimize loss of HP and damage during the swap. I'll take a look at some other alternatives to add more HP in the midcast setup.
Well, there aren't many things that would one shot a non-taru PLD in that precast setup. Keep in mind with gearswap/ashitacast you're only sitting in precast gear for .3-.5s, and packets are sequenced such that you have essentially 0 chance of meleeing in your precast/midcast gear. So, at most you're getting hit by 1 melee round OR 1 WS and you still have ochain on. The midcast gear is much sturdier, and shouldn't be any concern: I've never died using my cure swap. You can even set up your gear to only put on the hp- pieces if you're above X hp.
True, but the mobs that you'd actually need a cureswap/cheat are the ones that pose the greatest risk of "f*ck you" moves. Additionally, as we move to more content like progressive difficulty BC fights (AAs for example), we're seeing more need for Aegis tanking (for at least part of the fights), which precludes the 100% block rate of Ochain.
You also have to consider taking damage during that pre-cast portion with the reduced HP, which means the damage taken is a larger % of your HP and thus a larger amount of enmity lost.
You also have to consider taking damage during that pre-cast portion with the reduced HP, which means the damage taken is a larger % of your HP and thus a larger amount of enmity lost.
The things you're talking about are primarily playstyle, in my opinion. A smart PLD would start their cure immediately after a mob swings(by the time your log shows mob hitting, it would have already started a tp if that hit was going to trigger it.. so you have 0 risk of being WSed either unless someone else hits it during that .5s) and use their own discretion with shields.
The only mobs I can think of that I keep aegis on for are Ark Angel MR <25% and WKR. Neither has anything physical that could approach one shot territory. AA Hume, it's only used from ~6% until Mijin, and you can overlap sentinel/reprisal with it since it's such a short period. AA Taru, aegis for spells and idle in ochain.
You're gaining a pretty significant amount of hate by using an optimized cure swap.. you lose quite a bit of enmity and potency with most HP pieces.
The only mobs I can think of that I keep aegis on for are Ark Angel MR <25% and WKR. Neither has anything physical that could approach one shot territory. AA Hume, it's only used from ~6% until Mijin, and you can overlap sentinel/reprisal with it since it's such a short period. AA Taru, aegis for spells and idle in ochain.
You're gaining a pretty significant amount of hate by using an optimized cure swap.. you lose quite a bit of enmity and potency with most HP pieces.
[+]
I'll work through the enmity equations tomorrow and see how much damage you would have to take to lose any enmity gains you would have acquired via using more enmity in those spots instead of +HP. Perhaps you're right. In realistic situations however, it's not always easy to time your cures (needed cures and cheat cures) based on expected mob WS.
Thanx for your input, you're likely right :P. Give me some time to work through some other options and math before I agree completely though (I'm stubborn :D).
Thanx for your input, you're likely right :P. Give me some time to work through some other options and math before I agree completely though (I'm stubborn :D).
I was going to run through some cure enmity numbers myself, but I can't seem to find the lvl 99 CE modifier for cures. Kaeko's site is way outta date.
I vaguely recall testing the CE mod at some lvl, but that might have been 90 or 95...
I vaguely recall testing the CE mod at some lvl, but that might have been 90 or 95...
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
If you're using a cure cheat and not scared of dying, you're going to want some HP- and HP avoidance in your precast. Cure 4 can break 700 these days, between the gear available and the healing skill patch, may as well use cure 3 with only a difference of 438.
ItemSet 315907
-132 hp, same fast cast, 28 pdt(haste does nothing on precast, not sure why you listed it?)
ItemSet 316024
+544 hp, 56 enm, 24 cure potency, 27 cure received(obviously use discretion when sword swapping)
ItemSet 315907
-132 hp, same fast cast, 28 pdt(haste does nothing on precast, not sure why you listed it?)
ItemSet 316024
+544 hp, 56 enm, 24 cure potency, 27 cure received(obviously use discretion when sword swapping)
Ah didn't even know that cape existed lol.
im surprised Enif beats Pak +1, especially in a acc set since Pak has more acc
amadis said: »
im surprised Enif beats Pak +1, especially in a acc set since Pak has more acc
I have it winning in both capped and uncapped accuracy situations, based on the DPS spreadsheet.
https://docs.google.com/a/email.arizona.edu/file/d/0B0A0wGYYRRdaRnMtRTlXTUhVcm8/edit
The spreadsheet is missing a few pieces, but you can fill in alternative gear/buffs and compare them for yourself.
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