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LOL Wipe Vs Warder Of Courage ;) |
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LOL Wipe vs Warder of Courage ;)
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So apparently pets hate is non existent here! Our first run, likely not to repeat for a long while haha =)
YouTube Video Placeholder Goddamnit, Sammeh. That was supposed to be our secret shame!
Tbh, we went into it knowing we were going to die, we just wanted to observe hate mechanics specifically for ourselves. It seems that pets do indeed end up on the hate list, they just either don't generate any enmity at all, or something else is up. A blackbeard did take hate when noone else was on the hate list, but it's irrelevant. Also, Ventriloquy sent AV away from me, but not towards the pet. This leads me to believe that rather than pets not being able to generate enmity, they have some sort of (maybe instant) hate loss. I'm almost certain that is how it is, but I'm going to try again as /blu or /pld at some point and see what happens. I suspect it'll be the same thing though. Damn! Nice video...epic deaths!
Didn't think SE would smarten up and actually make a fight people can't just SMT: IMAGINE to victory =O Ragnarok.Orlind said: » Damn! Nice video...epic deaths! Didn't think SE would smarten up and actually make a fight people can't just SMT: IMAGINE to victory =O I loved that game :( So basically you can't sub BST on your BST to call beast another BST to call more BST's.
Thank god. Maybe people finally stop throwing pets at everything. It's become a FOO strategy and really screwed up game balance. If you haven't seen the extra credits episode about balancing games for skill vs power then watch it. Really gets to the meat of balancing for skill and some of the associated pit falls involved if a developer fails to do this. YouTube Video Placeholder
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Our shell was created out of people who love playing pet jobs. We have been pet dedicated. We've been doing this long before the bandwagon approach. No one suggests this is the only way to play and we haven't taken away anyone else's ability to play the way they want to.
Saeval you can't bring your hatred for pet jobs, people bandwagoning blue or dancer everywhere. Give it a break. Keep going on and on this dude.
Fenrir.Cherrywine
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I was surprised to see this. The recorded win has a automaton tanking it, so I wonder what happened here?
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: » I was surprised to see this. The recorded win has a automaton tanking it, so I wonder what happened here? I skimmed over the video again as I hadn't watched it since the first time it came out. The Automaton doesn't ever take hate from what I saw. I imagine they took it as insurance against charm, but I personally didn't observe it. I'm not going to totally rewatch the video to see it. If it had charmed, I suspect you would have seen what happened to us. Asura.Saevel said: » It's become a FOO strategy and really screwed up game balance. YouTube Video Placeholder I'd actually agree with you on this. But we're not at all bandwagoners, and we've proven as much many a time. Now that Beastmasters have to be in range, you'll notice our Beastmasters using /sch with maxed out stoneskin sets to keep themselves alive. They also use maxed out cure potency sets to take care of themselves if need be, and carry remedies to get rid of status aliments. They take hits now, and to be honest, I think that's better. Since we have players of all skill/gear/job point ranges in our Linkshell, I can assure you that the standard 100jp Beastmasters are NOT doing end game like they were able to before the range changes. Beyond even that, what are you suggest is balanced? The only strategy I see employed in end game at this point is to have a Scholar(who can not miss) making skillchains, then having mages magic burst off of that skillchain. Use Geomancers to avoid actually dealing with mechanics/bolster the ***out of magic damage, and a Paladin to sit there and hold things. To clarify, I'm talking about content over 130, as anything below that isn't even meant to be difficult. If things were balanced, there would be several viable strategies to handle end game content, and we don't see that. I'm also not suggesting that it's impossible to handle content over 130, but I am saying that it's not really something anyone is trying/doing. Not that I have seen, anyway. I would love to see it if anyone has anything. Comparatively, using Beastmasters at this point isn't optimal at all. It takes longer, that's for damn sure. And if you watch that Fleetstalker video posted a while back, Beasts do indeed die from AoE. Before the range changes, I'd absolutely agree that Beastmaster was overpowered. Now? Eh. It's not something you can just walk into anymore with 100jp, a Charmers Merlin and ASA pants and do quite literally the hardest content in the game. Bahamut.Foreverj said: » Saeval you can't bring your hatred for pet jobs, people bandwagoning blue or dancer everywhere. Give it a break. Keep going on and on this dude. Preach. Dude needs to gps a seat and sit. