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Illegal immigrants to get CA driver licenses.
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-03 01:40:50
I was unaware an epidemic of traffic accidents have been occurring due to illegal immigrants driving illegally.. Oh wait.. theirs not.. Since you are more than happy to say getting illegal immigrants legal to drive will increase public safety. I would have to say getting them legal to drive will only decrease public safety since the DMV is gonna be pushing them through like cattle. If you think they are gonna be passing their drivers test with above avg. marks you are greatly mistaken. Not to mention the drivers test at the DMV is already a joke to start with. All this is doing is giving them yet another reason to hope the border over and over again since they can now brazenly walk right into a state run office and NOT get deported for it. Not like that matters though because the can already walk into a federally run office and get free food and medical.. smh. It's a matter of practicality. We can't feasibly prevent any and all immigrants from entering illegally so we're presenting with the situation of managing those that do. I agree that passing a driver's license exam is not the end all/be all of public safety but increasing the likelihood of encountering an individual with car insurance directly impacts the legal citizenry. The state DMV is not designed to be the bottleneck for illegal immigration. They just want to, foremost, collect their fees for transportation maintenance then subsequently ensure a standard among the drivers within its jurisdiction.
I don't see why, as a driver, one would want to work against any measure that would improve either of those matters. Again, this type of action does not change their immigrant status nor endorse illegal immigration. We're just talking about what is practical.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 01:43:31
Ragnarok.Leysritt said: »You lost all of my respect with that huge insult hurl. Based on what you wrote after this line, your respect is worth bupkis to me. I'd be insulted if you respected me while spouting pie-in-the-sky nonsense about sealing the borders.
No one disputes that unregulated (illegal) immigration is a dangerous thing. "Sealing the borders" is a literal impossibility. Many illegals gained entry to the country legally, anyhow, so building some magic wall along the southern US won't do much.
And, Ravael, I've had moderators chat with me from time to time. The difference is that I actually engage in conversation and acknowledge their points, even if I don't necessarily agree. That kind of encapsulates the problem as a whole: a particular subset of each side of the political spectrum here has no sense of proportion or compromise (just like our government). It just seems that the more leftist types don't trumpet about it. Currently.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 01:47:02
I agree that passing a driver's license exam is not the end all/be all of public safety but increasing the likelihood of encountering an individual with car insurance directly impacts the legal citizenry. What are you talking about here? I'm licensed to drive and I don't pay a penny in insurance. Because I don't own a motor vehicle. Insurance mandate and licensure are two separate issues.
That said, I gave up my license several years ago as I wasn't using it. I went through the process of getting it back this past year (which was just like when I got it at age 16 except I didn't need classroom hours) and I watched a lot of (primarily Somali) immigrants in my local BMV fail their written exam. Just gaining simple familiarity with local driving laws is reason enough to permit anyone to get a license.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-03 01:52:18
I guess I'm lumping in car registration with licensing. They tend to go hand-in-hand because I live in place where you're practically required to have a car. It's not an unexpected scenario when it comes to California.
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 01:55:59
Car registration is a completely different kettle of fish. You're assuming that someone is going to register their car, for one. Considering CA emission standards, there's plenty of natural-born citizens who try to skirt that stuff with their ***-heap vehicles.
By Enuyasha 2015-01-03 02:09:08
I guess I'm lumping in car registration with licensing. They tend to go hand-in-hand because I live in place where you're practically required to have a car. It's not an unexpected scenario when it comes to California. Car registration is a completely different kettle of fish. You're assuming that someone is going to register their car, for one. Considering CA emission standards, there's plenty of natural-born citizens who try to skirt that stuff with their ***-heap vehicles. They require Car insurance before testing on the vehicle you test in here in LA too :< not for the written, but youre required to show residency and legitimate live birth at that point (They wouldnt accept my birth certificate for whatever *** reason).
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By Shiva.Onorgul 2015-01-03 02:17:25
I borrowed a friend's car here in Ohio. I don't recall having to show insurance, but it did have to be in working order (no busted taillights, that sort of thing). I can't fathom CA having some regulation that would prevent me getting licensed simply because I don't own my own vehicle.
Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2015-01-03 02:24:42
That's true. ***, I considered it with my last car that couldn't pass the emissions test here in NV (I ultimately decided for an entirely new car.). Most people, including immigrants, will want to keep their car. This encompasses licensing and registration. Perhaps I'm filtering this through my own experiences but, yeah, you can get licensed without having a car. However, you're very likely going to have a car here that requires you to be, first, licensed and, secondly, have insurance.
