Steadfast Shield

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Steadfast Shield
 Bismarck.Apathy
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By Bismarck.Apathy 2013-06-23 12:57:45
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Carbuncle.Luthian said: »
Carbuncle.Luthian said: »
I used a Steadfast shield to hold fracture NM's for my LS before I got an Ochain. I've even tanked all 5 nm's for about 10 minutes before my WHM ran out of mp. I'd say 50% block rate on Steadfast is being generous.


Like I said. GENEROUS.

So you offered into this math discussion, evidence of "My whm ran out of mp", and now try to claim the superior stance because someone else's data agreed with you after the fact. Thanks for adding nothing of value to this discussion and still trying to be smug.

Edit: Excellent post Martel, ty.
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 Odin.Creaucent
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By Odin.Creaucent 2013-06-23 12:59:52
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Now you are just grasping at straws.

Anyway like someone pointed out aegis and ochain are easy to make so why bother with anything less?
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-23 13:14:41
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It's much more than that, really. What is PLD used for right now that can't be accomplished by a DD wearing Twilight? Delve bosses. You can't serve your purpose as a tank on Delve bosses(the ability to survive anything while hell is breaking loose) without Aegis and Ochain. Period.
 Carbuncle.Luthian
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By Carbuncle.Luthian 2013-06-23 13:34:05
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Bismarck.Apathy said: »
Carbuncle.Luthian said: »
Carbuncle.Luthian said: »
I used a Steadfast shield to hold fracture NM's for my LS before I got an Ochain. I've even tanked all 5 nm's for about 10 minutes before my WHM ran out of mp. I'd say 50% block rate on Steadfast is being generous.


Like I said. GENEROUS.

So you offered into this math discussion, evidence of "My whm ran out of mp", and now try to claim the superior stance because someone else's data agreed with you after the fact. Thanks for adding nothing of value to this discussion and still trying to be smug.

Edit: Excellent post Martel, ty.

That which was of value was my experience using both shields in delve which was asked in a previous post. As to this being a "math" thread, more than half the posts were "eye-balling" numbers. As to being smug, I don't try anything. I just do it.

Great post Martel, I wasn't trying to diminish your math in any way. It was very welcome in the face of people claiming a 50% proc rate.
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 Asura.Sthrnrebel
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By Asura.Sthrnrebel 2013-06-24 10:27:06
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
So. Some more intensive testing on Steadfast Shield, and some comparisons to other shields.

Thank you so very much for this, Martel. This is *exactly* what I was hoping to achieve out of this thread. Opinions don't mean squat to me, I want hard facts and you delivered. Bravo and thanks again. Going to continue working on my Ochain!

Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
It's much more than that, really. What is PLD used for right now that can't be accomplished by a DD wearing Twilight? Delve bosses. You can't serve your purpose as a tank on Delve bosses(the ability to survive anything while hell is breaking loose) without Aegis and Ochain. Period.

You make a very valid statement and I thank you for the basic bluntness of the statement. I thought the same thing but I wanted factual verification which Martel gave us. Thanks again!
 Bahamut.Bojack
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By Bahamut.Bojack 2013-07-20 12:56:12
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How much of a block rate increase do you think the the extra 54 Shield skill being added to this shield will give? There's only about a 7% difference in block rate between this shield and the Aegis according to Martel's testing. Do you think it will pass the Aegis in block rate?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2013-07-20 13:59:31
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I just tried to go test, actually... But unfortunately there are several issues with testing on the test server.

A number of plugin/addons on non-functional on the test server atm. Spellcast most notably. And battlemod so I can't verify mob lvl.

But the real killer is that Kparser doesn't seem to be working. And there's just no way I'm hand counting thousands of hits....

So yeah, sorry. But tests will have to wait till this stuff hits the main servers. <,<;
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2013-07-21 20:36:32
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Reposting my test from BG.

Martel said:
Some small tests on this. A lot of stuff is messed up on the test server(no spellcast....) but Motenten fixed kparser for it damn fast, Thank you!

Note: Due to battle mod not working on the test server, I couldn't verify the mob levels beyond "IT." I'm assuming 104~105.

Steadfast Shield - 496 Skill - ItemLevel 105
Code
Summary
Total hits:1,570
Blocked:756
Non-blocked:814
Block%	48.15%

AVG Blocked DMG:12.31
AVG non-Blocked DMG:67.89
Block DMG%-	-81.8%



Total Block DMG reduction	-39.3%*

*this value is before the PDT on the shield itself. As this is the block DMG- value purely

So, gained about 10% block rate with the addition of +54 skill(the shield originally had +10 now +64)

This puts Steadfast slightly ahead of Aegis, even before the DT on the shield itself. Still doesn't touch Ochain.

Next test. How high can we get this block rate?

Steadfast Shield - 539 Skill - ItemLevel 105
Code
Summary
Total hits:1581
Blocked:931
Non-blocked:650
Block%	58.88%

AVG Blocked DMG:14.05
AVG non-Blocked DMG:
Block DMG%-	-81.5%


Total Block DMG reduction	--47.9%*

*this value is before the PDT on the shield itself. As this is the block DMG- value purely

Unfortunately, I'm lacking a lot of the newer(using that word generously) shield skill+ gear. And I forgot a piece of what I do have. So this test is on +43 skill over the last one.

Even so, gained another 10% block rate from +43 skill. 58.88% block rate. I probably should have done a test on low level mobs, to see how high I could push block rate, and check if it caps. But I didn't think about it at the time. Maybe after this stuff hits the real servers.

The logical next step is to test a Killedar shield. +215 skill.... I wanna see where that puts block rate. Perhaps it'll hit the cap for size three on these mobs..

Parse data:

If anyone wants to bring a Killedar shield to the test server for me... XD If not I may get one eventually, but ppl seem to be hoarding Gabranth horns atm. Or overpricing them.
 Ragnarok.Dragish
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By Ragnarok.Dragish 2013-08-11 11:35:30
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Any update data after shield got the shield skill+?
 Bismarck.Altar
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By Bismarck.Altar 2013-08-11 11:44:45
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Killedar shield will be far better than steadfast still, but the 100+ drop in skill from test server probably puts it behind ochain and aegis again
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2013-08-11 13:47:41
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Does no one read the mathy parts section on BG? Just wondering If I need to be putting these somewhere more obvious. Third time I've seen someone ask about this, even though my test post was up well beforehand.

Andway, post-update killedar test
Martel said:
I actually did these test the day of the update. Just kept forgetting to write up a post.

So, killedar now has +100 skill, rather than +218.
Code
105 mobs.
Shield				Skill	Block%	DMG-%	TDT-%
Steadfast			517	52.09%	-81.0%	-42.6%
Killedar			532	60.82%	-87.0%	-52.9%

So losing 118 skill cost killedar 23.41% block rate

So, how does this affect the current shield hierarchy?
Code
Shield				Skill	Block%	DMG-%	TDT-%
Ochain				432	100.0%	-66.1%	-66.1%
Killedar			532	60.82%	-87.0%	-52.9%
Steadfast			517	52.09%	-81.0%	-42.6%
Aegis				432	43.5%	-81.0%	-35.2%
The changes put Ochain on top again. Although, depending on reprisal's potency, it could put killedar pretty close. 15%~ block rate would put killedar about even with Ochain, on these mobs. Not sure how things would go on higher level stuff.
 Ragnarok.Dragish
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By Ragnarok.Dragish 2013-08-11 16:55:21
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thank you very much.
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