Dual Wield Formulas And Haste Values

I run into a lot of instances in which people don't know haste values or how much dual wield to use. Not just the DW formula, but how much you will need. This should help literally any job that uses dual wield as a functionality. Keep in mind, the more DW you use, the lower the tp per hit you will get.

The max -delay you can get is -80
Even though you can reach 25% gear haste, 25% JA haste, 43.75% Magic haste, and various levels of DW, you can't break the 80% mark.

I realize this is already known information. Not all this information is known to everyone and I figured may as well have a quick reference for all values.

(Quick refrence for people subbing DW job)
Sub dnc is 15 dw
sub nin is 25 dw

DW traits
I = 10% (nin 10, dnc 20, thf 83)
II = 15% (nin 25, dnc 40, thf 87)
III = 25% (nin 45, dnc 60, thf 98)
IV = 30% (nin 60, dnc 85, thf w/550 JP)
V = 35% (nin 85)

Blu may hit based on level, jp and spells set. Subbing nin, not recommended, will grant you 25 DW. Using the spell traits you need 8 points per tier of DW. At both 100jp and 1200jp on blu you are granted a bonus to your spell traits. This is additive, meaning if you set DW spell trait I on blu with 100jp you will have DW II. If you set DW I at 1200jp you will get +2 bonus, putting your trait to DW III. Assuming you set DW III in spell at 100jp, you will get DW IV, and again setting DW III at 1200jp you will have DW V

Blu DW spells are

lvl	Spell	Set Points	Trait Points
lvl 79	Animating Wail	3	4
lvl 80	Blazing Bound	3	4
lvl 85	Quad. Continuum	4	4
lvl 89	Delta Thrust	2	4
lvl 91	Mortal Ray	4	4
lvl 99	Barbed Crescent	2	4
lvl 88	Molting Plumage	6	8

Magical haste values are

Refueling 10%
Haste 15%, Hastega 15%, Animating Wail 15%, Mighty Guard 15% (15% = 0.146484375)
Haste II 30%, Hastega II 30%, Erratic Flutter 30% (30% = 0.2998046875)
Advancing March 6-14%,
Victory March 9-17%%
Honor March 15%

Spell	Merits/Gear	Dunna	Idris
Indi-Haste	29.9%	35.4%	40.9%

Magic haste cap is 43.75%


Job Ability Haste
Hasso 10% (Can be increased with gear)
Haste Samba 5-10%
Last Resort 15-25%
Catastrophe with Apocalypse iLv119 (III) 10%

Ragnarok.Martel said: »

Wyvern parameter bonus grants 10% JA haste when maxed.(2% per 200 wyvern exp, max 5 times) Also, Spirit Surge is 25% JA haste.

Job Ability Haste cap is 25%

Quote:

Adding in a ScreenShot of Chiaia's Chart and link to the BG-Wiki Attack Speed Page

Asura.Chiaia said: »

Formula = (1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.15 + .25))) -0.15 = DW needed
The first 0.15 represents having 15% magic haste
the .25 represents 25% gear haste
The final number is -0.15, this is to subtract the amount of DW you have in traits.


The formulas below will help you depending on the haste you have so you may figure out dw needed. The higher the haste values, the lower you want to have your DW to prevent loss of tp per hit.

Values are already rounded up.

No Haste
No haste 10 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.10 = 64 DW needed

No haste 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.15 = 59 DW needed

No haste 25 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.25 = 49 DW needed

No haste 30 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.30 = 44 DW needed

No haste 35 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.35 = 39 DW needed

10% Haste
10% haste 10 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.1 + .25))) -0.1 = 60 DW needed

10% haste 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.1 + .25))) -0.15 = 55 DW needed

10% haste 25 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.1 + .25))) -0.25 = 45 DW needed

10% haste 30 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.1 + .25))) -0.3 = 40 DW needed

10% haste 35 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.1 + .25))) -0.35 = 35 DW needed

15% Haste
15% haste 10 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.146484375 + .25))) -0.10 = 57 DW needed

15% haste 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.146484375 + .25))) -0.15 = 52 DW needed

15% haste 25 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.146484375 + .25))) -0.25 = 42 DW needed

15% haste 30 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.146484375 + .25))) -0.30 = 37 DW needed

15% haste 35 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.146484375 + .25))) -0.35 = 32 DW needed

30% Haste
30% haste 10 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.2998046875 + .25))) -0.10 = 46 DW needed

30% haste 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.2998046875 + .25))) -0.15 = 41 DW needed

30% haste 25 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.2998046875 + .25))) -0.25 = 31 DW needed

30% haste 30 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.2998046875 + .25))) -0.30 = 26 DW needed

30% haste 35 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.2998046875 + .25))) -0.10 = 21 DW needed

Magic Haste Cap
Haste cap with 10 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.4375 + .25))) -0.10 = 26 DW needed

Haste cap with 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.4375 + .25))) -0.15 = 21 DW needed

Haste cap with 25 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.4375 + .25))) -0.25 = 11 DW needed

Haste cap with 30 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.4375 + .25))) -0.30 = 6 DW needed

Haste cap with 35 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.4375 + .25))) -0.35 = 1 DW needed



Haste and Dual Wield values are credit to the people that did the testing and posted on bg-wiki, bg-forums and ffxiclopedia, I did NOT test these values myself.