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » Fenrir.Cherrywine said: » I was surprised to see this. The recorded win has a automaton tanking it, so I wonder what happened here? I skimmed over the video again as I hadn't watched it since the first time it came out. The Automaton doesn't ever take hate from what I saw. I imagine they took it as insurance against charm, but I personally didn't observe it. I'm not going to totally rewatch the video to see it. If it had charmed, I suspect you would have seen what happened to us. Has anyone tried tanking it with August? Does he wipe hate similarly to autmatons? Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » The only strategy I see employed in end game at this point is to have a Scholar(who can not miss) making skillchains, then having mages magic burst off of that skillchain. I haven't attempted Courage yet, but as RUN, I'm anticipating using Gelus with Vallation/Valiance and switching over to Tenebrae Pflug for Charm resistance, and macro in Charm resist gear when I see Soul Voice activate. Sylph.Jeanpaul said: » Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » The only strategy I see employed in end game at this point is to have a Scholar(who can not miss) making skillchains, then having mages magic burst off of that skillchain. I haven't attempted Courage yet, but as RUN, I'm anticipating using Gelus with Vallation/Valiance and switching over to Tenebrae Pflug for Charm resistance, and macro in Charm resist gear when I see Soul Voice activate. I think GEO spells like Vex and Attunement, and COR roll like Runeist can help a lot to resist charm, other debuffs and a huge amount of magic dmg. Think about it ! Who handles the Wynavs? Does his HP scale with players too? Would be hard to fit in all the jobs you need into a single party, but also, increasing much beyond that will make the fight take longer therefore more risk over time.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: » I was surprised to see this. The recorded win has a automaton tanking it, so I wonder what happened here? I can't find that video. Can someone please post a link ? Nevermind, found it. Phoenix.Faloun said: » I think GEO spells like Vex and Attunement, and COR roll like Runeist can help a lot to resist charm, other debuffs and a huge amount of magic dmg. Think about it ! Bring a BRD and lock his 2hr by zooming into the chat window.
Sylph.Jeanpaul said: » Phoenix.Faloun said: » I think GEO spells like Vex and Attunement, and COR roll like Runeist can help a lot to resist charm, other debuffs and a huge amount of magic dmg. Think about it ! Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » I'd actually agree with you on this. But we're not at all bandwagoners, and we've proven as much many a time. Now that Beastmasters have to be in range, you'll notice our Beastmasters using /sch with maxed out stoneskin sets to keep themselves alive. They also use maxed out cure potency sets to take care of themselves if need be, and carry remedies to get rid of status aliments. They take hits now, and to be honest, I think that's better. Since we have players of all skill/gear/job point ranges in our Linkshell, I can assure you that the standard 100jp Beastmasters are NOT doing end game like they were able to before the range changes. Beyond even that, what are you suggest is balanced? The only strategy I see employed in end game at this point is to have a Scholar(who can not miss) making skillchains, then having mages magic burst off of that skillchain. Use Geomancers to avoid actually dealing with mechanics/bolster the ***out of magic damage, and a Paladin to sit there and hold things. To clarify, I'm talking about content over 130, as anything below that isn't even meant to be difficult. If things were balanced, there would be several viable strategies to handle end game content, and we don't see that. I'm also not suggesting that it's impossible to handle content over 130, but I am saying that it's not really something anyone is trying/doing. Not that I have seen, anyway. I would love to see it if anyone has anything. Comparatively, using Beastmasters at this point isn't optimal at all. It takes longer, that's for damn sure. And if you watch that Fleetstalker video posted a while back, Beasts do indeed die from AoE. Before the range changes, I'd absolutely agree that Beastmaster was overpowered. Now? Eh. It's not something you can just walk into anymore with 100jp, a Charmers Merlin and ASA pants and do quite literally the hardest content in the game. If you stop and actually read, then watch that video, you'd realize your actually agreeing with me. This kind of reply is what happens when you skim a post and substitute your own arguments for the posters. Prior to the distance nerf it very much was about minimal effort BST wins, primarily due to the simplicity involved. Less moving parts, aka less required skill, for an overpowered result. Now with the distance nerf there are more moving parts, to get the same results the players need to now add more factors and pay more attention. Essentially SE has raised the skill requirement to effectively utilize BST zergs, this is a good thing. Now we can discuss SC + MB, this strat is actually semi-balanced right now because there is skill required, though I would prefer SC's generated by more then one person have a larger damage / MB bonus applied. What's