By Enuyasha 2015-01-03 02:33:45
I borrowed a friend's car here in Ohio. I don't recall having to show insurance, but it did have to be in working order (no busted taillights, that sort of thing). I can't fathom CA having some regulation that would prevent me getting licensed simply because I don't own my own vehicle. The vehicle itself must be insured, doesnt actually matter if you own the car or not :< Like right now i could go get an E license in my mothers car as long as it has proof of insurance and registration (I think it has to be registered, not sure on that).
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 02:46:49
Fox News has been the leading newsentertainment media disguised as news, with talking heads outlet for almost a decade now. Keep up the crying, I'm sure it will get you somewhere. ftfy sir, carry on.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 02:47:54
Ragnarok.Leysritt said: »I don't wanna hear "its gonna make the roads safer" Well, since you're *** moron, it's not surprising that the bone-stupid logical explanation would fail to appease you.
Here's a nice conspiratorial explanation that should suit your reflex xenophobia: it'll let the government more easily track all those filthy illegals so they can round them up and load them into a cannon that shoots them into the Sun. Or, hey, by getting them into the system, maybe we can a.) drag them kicking and screaming into citizenship or b.) keep track of how much they're trying to leach from us and eventually present the bill or its equivalent in incarceration. I'm assuming you're in favor of locking up anyone who looks at you funny, much less who breaks the law.
You lost all of my respect with that huge insult hurl.
I'd rather the *** borders be maintained to prevent people from immigrating illegally, if someone tries to come in, you shoot them with either a non lethal round, a tranq dart so you can safely move them to a facility to explain their new situation, or my favorite, salt rounds.
Illegal immigration posts a huge threat to countries due to the fact that we don't know who these people are, what kind of diseases they carry (if they carry them.) or if they have some kind of affiliation with a cartel in a direct or indirect way.
Make a statement that people can no longer illegally cross the border, then it just becomes a matter of taking care of the interior.
If someone takes the time to pass through the legal citizenship process, I'd invite them over to welcome them, they at least had the decency to follow the laws. Whenever someone immigrated illegally, that's a slap in the real citizens' faces. What?
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 10:21:21
Ragnarok.Leysritt said: »I don't wanna hear "its gonna make the roads safer" Well, since you're *** moron, it's not surprising that the bone-stupid logical explanation would fail to appease you.
Here's a nice conspiratorial explanation that should suit your reflex xenophobia: it'll let the government more easily track all those filthy illegals so they can round them up and load them into a cannon that shoots them into the Sun. Or, hey, by getting them into the system, maybe we can a.) drag them kicking and screaming into citizenship or b.) keep track of how much they're trying to leach from us and eventually present the bill or its equivalent in incarceration. I'm assuming you're in favor of locking up anyone who looks at you funny, much less who breaks the law.
You lost all of my respect with that huge insult hurl.
I'd rather the *** borders be maintained to prevent people from immigrating illegally, if someone tries to come in, you shoot them with either a non lethal round, a tranq dart so you can safely move them to a facility to explain their new situation, or my favorite, salt rounds.
Illegal immigration posts a huge threat to countries due to the fact that we don't know who these people are, what kind of diseases they carry (if they carry them.) or if they have some kind of affiliation with a cartel in a direct or indirect way.
Make a statement that people can no longer illegally cross the border, then it just becomes a matter of taking care of the interior.
If someone takes the time to pass through the legal citizenship process, I'd invite them over to welcome them, they at least had the decency to follow the laws. Whenever someone immigrated illegally, that's a slap in the real citizens' faces. What? It means that he rather have somebody who wishes to not do harm to the US (either figuratively or physically) become a citizen through legal means than to have somebody unknown (in most cases to not do harm, but how are we to tell those that do against those who don't?).
See, here's how I see it. I don't care if you are an immigrant or not. I know of a few illegal immigrants who do day labor here in South Texas, because that's basically all the can do. I know that a good portion of these day laborers not only are living here illegally, but also continue to exist illegally (through tax evasion, mainly).
Most of us in the US abide by the law. To have these people here not only flaunt the law, but also flaunt the law in our faces on a daily basis is a great insult. I know you don't see it that way, because you are in the "think of the children" mode and cannot think rationally with your heart. But that's how it is portrayed.
Now, before you get into a snip fit and accuse businesses of allowing this, consider this: There is a 1099 requirement for contract labor, and the penalties are quite harsh, especially if IRS can prove (and they generally do) that you failed to file a 1099 to hide income for a person. However, nearly all businesses do not do this (or do not do this purposefully) because, in order to substantiate a contract labor expense, they issue 1099s to the contractors and prove it by showing their copies they maintain in an audit.