Sylph.Braden said: »

I know H2H is in a bad spot right now, but here's some Martial Arts math:

Hand-to-Hand base delay is 480
Delay is 480 + "Delay+"
Haste is haste, you all know what haste is
MA Needed = Delay - ((Delay * 20) / (100 - Haste))

And here's a quick table of common iLvl weapons:

Code

Name			Delay+	MA+	0%	10%	15%	30%	43.75%
Unarmed				0	0	352	333	320	267	173
Kenkonken			49	55	388	367	353	294	191
Comeuppances +1		49	0	388	367	353	294	191
Verethragna			51	0	390	368	354	295	192
Eminent				51	0	390	368	354	295	192
Comeuppances		51	0	390	368	354	295	192
Nyepel				51	0	390	368	354	295	192
Hammerfists			51	5	390	368	354	295	192
Midnights			54	0	392	370	356	297	193
Condemners			54	0	392	370	356	297	193
Ohtas				54	0	392	370	356	297	193
Godhands			60	0	396	374	360	300	195
Homestead			60	0	396	374	360	300	195
Fleshcarvers		60	3	396	374	360	300	195
Spharai				86	0	416	392	378	315	204
Glanzfaust			96	0	423	399	384	320	208
Denouements			96	0	423	399	384	320	208
Oatixur				96	0	423	399	384	320	208
Tinhaspa			96	0	423	399	384	320	208
Ohrmazd				130	0	448	423	407	339	220

Note that the total MA needed includes all sources of MA, including traits, gifts, and gear.

Sylph.Braden said: »

Oh right, I should through in Martial Arts values from traits and JPs/Gifts:

Code

MNK		MA+		PUP		MA+
Lv.1	80		Lv.25	80
Lv.16	100		Lv.50	100
Lv.31	120		Lv.75	120
Lv.46	140		Lv.87	140
Lv.61	160		Lv.97	160
Lv.75	180		JP550	165
Lv.82	200		MA JPs	+0 to +40
JP100	205		Master	205
JP1200	210

Stickied.

Funny enough I made a little calculator for the wiki been waiting on the server to spit it out. Will update this post with a link once its ready.

When you do I would like to be able to post in the top crediting you if that is ok

In the meantime you can use the online version of the DW calculator Chia is uploading to BG. NoMoarMathz.

It also currently has Wildfire and Death calculations. The one on the wiki will also eventually be expanded to be an all in one calculator.

EDIT:

You would have to keep ripping it out of the wiki as it is updated for any changes that will be made to it. I don't see why anyone wouldn't just use the wiki in that case.

-Spicyryan

I know H2H is in a bad spot right now, but here's some Martial Arts math:

Hand-to-Hand base delay is 480
Delay is 480 + "Delay+"
Haste is haste, you all know what haste is
MA Needed = Delay - ((Delay * 20) / (100 - Haste))

And here's a quick table of common iLvl weapons:


Note that the total MA needed includes all sources of MA, including traits, gifts, and gear.

Quoted

Oh right, I should through in Martial Arts values from traits and JPs/Gifts:

One thing I noticed.
No haste 15 DW
(1 - (0.2 / (1 - (0.0 + .25))) -0.15 = 58 DW needed
= 79.75% Should be 59 the rest of you list for 0% is going with 80.5%

I'm also nervous using decimal rounded representations rather than binary values actually used in game:
Haste = 150/1024 = .146484375 not .15
Haste II = 307/1024 = .2998046875 not .3
etc
Gear haste cap is 256/1024 = .25 tho so that works out ok.
You used the magic haste caps of 43.75% (448/1024) rather than rounding so that's good.

The ones I checked still work but I wouldn't be surprised if one or two are a DW or two off because of that as well. It is also unclear if DW uses base 2 the wiki doesn't state it does, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do, or pretty much any calculations in the game probably do, especially for a game from this era made for consoles and often sending data over a modem float numbers would've been considered an expensive luxary.

In any case, thanks for making a listed resource and doing all this work :) I'd suggest to use the base 2 numbers rather than rounded decimal haste values especially since it's a resource many will probably use. Even if the rounding doesn't result in an error, knowledge is power and all that and situations do come up it can make a difference even if not here. So that's my feedback other than good job otherwise.

Changed


I will go back through all the values when I have time this week.

I can say this all the #s besides the one they fixed already check out using the /1024 system. I had already ran the numbers last week when working on my calculator and made a table for the wiki.
Dual Wield Cheat-sheet

That whole page will be receiving a complete update once the wiki software starts including my css for the calculator.

I do highly agree the math presented should be using the /1024 system though because you had to round when did yours, luckily it still worked out for you.

Added in a Screen Shot and link to the page.


Adjusted the magical haste values of haste 1 and haste 2. Formulas worked out well due to the rounding up of the remaining DW needed.

I was looking at the list of JA haste sources here. I'd have ignored it since DRG doesn't have much to do with dual wield, but since Hasso is on the JA haste list there too and it's completely antithetical to dualwield... Not to mention last resort and Aopcalypse.

Time to nitpick!

Wyvern parameter bonus grants 10% JA haste when maxed.(2% per 200 wyvern exp, max 5 times) Also, Spirit Surge is 25% JA haste.

No nitpicking, just useful and needed information. Added in a quote to give you credit for adding to the post.

Looks like a silly question, but as a quite fresh BLU99, Im wondering:

Subbing /Nin will grant me DW III - 25DW.

Does BLU spell / trait set stack on top of the /NIN DW trait ?
(i.e. do I need to only set 1 DW trait with spells like Molting Plumage (8 trait points) to get access to DW IV ?

Nope gorns ^^

They don't stack. If you get the same trait on both job and subjob, you get the highest tier between the two.

Thx guys, I assumed it was the case, but now it's confirmed :)