Haste Vs. Accuracy Endgame

Cause reasoning is hard.

I guess we'll find out when tigerwoods is done with his math, huh?

They are not always better though. On ws for one, if you can't break that new WSC or FSTR those heca+1 aren't doing anything. Because every single fragment of the ws damage formula is floored 4127364 times before the final number. And not getting a new WSC or FSTR tier will happen more often than not.

I don't know how much of a waste of time cobra is. I never bothered doing anything on wotg. But i don't see ASA as a waste of time. One can complete an addon in one afternoon. How could this be a waste of time? If you later don't need it as tp pants, just spend an extra hour to get something else...Getting homam legs, as easy as it is nowadays, can still take over a month.

So i have to completely agree with Flippant and others on this topic since page 3. If you bother with hqing, which is itself a marginal increase, why not use a marginally better dagger combo?

Are you really going to sit here and argue technicalities with me?

Do you want me to reword it? Fine.

Because they're always equal to or better than their NQ variant.

And as far as I know, Flippant's only made 2 posts in this thread. Back in page 3, Virtuosus was still putting words in my mouth and shoot off meme's.

You did not pick another mob, so using colibri again.
The quoted is separate math, just to show that Blau/Sirocco is actually better DoT than Pharp/Blau, when you said they were equal. I'm still going to use your original value of 18% increase in dmg/hit vs 18% increase in attack speed though, which is why the above is quoted and not apart of the below figure.


To pick up where we left off.

For WS, I'll use the same 100 dex I used last time, STR is set to 111. 12 fstr for Pharp, 10 fstr for blau.

Pharp: 49 DMG
Blau: 43 DMG
Sirocco: 36 DMG

149 + 49 + 49 + 49 + 49 + 43 (offhand hit) = 388 DMG
vs
143 + 43 + 43 + 43 + 43 + 36 (offhand hit) = 351 DMG

388/351 = 1.105413105 = 10.5413105% increase in direct WS damage.

So, according to your earlier math, the two combos are equal in the DoT department.

Pharp/Blau WS' 10.5413105% harder.

I can't compare speed since you did not give me a set, so I can conclude this math with

If Blau/Sirocco (which I can guarantee you would at least minimally be btw) WS 10.54131051% more often or more than Pharp/Blau, then Blau/Sirocco wins

yeah they are equal or better, but that's not my point. My point is the marginal increase part. I mean going from nq to hq is like getting 1% better, if that much. Let's say if you SA in 160 base damage you will SA in 161 by adding an hq piece. Don't you agree that it's a marginal increase? It's so small that human error would make nq better if you took too long to position for SA or something on this line. Sure stacking HQ pieces will give you more edge, but this edge is still marginal.

Why Flippant only posting 2 times in this thread has to do with anything? My last comment on my previous post i just wanted to summarize what everyone said and Flippant did a very nice conclusion. You bashed him. His point is still very much valid and i agree with him.

Just stack a bunch of attk + gear and the coolest looking dagger and your pwnage will be legendary

So.

You didn't know that equal haste will affect two different pairs of weapons equally?

I was wondering why you thought I needed to give you a set, since it really doesn't matter at all.

Here's how you do what you're looking to do. You calculate TP gain per hit for each pair of dagger and then you compare them once you figure out how much TP you gain over a certain period of time. Haste doesn't matter because you're changing both values by the same ratio.

That last post must have been hard for you to make, after going on and on about how sure you were that Blau/Sirocco was clearly better, and then come to an inconclusive conclusion.

By the way, what's 37 * .271? What's 33 * .30?

Reason I ask is because if your pDIF falls between .27 and .30(as it often does against bigger stuff), the blau will do 0 damage where the p.harpe will do 1 damage. Realistically though, this doesn't contribute much to your overall DoT, but it does help your TP gain. Do you mind factoring that into your calculations as well? Thanks dear.

He probably means for stuff like DW mirke and suppa. Cause +DW gear will boost the lowest delay combo more.

Whose making assumptions now? It was actually for the amount of store tp in each and AVERAGE number of attack rounds to 100 tp.
And when I don't have the sets of gear, I don't know how much tp you gain over time on average.

Not at all, it's inconclusive because you didn't do what I asked you to and give me two sets to compare.


Do it yourself. Attack is going to be a whole new game and if you don't give me exact sets, then I cannot calculate your exact PDIF, since it's dependent on your attack.

Again, make sets or shut up. You've contributed nothing aside from saying they are equal, which they are not.

Err 10~ and 9~ respectively? I don't get your point.

Blau will hit for 0 when pdif is < 0.0319 with minimum fSTR. This is not going to happen often...

Or am I missing something?

