Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

So ruthless strike is a rudra's storm clone. When the weaponskill update first came out in 2014 rudra's storm was originally scaled to 19.5 fTP at 3k, but they had to cut it back to its current 13 fTP because that was too powerful. Rudra's has an 80% dex mod though, so if ruthless strike's mods equate to a total of 60% stats then that lines the two weaponskills up to be roughly the same. I don't know..... Mpu gandring just looks like Twashtar 2.0 to me. The light skillchain property is the only thing that really set the two apart from what I can see. The aftermath too obviously but, honestly, that's not a big deal in my book.

I was fumbling around between new and old macro palettes a lot.

Hindsight I should have taken the time to safely dump a rudra's for comparison on plovid but I didn't think about it due to being so excited and eager with big buffs and new toy after Simon had me poking acuexes in bad gear for ~45 minutes xD

Also perhaps relevant, numbers on Ghatjot were using Rudra's PDL variant, expected gear + Gleti body and Maculele earring.

I don't know about "we", but I am completely confident in my statement that the majority of people following this thread just want testing done by those who already made the choice so they can avoid making one til the meta is established. FOMO is stronk, my friend, and there's a lot more people who care about "teh best" vs. "what's best for them".

I agree, and it's pretty much been the same for all ultimate weps. Hopefully people dont see a few select few cherry picked numbers and make a 1m gali decision they come to regret! Still, at attack cap, known gear and TP values, you can still get a feel for how they weapons will perform vs other options in the same scenario.

I also agree with the part about enjoying this early insight for what it is - I'm actually enjoying this period of limited knowledge and getting a taste of the weapon potential - Speaking of which, where are the bow numbers?!

Yeah it doesnt make a difference... apart from the fact merciless strike sounded cool, and ruthless stroke sounds like something on the menu at a low budget massage parlour

:P truth is I've only done some messing around on junk mobs w/ some trusts, nothing worth sharing at this point.

Thanks Skald! And Simon for some early math.

I actually think this looks pretty solid. Naegling was always going to be a competitor for the one-handers, but piercing (especially for RDM rocking Mandau until now), PDL aftermath built in and 3 step light with itself is still a significant upgrade. I want one.. and having four jobs on it is very nice despite it being more useful for some jobs on it than others.

Stage 3 is every weapon now has a Savage Blade with PDL built in. In places where there is a WS wall and you have a BRD and COR doing Savage Blade, because duh, then you get significantly less penalty and their SBs are going to actually work in your favor. That's as fixed as Naegling will ever get.

Most have extra SC properties that jobs don't have strong versions of or easy access to. That's generically good unless you're the reason why people only SB regardless of content. They even made easy 3 steps which means maybe people will figure out how level 1 SC properties work without having to be told...again...and again.

I will be completely shocked if there is no hidden effects on stage 4 or 5. Angry in fact. My personal hope is they just copy the idea of the Coruscanti and have a chance on the first hit of a WS or an attack round to maximize Attack/Defense ratio. Even if they don't they'll still have gross stats. Prime+ Ikenga's Axe is 25% crit rate just counting the weapons, prime+ Gleti's knife is 12% Triple attack. The only weapon I think looks sketchy is the sword, everything else looks like your favorite job would love to have one at stage 5 if someone just handed it to you.

Lastly, if you don't want to 'gamble' on which weapon is best the shield and horn are both clearly good even at stage 3.


Not just a normal stroke, but a ruthless one.

It is indeed pretty hard not to hold these WS's up against Savage Blade, it's a sad benchmark that our Naegling jobs suffer. While I play the 4 jobs on Mpu with RDM and BRD being very close to my heart my choice was immediate and all about DNC so Savage Blade don't mean no thing to me. I'm just thrilled to be getting a new option with good access to light.

Were all your ws done with lvl 1 aftermath? Assume no aria song buff? 30% PDL in gear? (Gleti, +2 neck, +1 earring, crep pebble?)

