Selling At A...loss?

Look, I get it. People want to sell their ***. I do too.

But selling items at break-even or lower is just plain stupid. (Edit: Break even is selling at 5% NQ "profit" price or lower, since you need to consider the time it takes to actually mass synth vs. doing something else to gain gil, like farming sparks for an hour or farming dynamis/alexs).

Apparently, on Asura (and Odin, by the looks of it), people are selling cyan orb for ~5% profit (assuming NQs, which, frankly, is roughly what you are to expect from this level synth, since breaks and HQs even the costs/profit out, and a 90+% rate of NQs over all other synths means you have to go by NQ prices) and it is just plain stupid, and a waste of time to do. Anything less than 10% profit, you might as well do something else. 5% or less, you are losing out on making gil from other sources. I can farm Alexs and get a larger profit from one run than the time it takes to synth Cyan Orbs at a 5% profit in the same time frame.

So, to those crafters who think it's best to undercut to the point of insolvency, you are hurting yourself a whole lot more than anyone else. You might as well hoard your ***and sell when the market is ripe (in the case of Cyan Orbs, sell during Omen card event).

I expect a lot of people to flame this thread, that is normal, especially those who have no clue about opportunity costs or basic economic principles. So, by all means, come at me bro!

Welcome to Asura where somehow everything you want to sell gets undercut like crazy, but everything you want to buy is over AH price even when there's like 30 up.

Sad part is, it's like the same person who logs on once a week, sell a bunch at breakeven or worse, and then doesn't come back until next week.

This thread has potential.

Marine stewpot had about 50 on auction house the other day. 200k price last ten sales. Could not buy one for 290k. There's so much price manipulation you just get used to it by now

I only make gil on cyan orbs during omen campaigns. Last time I spent time on the orbs some dude came in and took a dump over the market and undercut it down like crazy. Ended up with 20 returned that I just used for my own gear.

Cyan orbs are also used for skill-up (105-110), it can be price effective when other mats aren't available.

I think a large part of it are people who don't craft, buy a couple of items at normal price, sell them at greatly deflated prices 10 times (either through mules or themselves), and walk away. Just so they can start buying those items at greatly deflated prices later on.

It's especially worse for NQ items. In a normal economy NQ items would sell at breakeven, and HQ items would sell at a slightly higher premium. In Asura economy, NQ items sell at super loss (70% or greater loss) while HQ items sell at super profit (1000% or greater profit). Which, if it's mathed out, would either be just as much profit/time or less than if you sold it normally.

Maliya orbs are much better to skill up on. Same skill level, can get capped skill off of them, and MUCH cheaper to do. Still sell at a profit when you skill up.

That's what I did. Cyan orbs are just too expensive to skill up on.

people with mass amounts of gil that can manipulate the market are the reason for all this. hopefully with the sparks nerf people who bot sparks 24/7 can no longer accumulate all the liquid gil and control the market

It is simple supply and demand. To many orbs, not enough orb buyers. Whats the issue? Your not entitled to make gil off one synth, go do something else.

Btw its a very common business practice to sell things at a loss to drive competition away. Seems its working too since your upset and stopped crafting the items.

Why dont you try going all strategic and lowering the price to 1gil each item, you will remove competition very fast that way :D and I need to upgrade some gear!

Who said I stopped crafting the orbs?

If they want to sell orbs at a loss, by all means let them. I already have my hoarding up and already have a secondary craft ready to do when I feel like it. Hell, I don't even have anything on AH right now (mainly because I haven't logged in today yet).

I'm just pointing out the fact that people crafting at breakeven or a loss are only hurting themselves, they aren't hurting anyone else.

sounds like they're hurting you, poor guy

k

But hey, if you think they are hurting me, go ahead and support their self-destructing behavior. Buy them at sub NQ prices! Drive them out of business!

That will teach me!

Didn't we do this thread already.

You think they're selling at break even price. They're not.

You're playing "fairly" against someone who isn't.