I have had to defend several businesses over my career who IRS were to disallow contract labor expense because the contractors refused to claim the income and pay the taxes on it. My response to the IRS is always the same: There is no regulation, nor there will ever be a regulation that forces a business who uses contract services to force the contract services into filing their tax return. And I reference the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as evidence of this.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 10:27:01
No I don't think of it that way because I'm not a moron. It may be different down in Texas, but there's a good many illegals up here, and I've yet to see any "flaunt the law."
I'll continue with my "what?" as it's just as ridiculous as when it was first asserted.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 10:34:11
but there's a good many illegals up here, and I've yet to see any "flaunt the law." Let me ask you this then.
How can you see that they aren't flaunting the law by remaining illegal immigrants?
Or are you saying that they are law-abiding citizens by remaining illegal?
How many of them even try to get legal citizenship?
No matter what you say, if you say any more than 1, you are wrong because there is no way they will try to get citizenship and run the huge risk of failing (most visas are only for specific professions, and not just general run-of-the-mill people) and then being deported because Immigration knows exactly where they are.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 10:39:37
but there's a good many illegals up here, and I've yet to see any "flaunt the law." Let me ask you this then.
How can you see that they aren't flaunting the law by remaining illegal immigrants?
Or are you saying that they are law-abiding citizens by remaining illegal?
How many of them even try to get legal citizenship?
No matter what you say, if you say any more than 1, you are wrong because there is no way they will try to get citizenship and run the huge risk of failing (most visas are only for specific professions, and not just general run-of-the-mill people) and then being deported because Immigration knows exactly where they are.
Because they aren't.
For starters: you're attributing all illegal aliens to purposeful "border hoppers" which is a gross lie in of itself.
I'll first ask a simple question: do you even know (on average) how long it takes to gain citizenship?
 Ragnarok.Leysritt
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By Ragnarok.Leysritt 2015-01-03 10:59:50
Ragnarok.Leysritt said: »I don't wanna hear "its gonna make the roads safer" Well, since you're *** moron, it's not surprising that the bone-stupid logical explanation would fail to appease you.
Here's a nice conspiratorial explanation that should suit your reflex xenophobia: it'll let the government more easily track all those filthy illegals so they can round them up and load them into a cannon that shoots them into the Sun. Or, hey, by getting them into the system, maybe we can a.) drag them kicking and screaming into citizenship or b.) keep track of how much they're trying to leach from us and eventually present the bill or its equivalent in incarceration. I'm assuming you're in favor of locking up anyone who looks at you funny, much less who breaks the law.
You lost all of my respect with that huge insult hurl.
I'd rather the *** borders be maintained to prevent people from immigrating illegally, if someone tries to come in, you shoot them with either a non lethal round, a tranq dart so you can safely move them to a facility to explain their new situation, or my favorite, salt rounds.
Illegal immigration posts a huge threat to countries due to the fact that we don't know who these people are, what kind of diseases they carry (if they carry them.) or if they have some kind of affiliation with a cartel in a direct or indirect way.
Make a statement that people can no longer illegally cross the border, then it just becomes a matter of taking care of the interior.
If someone takes the time to pass through the legal citizenship process, I'd invite them over to welcome them, they at least had the decency to follow the laws. Whenever someone immigrated illegally, that's a slap in the real citizens' faces. Because you know, that mindset is working. Not really, but people can dream right?
What you do is this: Stop treating every immigrant like theyre a walking bag of diseases and criminal intent and you end the main source of income for the drug cartels and limit their demand in the area where the demand is highest. You dont treat people answering the call of the american dream like animals because they struggle to get here (Which is the first part of that fabled dream, that if you struggle long and hard enough you will be better for it).
It is working, look at the amount of people wanting to cross to either north or south korea.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 11:51:13
For starters: you're attributing all illegal aliens to purposeful "border hoppers" which is a gross lie in of itself. No, you are the one attributing that, not me.
I know that a significant number of people who are considered illegal immigrants are visitors who's on expired visas.
I also know that a significant number of people also cross the border who never even attempted to get a visa. Most recent GAO report on illegal crossing deaths show that in a 10 year span, deaths have more than doubled. Mind you, this report is from 1995-2005, and there hasn't been a study (that I know of) that shows updated numbers.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060722/images/border.pdf
(Although this graph is dated, it still shows that a very significant number of people each year cross the border illegally. This graph only records people who were caught or died)
There is no reliable source that shows the number of people crossing the border except these two. The reason is that illegal immigration is a problem mostly ignored by everyone who's not a border state of Mexico.