Skillchain options helps sell it for sure. Worthwhile pick given the jobs you play.

lv3, no Aria, 27pdl, Bolster, Soul Voice HM+Minx3+Herc, crooked 4 Chaos, DiaIII, lv10 Box.

Was kind of hoping it was lvl 1 aftermath to be honest, seems to be a sizeable difference in the power between the 2h WS and the 1h WS for some reason.

I assume by SE's design but why they chose to do that I couldn't guess.

I noticed that as well. Mpu Gandring really doesn't feel much different from twashtar to me right now. I'm not even sure if it's stronger. The light property sets it apart sure, but the power level is pretty identical. The 2 handed weapons on the other hand are clearly better than our existing options. S-E DID say that they aimed to make the primes on a comparable footing to existing remas so we wouldn't feel like we were required to have one over another, but I'm seeing a bit of disparity between a few of the weapon types here. I really like the looks of the great axe, scythe, and great sword. All the 2 handers look really solid actually. The 1 handed weapons look a bit weaker in comparison.

It's still early though and as a few people have mentioned, we have no way to know if stage 4 or 5 will have hidden effects or not. The primes will be a grey area for months so we may as well enjoy the speculation while it lasts. It kind of sucks that every 1 handed weapon is probably going to be weighted against naegling in some fashion though, but that's been going on for half a decade now so it's nothing new. Has there been any data on the H2H by chance? I don't recall seeing anything on the fisticuffs yet. I'm curious to know what they have to offer.

Haven't seen any h2h related info yet nor anyone mentioning that they are working on it, given how little play the job seems to see overall these days let alone in sortie, It will prob be one of the last we hear about.

I'm sure one of the die hard pups is working on it.

MNK is really good in Sortie, just hardly used. Impetus and Footwork are up for every NM and you can really slow TP feed with Penance and Shijin Spiral.

H2H is on my short list for a Prime but I'm saving up 3.5mil+ Galli before picking.

Mnk is top DD since H2H WS rework and it haven't changed since then. It haven't been used, because last end game event - Odyssey, was highly damage type dependent. From all A3 only Ngai takes blunt damage and for segment farming you need at least two types and MNK only really has blunt. In Sortie its back to shattering bones though.

EDIT:

From today 3box MNK+BRD+COR Sylvie+Mon+King

5 sv songs
Baniak uses Asuran Fists. Dhartok takes 20069 points of damage.
Baniak uses Tornado Kick. Dhartok takes 80304 points of damage.
Skillchain: Fusion. Dhartok takes 48338 points of damage.
Baniak uses Dragon Kick. Dhartok takes 69241 points of damage.
Skillchain: Light. Dhartok takes 99999 points of damage.
Baniak uses Victory Smite. Dhartok takes 40433 points of damage.
Skillchain: Radiance. Dhartok takes 99999 points of damage.

4 regular songs
Baniak uses Asuran Fists. Ghatjot takes 20963 points of damage.
Baniak uses Tornado Kick. Ghatjot takes 44906 points of damage.
Skillchain: Fusion. Ghatjot takes 26135 points of damage.
Baniak uses Dragon Kick. Ghatjot takes 58024 points of damage.
Skillchain: Light. Ghatjot takes 99999 points of damage.
Baniak uses Victory Smite. Ghatjot takes 59164 points of damage.
Skillchain: Radiance. Ghatjot takes 99999 points of damage.

Other day:
[Baniak] 70968 Victory Smite Dhartok
[Baniak] 97712 Dragon Kick Dhartok

As much as the Dagger is for making easy 3 step Light, it's also for making longer, stacked SCs. Stroke > stroke > evis > stroke > rudras > evis > rudras is a 7 step double dark SC. 5 steps are rudras or the equivalent in stroke and only 2 are Evisceration. Anything that takes SC damage would be obliterated by a DNC.

Having a 2nd Rudras is not redundant and pointless, it's luxurious.

Did a quick prime staff stage 3 testing on apex cogs as free nuke blm.

Tried opashoro + enki or opa + khonsu vs bunzi + ammu.