I could sell whatever you're trying to sell for 1 gil all day every day for years, and have no impact on my gil. You're playing a game (in a game) you can't win.

I looked, didn't see it.

So, wait, didn't they patch that exploit? Or is there something new going on now?

I have patience, I know your end game. I also know you will never keep up with me when I continuously change craft items. I also know that you don't know the other 8 selling mules I have, nor my main I'm using right now, so you can camp my name on FFXIAH but never know what I'm truly selling.

So, bring it fool.

And it wasn't a challenge, just facts. Relax, Breathe.

Wasn't a thread, just a post.

Even then, I believe that ship sailed a long time ago. Since that post, Cyan's jumped up to 330k/stack for a hot minute (due to Omen cards week), before dropping down to 210k/stack again. If they are still hoarding them, they are doing it wrong.

Besides, I was hoping you would be stupid enough to dump all your gil on a stupid endeavor. You seem to be the type to do that.

If you knew his endgame, or even the game he's playing, you would have never made this thread.

I do know how he got his gil. He bots. He also gets the majority of his gil by exploits or sparks. He also sells his gil as an RMT.

I don't bot. I don't exploit. I also don't RMT.

Big difference.

If people see that this thread was created to complain about a single item selling at a lower rate than what I think it should selling for, then they really need to stop skimming the OP.

I only used Cyan Orbs as an example.

BGwiki has both Malaya orbs and Cyan Orbs as capping at 105. How are you guys skilling to cap off them?

One of the updates 2ish(?) years ago lets you skill above cap now.

Skill caps do not work that way anymore, you get skill-ups past cap (albeit at a lower rate).

Oh wow, I just got back from a 6 year break so didn’t know about that. How far past the cap can you skill of each item?

It's been a hot minute wak.

Up to... 11 levels over.

You can get to 110 on a level 99 synth. (the skill up rate does crater significantly, but it can be done)

I didn't say anything about how he got his gil, nor do I care. You make a lot of assumptions though. My point was that just because someone appears to be selling "at a loss" as you say, doesn't mean that they are. Wal-mart operates at a 4% global profit margin, yet some smart person managed to turn that into the largest retail entity on earth. Other people here already pointed out that it's due to market manipulation but you seem to be stuck on the notion that people are just stupid.

There is a major difference between Walmart and a single person producing products.

A single-owner/employee entity can make a 75%+ profit and do really well. That doesn't mean that, as they grow, they will continue to make a 75%+ profit margin.

You are literally comparing apples to oranges now.

Not accusing you directly of this, @Kingnobody, but it does seem to be a general problem among ffxi players.

People look at the Auction House as no different than selling to an NPC. I list at a price, I get that price. If it doesn't work that way, something is being cheated.

Its a free market. In fact, its worse than a free market in terms of how it can be (fairly) manipulated. I use the term "fairly" loosely- only in relation to game regs, not moral principles. At least in a "fair market", prices and sellers are posted. This is the equivalent of going to a government facility, handing them 20 bucks, and then being given the product you wanted to buy from some random seller/producer with zero regard to your preference as a buyer.

Those who can effectively manipulate it are perfectly in their right to do so. If you don't want to support RMT thru the AH, you're left with the same thing that those in the real world must do if they only want to support local merchants.

Buy local. On ffxi, that's via trade and bazaar. Otherwise, you're asking for it. If you're a seller and want fair prices for your goods, be it farming or crafting results, stop seeking the first sale and bazaar only, and talk to your friends and connections about how you're a source for XYZ product, and you can guarantee that the gil stays on your server vs entering the RMT system directly. Its not guaranteed, and its very difficult on smaller servers, but it is doable.

I don't see how this is "worse than a free market" when it's probably more "free" than, well, all other economies.

It at least proves that regulations are required, because humans are jackasses.

Thats some leftist lazy mentality.

First, everyone who dont do what you want them to do, do it because they are "jackasses".

Second, as you cant be competitive, you need to cry to some government to put them in the right place so your non-competitive goods can sell.