I forgive you that your knowledge of illegal crossings is very limited. I hope this shows at least some idea of the magnitude of the issue.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 11:59:17
I'll first ask a simple question: do you even know (on average) how long it takes to gain citizenship? People have said between 13-25 years.
However, it only takes 45 days to get a Green Card, which enables the immigrant to be, you know, legal while waiting for their application to be approved.
You know why illegal immigrants don't even get a green card? Because there is a good chance that they will be denied and then shipped back to their old home. They rather take the chance of living here for a very long time than to try to be a legal citizen but get denied because they don't qualify for citizenship.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Zerowone
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By Lakshmi.Zerowone 2015-01-03 12:25:21
I saw this thread I said hmmm this sounds like troll bait.
Read the article OP posted and yep troll bait with a hint of intentional misleading/lack of thorough reading.
Quote: Immigrant advocates have cheered the licenses as a way to integrate immigrants who must drive to work and shuttle children to school, though the cards will include a distinctive marking and are not considered valid federal identification.
Which makes total sense since its saying you have paid the tax to drive in the state.
[+]
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 12:35:41
For starters: you're attributing all illegal aliens to purposeful "border hoppers" which is a gross lie in of itself. No, you are the one attributing that, not me.
I know that a significant number of people who are considered illegal immigrants are visitors who's on expired visas.
I also know that a significant number of people also cross the border who never even attempted to get a visa. Most recent GAO report on illegal crossing deaths show that in a 10 year span, deaths have more than doubled. Mind you, this report is from 1995-2005, and there hasn't been a study (that I know of) that shows updated numbers.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060722/images/border.pdf
(Although this graph is dated, it still shows that a very significant number of people each year cross the border illegally. This graph only records people who were caught or died)
There is no reliable source that shows the number of people crossing the border except these two. The reason is that illegal immigration is a problem mostly ignored by everyone who's not a border state of Mexico.
I forgive you that your knowledge of illegal crossings is very limited. I hope this shows at least some idea of the magnitude of the issue. No it was you, and I know you're aware of it.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 12:38:51
I'll first ask a simple question: do you even know (on average) how long it takes to gain citizenship? People have said between 13-25 years.
However, it only takes 45 days to get a Green Card, which enables the immigrant to be, you know, legal while waiting for their application to be approved.
You know why illegal immigrants don't even get a green card? Because there is a good chance that they will be denied and then shipped back to their old home. They rather take the chance of living here for a very long time than to try to be a legal citizen but get denied because they don't qualify for citizenship.
Yeah, and you see nothing wrong with that scenario.
By Blazed1979 2015-01-03 13:12:21
-"I promise you, the president has a big stick..."
-awkward pause
-"I promise you..."
This quote is priceless.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-01-03 19:50:45
I wish I could comment on U.S. immigration policy, but the time the sun sets each day has more impact on my life now, so I honestly can't think of anything remotely meaningful. I really wanted to say something, but I have more experience of being an immigrant around the world than in the U.S.
I think after 225+ years of looking for the world's tired, poor, and huddled masses yearning to be free, the U.S. has become an entire country of just that.
There you go :P
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 19:52:41
For starters: you're attributing all illegal aliens to purposeful "border hoppers" which is a gross lie in of itself. No, you are the one attributing that, not me.
I know that a significant number of people who are considered illegal immigrants are visitors who's on expired visas.
I also know that a significant number of people also cross the border who never even attempted to get a visa. Most recent GAO report on illegal crossing deaths show that in a 10 year span, deaths have more than doubled. Mind you, this report is from 1995-2005, and there hasn't been a study (that I know of) that shows updated numbers.
http://www.utsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060722/images/border.pdf
(Although this graph is dated, it still shows that a very significant number of people each year cross the border illegally. This graph only records people who were caught or died)
There is no reliable source that shows the number of people crossing the border except these two. The reason is that illegal immigration is a problem mostly ignored by everyone who's not a border state of Mexico.
I forgive you that your knowledge of illegal crossings is very limited. I hope this shows at least some idea of the magnitude of the issue. No it was you, and I know you're aware of it. I'll first ask a simple question: do you even know (on average) how long it takes to gain citizenship? People have said between 13-25 years.
However, it only takes 45 days to get a Green Card, which enables the immigrant to be, you know, legal while waiting for their application to be approved.