Are you sure you meant Flippant? All he did was come in, said I claimed you shouldn't use marginally better gear, then leave. Unless I'm mistaken, he was the first to randomly throw out that point at me.

I don't believe he added anything new to the table.

Yeah, some things are better than the decent items I mentioned, sure. I've already said that a number of times. But the point I'm supposedly failing at convoying is that are they really worth spending the time getting when you're going to just replace them anyways.

Though ultimately, I don't believe 80% of this thread is any more than people being butt hurt that I called them gimp for their gear selection, which isn't too uncommon in this game to begin with. Nothing more than arguing with an idiot who thinks a spider torque is worthwhile purchase.

Spider torque comment eh?

This was mentioned in another thread about people playing the game for "Fun".
Ihina, you sir/madam fall into the tiny 1% of players who look down on people because they have inferior equipment. You obviously do not care if the equipment makes -sense-, only that it is not the best possible and thus: Inferior and stupid.

While this is an opinion you have, and you are entitled it, I'd just like to say something about it.

Be thankful for the friends you have. With that attitude, I don't see you making many more.

Go Aiyanacat!

Nothing wrong with Spider Torque.

What were we discussing again?

AF pants. And this is now the RDM forum.

Yes yes nothing like cats on rdm af pants

I just wanted to tack on more things for tigerwoods to do. You know the old saying about how it's so cute to watch people try so hard.

Oh, and I meant to add on an extra decimal place so it would come out as 1 and .9 rather than 10 and 9.

Store TP effects them equally also, k. As far as DA/TA goes, I don't know bro. DA/TA also effects both sets equally. DW, as previously mentioned, are the supp earring and sometimes the MW body. Do you mind doing calculations for both(with and without the MK body)?

Hush you, you're forgetting your place. You have everything you need, you just want me to spell it out for you. Now get back to work and pump out those numbers.

Oh hell with it.

Like previously stated in the thread, there is no x-hit build for THF. TP that you gain from being hit aside, it depends on what WS you're using and how much TP return your WS gives you.

Good luck btw. Alla people are still arguing what's the best way to calculate WS frequency for THF to this day. Also, don't forget those small, yet important, times when your p.harpe will do 1 damage and your blau will do 0. And also when your blau(off hand) will do 1 damage and your sirocco will do 0 damage. That could mean the difference between 0tp for that round, or 5tp or 10tp.


Enjoy being gimp. If wanting and expecting good gear will turn away certain people, then it's better off I don't become acquainted with them. There are more than enough people who value and can respect other people for the hard work and dedicated the put into their character. You'll see that when you hit endgame.

By the way, the number is much, much higher than 1%. Pretty sure my LS alone has almost 1% of players on the server. We don't break our backs several times a week to idle in spider torques. Fun is fun, sure, but being good at this game while having fun is also pretty fun. Should look into it.

While you're calculating WS frequency, don't forget wasted tp from DA/TA. To simplify things, let's completely ignore the TP gained from the mobs attacking you/using AoE.

Or do you still want me to name you a mob? If you wish, do gears in salvage. They have some nice AoEs. I can't remember exactly the TP you gain from being by their AoE....i think it's 2. Factor in the amount of TP you're giving the gear as well as the rest of your party members and give a rough estimate of how often it'll use a TP move.

Remember, mobs below 25% til to shoot off WSs as soon as they hit 100% tp. Above 75%, they tend to sit on their TP here and there.

Or we can completely forget about it, it's really up to you. Keep pumping out those numbers!

Wrong, since the delays are different, the amount of stp they'd need to save a hit on average will be different.


you officially have nothing left to add to this. I've posted my numbers. Post yours. If not, I'll do what you accuse me of so much and make an assumption, that of which your forfeit.

Also, lol at "try so hard". Maybe Algebra is out of your brain's comprehension, but it's not so tough for anyone whose passed middle school

The only thing he did was point the contradiction in not using a marginally better combo (blau/sk) but use a marginally better armor (hq piece). For one that doesn't like ***thrown in your mouth you sure like to throw ***on other ppls.

You might think pharpe combo is better. That at least erases the contradiction. Contradictions were part of this topic not so long ago. Now you just need some enlightment on blau/sk ways~

You can, I've done quite enough. You're so knowledgeable, go for it, post your results here and prove mine wrong.
Sure, but don't take my quote half heartily. I said exact mob and its exact stats. You've provided nothing in terms of stats.

You lost a long time ago, now you just won't admit defeat and are trying to drag it out as long as possible. Again, do it yourself. I've shown all the work I've needed to.

In the end, your thf sucks and you are still a moron.

Part of me agrees with you here. Hard work put in to a character to have the best possible equipment is rather satisfying when you look back on it. It is fun.