Not once did opa beat the bunzi + ammu combo in terms of free nuke.

Fire 1
Bunzi 7746
Opa 7720


Did a usual run with the static as the blm and while using Oshala 2kAM and 1kAM on bosses, still fell short of the total overall boss damage compared to Bunzi. (We were gunning for 8 boss clear so I didn't have the luxury of making sure I had 3kAM.)

Could the 3k aftermath beat the damage vs using Bunzi? Maybe. But definitely not 1k or 2k AM.

Could the 4th stage beat Bunzi? It hope so and can't see why it shouldn't.

But as of right now, and for my blm anyway, I should have just waited and held on to my muffins or got the Duban instead.

You're using Godhands there (Radiance), yeah? What do people think about Godhands versus Verethragna for Sortie purposes?

Godhands are better with Footwork up and solo skillchain. Usually boss is dead before Footwork is off,

Aftermath information:

Tests done by shooting with capped attack as outlined earlier in the thread.

1000tp: 2% PDL for 60s
2000tp: 5% PDL for 120s
3000tp: 8% PDL for 180s

Scales between each breakpoint like Mythic AM. E.x.: 1611tp produced a 3% PDL aftermath.

Honestly expected it to be more than a single piece of gear worth(at Lvl.3 at least).

Thanks for doing the tests.

I guess I should also say that this is for a 1h axe so theoretically 2h weapons could have a stronger aftermath. I'm not saying that they do or that I have any reason to suspect that they do. It's just a possibility.

So did you test with BST using an Ullr or something?

Have you tested the axe's WS much yet?

What setup are you putting it in with? Because I'm gonna be honest, I don't see being able to replace the DRK or WAR at all right now in the 8 boss run setup for melee. Maybe I'm wrong, and I would love to see a video of a group doing it, but I just can't imagine. Nothing against MNK, the current meta is just very, very rigid.

I'm glad that's what I made. I've been full timing Duban since I've got it and it's been as close to perfect as possible for every situation. From seg farms to v25 T3s, even tho Aegis has technically more Magic Damage II- taken the Duban has been holding up just as strong if not better imo on T3s.

Why? Soul Enslavement isnt required. It just helps. I guess what could be helpful and make MNK works much better, would be getting Stage III and kill F by doing Darkness skillchain with WAR MaruKala>ImpulseDrive (RDM magic burst then and COR white damage with Armageddon). Its cleaner and still very fast.

So you're doing 8/8 with a MNK in the group? Again, I'm not shitting on MNK, I'm asking what setups are you guys running WITH a MNK and still getting the same results. I'd like to see it. We have someone who would like to come on MNK if it works, but we don't see it being better than DRK so we aren't gonna bother wasting a run to test it, but if you can vouch for it and explain how it works just as well, that's great.

We use DRK to tank F and kite it during Green Hand mode while everyone else DPSes safely. We use it to tank Botulus so everyone can safely DPS from behind. We use it to SE both F and H to make everything smoother, because SB is not a replacement. SB lessens the TP the MNK gives the mob, while SE steals TP from the mob.

Maybe the WAR can hold threat on Botulus with Provoke, but likely he will turn a lot at the end of the cooldown. WAR definitely can not hold threat on F, so that's buffs the boss will gain and buffs you will lose, making the fight very hard. H will also be a little harder because he will get TP faster and switch more. But if you got solutions to these, I'm interested to hear it, or are you just theorizing and not actually did any of this with MNK?

I can't say for sure, because we use DRK and WAR too and we do 7 bosses anyway, because we kinda do it in more relaxed fashion. We plan to add H soon tho. That being said we have WAR tanking botulus, so I don't see a problem here. We also doesn't kite F, we make war and DRK do darkness with COR white damage with Arma and rdm magic burst with chainspell (2 x 28-30k nuke per skillchain). Soul enslavement isn't a deal breaker here. So if botulus and F is your concern, DRK is not required imo. MNK would require prime h2h to replace DRK in that strategy though.