You know why illegal immigrants don't even get a green card? Because there is a good chance that they will be denied and then shipped back to their old home. They rather take the chance of living here for a very long time than to try to be a legal citizen but get denied because they don't qualify for citizenship.
Yeah, and you see nothing wrong with that scenario. I answered both of your issues and all you have to retort is "no u!"?
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 20:10:50
It was one question.
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By Asura.Kingnobody 2015-01-03 21:02:55
Who said they were questions again?
I said issues. You first accused me of lumping all illegals as border hoppers, and then you asked me how long on average does an illegal become a citizen. Which is a stupid question because when a immigrant gets their green card, they cease to become an "illegal" immigrant.
I'm sorry that your knowledge of immigration laws is very limited, it's probably because you don't have to deal with these things, but to profess knowledge when you have none.....is average for you.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 21:16:11
Who said they were questions again?
I said issues. You first accused me of lumping all illegals as border hoppers, and then you asked me how long on average does an illegal become a citizen. Which is a stupid question because when a immigrant gets their green card, they cease to become an "illegal" immigrant.
I'm sorry that your knowledge of immigration laws is very limited, it's probably because you don't have to deal with these things, but to profess knowledge when you have none.....is average for you.
And pretending you've won when you haven't is your MO.
Your idea of an "answer" is slewed as well, just an fyi. I didn't accuse you of lumping illegals together, it was a mere observation of what you did, and again it's willfully dishonest.
If you understood immigration law as well as you profess you would comprehend that the entire system is ***.
VIP
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By Odin.Jassik 2015-01-03 21:37:16
I'll first ask a simple question: do you even know (on average) how long it takes to gain citizenship? People have said between 13-25 years.
However, it only takes 45 days to get a Green Card, which enables the immigrant to be, you know, legal while waiting for their application to be approved.
You know why illegal immigrants don't even get a green card? Because there is a good chance that they will be denied and then shipped back to their old home. They rather take the chance of living here for a very long time than to try to be a legal citizen but get denied because they don't qualify for citizenship.
I get a really good laugh out of you calling people out for not knowing immigration laws while rattling off false information.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2015-01-03 21:50:18
I get a really good laugh out of reading political threads in general.
By Jetackuu 2015-01-03 21:51:21
I get a really good laugh out of reading political threads in general. We know.
California on Friday will start taking driver's license applications from the nation's largest population of immigrants in the country illegally.
The state Department of Motor Vehicles expects 1.4 million people will seek a license in the first three years of a program aimed at boosting road safety and making immigrants' lives easier.
California officials say they can't predict how many people will line up immediately to apply, but the number of people making appointments for a license more than doubled when immigrants were allowed to sign up. Appointments are required to apply for a license except at four newly-created DMV offices.
California is one of 10 states that now provide licenses to immigrants in the country illegally. The licenses issued to immigrants without legal status will include a distinctive marking and are not considered a valid form of federal identification.
Immigrants in the country illegally have not been allowed to apply for a driver's license in California since the state began requiring proof of legal presence during the 1990s.
Immigrant advocates have cheered the licenses as a way to integrate immigrants who must drive to work and shuttle children to school. But critics have questioned state officials' ability to verify the identity of foreign applicants, citing security concerns.
Law enforcement officials say the program will improve road safety because licensed drivers must be tested and insured. A DMV study of 23 years of crash data found that unlicensed drivers were more likely to cause a fatal collision than licensed drivers.
State insurance officials hope the change will increase the number of drivers holding auto insurance, though some immigrants say they have always held insurance even though they could not get a license.
Maritza Aguirre, 30, is one of them. She used to take a two-hour bus trip to work cleaning houses in driving-dependent Southern California. Now, she drives but lacks a license and fears her car might be impounded if she is ever stopped by police.
"For me, honestly, it is a blessing," said Aguirre, who has an appointment this week to apply for a license. "The relief of knowing they won't take your car is a big advantage."
Advocates have encouraged immigrants to seek the license. But they are warning those with deportation orders or criminal records to first seek legal advice since law enforcement can access DMV data.
Applicants must submit proof of identity and state residency and pass written and road tests. Those who don't possess foreign government-issued identification on a list of approved documents can be interviewed by a DMV investigator to see if they qualify.
Starting on Friday, immigrants who pass the initial hurdles will get a driving permit. But they must return for a driving test before they can get the new licenses, which will be marked with the words "federal limits apply."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/immigrants-seek-california-driver-licenses-27956594
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