However, most "Endgame" on FFXI is filled with anything BUT people who put that type of dedication into their character. You can honestly tell me that every single person in your entire LS has the best gear attainable with gil and through drops? At that point, why are you still playing? In an earlier post, you said you were working on a Mandau. Would you care if I looked down on you, and called you a stupid player because I have a relic and you do not?

By the way. Spider torque = Amemet+1 on the gimp scale, yet you personally stated earlier that someone should get an Amemet+1. Why the difference?

1% was a fairly arbitrary number posted by another person in a different thread. The point is "very small amount".

Lol, funny how he calls spider torque gimp but uses Pharp

Gotta have them epeen WS numbers Tiger. That's how people know you're good without a parser.

Wrong, because TP return on WSs is inconsistent. I bet you want to ask me what are the possible TP returns from the various WS for each pair of dagger at each value of Store TP. I can tell you, but what's the fun in that. You can use basic fundamentals to figure it out. It's not hard, just plug it into the forumla on FFXIwiki and apply basic knowledge of the game mechanics. Or do you want me to do that for you too?

Unless you want to do the calculations from starting at 0tp every time, for some reason.

And you're right. I don't have anything to add. There is nothing for me to add. All I'm doing is sitting here, watching you try oh-so-hard to insult me. Go ahead, insult my gear choice, insult my albegra(lol), lets see how far you can go.

I have no reason to defend myself, nor do I feel the need to. You're the one getting on my case remember? lolpharpe, lolcbelt. So you do it. As I recall, your results were conclusively since you couldn't figure out TP gain and WS frequency. Need i remind you, you already have all the information you need.

Ok the gear is xx str....and yy dex. This stuff sure has a lot to do with your TP gain.


I haven't lost anything since we're not arguing about anything. I'm just sitting here watching you bash me. You want me to what? Defend myself? Against you? lolno.

In the end, you've realized that I'm playing at you like a little puppet, so you've gone and completely ignored the rule of the burden of proof and outright said I'm a bad player because of two gear choices you don't agree with(that you can't prove!) when you don't know anything about my play style, my level of experience in the game nor my goals and expectations!

So what are you going to do now? Continue pumping out numbers or just sit there, throwing out baseless insults at me? It's really up to you.

You're right about one thing though. I am dragging this out. This started as a 'Haste vs Acc' gear thread, and you derailed it into a 'LOL you use p.harpe!' thread. And then you can't follow through and back up your claim because it's just too hard! -sadface-

Bit off more than you can chew this time, huh? Cuss at me a few more times, maybe that'll change things.


So far, so good.

Of course not. Perfection is not an expectation, it's a goal(that no one expects you to reach).

Of course not. And of course, you can't compare a spider torque and a Mandau. There's a pretty huge gap between the Mandau with the next thing down, and between the spider torque and an enfeebling torque. Your gap between the two sets of items are too bloated.

I would say they're not on equal scale, though pretty similar. Enfeebling torques are 800k on my server, which is what a rdm should aim for. Cuchulain's mantle is 3m on my server, which is a bit further of a stretch. Sure, gil is no excuse, but there's a pretty big difference between being content with a Spider torque and being content with an Amemet mantle+1

I'm going to ignore the fact that you're just guessing here, going off something that you hear from another person that was probably just guessing too.

Even though there's probably less than half of the population in endgame(maybe), there always will be more people around than you'll ever meet. That said, don't worry about me running short on friends. I have enough of them and I hardly know 10% of the population.

The correct way to do it would be to find your average tp return and work from that, so again, you're wrong. Even if you're not going to go out of your way to calculate it for each individual situation and average it out, they're still not effected the same, sorry.
I've done a fair job of it already :)
I already did the math on the other stuff, too. And nah, I knew what you were doing, you were never in control. I let it be dragged out as long as I wanted it to. Wanted everyone to see here how much of an idiot you are and how little you truly know, so next time you try to give advice, they'll know you to be full of ***. Once I felt I accomplished that, I stopped giving math responses. I don't need to do anymore.

QFT

Also, multi-quotes make my head hurt. Therefore, this whole thread is nothing but a headache.


I must be crazy to try and follow this.

While I feel this is a fair arguement to throw back at me, I seem to have misrepresented my arguement. Let me try again.

Enfeebling torques are 800k, Spider torques are 100-150k~. The difference is around 700k at most.
Amemet+1 is currently 140k while Forager's is currently only 200k. The difference here is 60k.

I am also assuming that you will be keeping the Amemet+1/Forager's(And maybe eventually Cerb+1) for situations where it may be better than Chuch Mantle for whatever reason on whatever job. Whether that be TP or WS, or even augmenting with +6acc(I've seen it).

Please explain the difference between 1STR and 2 Enfeebling skill when it comes to value on the gimp scale.