unbalanced is melee strats which have become entirely non-viable on anything over 135. They require even more moving parts, aka more player skill, then SCH SC + MB but garner less of a result and are inherently more difficult to successfully pull off. This is a result of the developers attempting to create "challenge" by merely creating ridiculous stats NMs with a bazillion status ailments instead of fixing core game mechanics. Anyhow put the keyboard down and watch that video. Also watch the ones they made about power creep, how it relates to power curve, how to avoid it and what happens if it's not avoided. it will change how you see game mechanics. Asura.Loire said: » I'd put this charm in a different camp then the direct charm you get from mobs as this is maiden's viralei. Been curious though have you been able to resist the beautiful death and other charm from the tier 3 belladonna with phlugg and tenebrae? Asura.Saevel said: » Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » I'd actually agree with you on this. But we're not at all bandwagoners, and we've proven as much many a time. Now that Beastmasters have to be in range, you'll notice our Beastmasters using /sch with maxed out stoneskin sets to keep themselves alive. They also use maxed out cure potency sets to take care of themselves if need be, and carry remedies to get rid of status aliments. They take hits now, and to be honest, I think that's better. Since we have players of all skill/gear/job point ranges in our Linkshell, I can assure you that the standard 100jp Beastmasters are NOT doing end game like they were able to before the range changes. Beyond even that, what are you suggest is balanced? The only strategy I see employed in end game at this point is to have a Scholar(who can not miss) making skillchains, then having mages magic burst off of that skillchain. Use Geomancers to avoid actually dealing with mechanics/bolster the ***out of magic damage, and a Paladin to sit there and hold things. To clarify, I'm talking about content over 130, as anything below that isn't even meant to be difficult. If things were balanced, there would be several viable strategies to handle end game content, and we don't see that. I'm also not suggesting that it's impossible to handle content over 130, but I am saying that it's not really something anyone is trying/doing. Not that I have seen, anyway. I would love to see it if anyone has anything. Comparatively, using Beastmasters at this point isn't optimal at all. It takes longer, that's for damn sure. And if you watch that Fleetstalker video posted a while back, Beasts do indeed die from AoE. Before the range changes, I'd absolutely agree that Beastmaster was overpowered. Now? Eh. It's not something you can just walk into anymore with 100jp, a Charmers Merlin and ASA pants and do quite literally the hardest content in the game. If you stop and actually read, then watch that video, you'd realize your actually agreeing with me. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » I'd actually agree with you on this. Prior to the distance nerf it very much was about minimal effort BST wins, primarily due to the simplicity involved. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » Before the range changes, I'd absolutely agree that Beastmaster was overpowered. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » They take hits now, and to be honest, I think that's better. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing where we have a different opinion regarding post range change Beastmaster. Asura.Saevel said: » So basically you can't sub BST on your BST to call beast another BST to call more BST's. Thank god. Maybe people finally stop throwing pets at everything. It's become a FOO strategy and really screwed up game balance. My assumption when reading this is that you are talking SPECIFICALLY about Warder of Courage. Because that is the thread we are in. While perhaps your intent is different, and if that is indeed the case, I apologze for my assumptions, it seems as though you feel that post range pet groups should not be able to use their particular tactics to handle content RIGHT NOW. This is why I wrote my reply the way I did. To exemplify the fact that Beastmaster isn't a FOO option, as you put it. Not after the changes in Ready/reward distance, anyway. In your second post, you make it clear that you feel Beastmaster is better balanced now that Beastmasters have to go into AoE range rather than sitting back and hitting their ready/reward macros. I agree with this, I have been quite vocal about how I agree with this. The clarification of your opinion in your second post makes me see that you're speaking abstractly about what was the case previously. Since otherwise you wouldn't state in your second post that you feel the range change is a good thing, rather than stating that it isn't enough. In a game with as much incredible diversity as FFXI, I find it disappointing that there is so little deviation in strategy regarding 130+ content. I have no desire to see anything "nerfed", I don't care how other people achieve their objectives. I think the system should be balanced in such a way that all jobs have a degree of usefulness and viability, so that people can play the jobs they want to play. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » Ragnarok.Orlind said: » Damn! Nice video...epic deaths! Didn't think SE would smarten up and actually make a fight people can't just SMT: IMAGINE to victory =O I loved that game :( I loved that game too. DDS graphics + SMT madness + everyone is a BST+whatever you want. It was my vacation home from this game =O Asura.Loire said: » Sylph.Jeanpaul said: » Phoenix.Faloun said: » I think GEO spells like Vex and Attunement, and COR roll like Runeist can help a lot to resist charm, other debuffs and a huge amount of magic dmg. Think about it ! There's a ZNM that will do Charm using Maiden's Viralei, Anantonga or something like that. It's low level so if someone was going to test, would do it naked. Can take a few hundred samples without runes, then again with tenebrae runes and might be able to see a diffence in resist rates. Caitsith.Mahayaya said: » There's a ZNM that will do Charm using Maiden's Viralei, Anantonga or something like that. It's low level so if someone was going to test, would do it naked. Can take a few hundred samples without runes, then again with tenebrae runes and might be able to see a diffence in resist rates. Quetzalcoatl.Tesseracta
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Have Tess tank it on whm '-'
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Fenrir.Cherrywine said: » I was surprised to see this. The recorded win has a automaton tanking it, so I wonder what happened here? The reason that it's meant to be an emergency tank in this situation is for when Warder of Courage uses Soul Voice and goes on a Charm rampage. If your main tank gets charmed then Warder of Courage will turn on the Automaton, which is of course immune to charm. The back line should keep up their assault during this phase to keep damage up. Hate is usually an issue with the Valoredge but when the tank gets charmed the Puppetmaster needs to hit Heady Artifice so the Valoredge will hit Invincible and skyrocket it's static enmity (job points) for the duration of the charm on the main tank. Beastmaster suffers here because its pets cannot generate enough enmity by themselves and snarl will not work either.
Necro Bump Detected!
[124 days between previous and next post]
So after a VERY long break from end game, we've come back last week to start working on things again. Namely for them' lockstyle Aeonics. We also got our very first Idris Geo(Gratz Tess) yesterday.
So after getting our Idris Geo, Reisenjima gear and shiny, worthless mythic (III)s, we decided to do out thing and beat on WoC with Beastmasters. It actually works okay, but there are some minor issues. Getting him to 50% is pretty easy, honestly. Beastmasters absolutely destroy his Wynavs, they are super easy to deal with. What DOES become and issue are the same two hours that probably screw over everyone else. Benediction and Soul Voice. I know for a fact that we can kill this thing with pets if we could just lock out those damned 2hrs. The issue with killing him with Beastmasters is that after Bracelets go up, Tegminas drop from 20-30k damage to 5-6k. But you get him to 50% so fast that you have plenty of time to kill him the rest of the way, IF NOT FOR GODDAMN BENEDICTION AND SOUL VOICE. Bursting Death is much faster, you just won't have to deal with as many 2hr rotations. He does a lot of them when you try to kill him with pets. Benediction after Bracelets means you just walk away. Sometimes you can't get that white proc in the seconds between Invincible and Bene. Soulvoice is largely the same. Eventually you just run out of methods of dealing with it. We can usually get through one of them, but a second one just screws us. SO! I'm not really as up to date on this thing as I feel I should be. He seems mechanically similar to AV, does this mean it's possible to lock his 2hr in the same fashion? I haven't heard of anyone being able to do it, but I haven't been keeping up with end game threads really. Also, for anyone interested, 1880 accuracy with Idris Torpor seems to cap accuracy. I'm not sure if that number includes the 100 accuracy bonus on ready moves or not, but Falk told me 1880 was capping him. So that might actually be 1980 if he was just giving me his base accuracy. Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » What DOES become and issue are the same two hours that probably screw over everyone else. Benediction and Soul Voice. SO! I'm not really as up to date on this thing as I feel I should be. He seems mechanically similar to AV, does this mean it's possible to lock his 2hr in the same fashion? I haven't heard of anyone being able to do it, but I haven't been keeping up with end game threads really. I do not think anyone has successfully "locked out" his abilities. Pretty sure that cannot be done ( pretty sure its not the same as regular version), or is not known how to be done. He is basically a luck NM. You have to get lucky with what he uses, and keep on trying. He can be killed still if it uses Benediction and Charm once during a fight but if it starts spamming then its let it go and pop another. Use charm buffer when he uses soul voice. Also, the first 3 min or so of fight he does not use any of them, so utilizing that time to zerg as much hp off as possible is a good idea if you can. |
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