Random Politics & Religion #00

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Random Politics & Religion #00
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-21 13:32:24
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Yeah, sure, let's just throw on another tax. The government is already wasteful, so let's just throw more money at them instead of fixing the problem at the source. I'm sure they'll use it right this time!

The highway fund is directly funded by gas taxes. There aren't enough inspectors, it's plagued by poorly run private contractors, and the funding hasn't been increased in 20 years. The standard TP taglines don't apply.

So what? The government is incapable of directing money to the highway fund from other taxes?

With already massive deficits, you'd expect them to channel money AWAY from already underfunded things to the highway fund rather than raising one of the most successful programs in US history? The highway fund is one of the few taxes that the right used to champion. It's a direct usage tax, pays almost exclusively to the private sector, and benefit corporations immensely.

Your standard response to everything tax related simply doesn't apply. It's childish to advocate against it and demonstrates just how destructive and immature the TP platform is.

I don't give a crap about the TP platform. Also, no, I don't expect them to channel money away from underfunded things. I expect them to channel money away from the mass of bloated, useless things that they waste billions of dollars on annually. Don't pretend that those don't exist.

Easiest thing to say, hardest thing to actually do.

There's a point where austerity becomes cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So, we shouldn't do it because it's hard? Alright, I'll just let them take even more money directly from my wallet because they're not willing to try.
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By Jassik 2015-10-21 13:34:05
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Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »

I don't give a crap about the TP platform. Also, no, I don't expect them to channel money away from underfunded things. I expect them to channel money away from the mass of bloated, useless things that they waste billions of dollars on annually. Don't pretend that those don't exist.

Can you provide realistic examples of cuts that would equal the amount of revenue generated by a federal gas tax?

There's plenty, actually, but the most wasteful are the ones nobody want's to cut: defense and corporate welfare.

Bahamut.Ravael said: »
So, we shouldn't do it because it's hard? Alright, I'll just let them take even more money directly from my wallet because they're not willing to try.

Sorry, but that's just old tired bullhockey that the right has been pushing for 30+ years. And while everyone is "trying", another 20 years has passed and the state of our infrastructure has only gotten worse. It's past time. A temporary small increase in the gas tax with the sunset stipulation that the deficit must be funded from other funding before the tax is reduced is that absolute minimum we need right now in order to avoid serious ramifications.
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 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-21 13:36:19
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Jassik said: »
Shiva.Viciousss said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »

I don't give a crap about the TP platform. Also, no, I don't expect them to channel money away from underfunded things. I expect them to channel money away from the mass of bloated, useless things that they waste billions of dollars on annually. Don't pretend that those don't exist.

Can you provide realistic examples of cuts that would equal the amount of revenue generated by a federal gas tax?

There's plenty, actually, but the most wasteful are the ones nobody want's to cut: defense and corporate welfare.

I'm not agenda-driven in that regard. I'd be happy cutting government waste across the board. Note, though, that this does not mean just funneling funds away, it means actually restructuring how a lot of these programs use money in the first place.
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-10-21 13:37:08
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Yeah, sure, let's just throw on another tax. The government is already wasteful, so let's just throw more money at them instead of fixing the problem at the source. I'm sure they'll use it right this time!

The highway fund is directly funded by gas taxes. There aren't enough inspectors, it's plagued by poorly run private contractors, and the funding hasn't been increased in 20 years. The standard TP taglines don't apply.

So what? The government is incapable of directing money to the highway fund from other taxes?

With already massive deficits, you'd expect them to channel money AWAY from already underfunded things to the highway fund rather than raising one of the most successful programs in US history? The highway fund is one of the few taxes that the right used to champion. It's a direct usage tax, pays almost exclusively to the private sector, and benefit corporations immensely.

Your standard response to everything tax related simply doesn't apply. It's childish to advocate against it and demonstrates just how destructive and immature the TP platform is.

I don't give a crap about the TP platform. Also, no, I don't expect them to channel money away from underfunded things. I expect them to channel money away from the mass of bloated, useless things that they waste billions of dollars on annually. Don't pretend that those don't exist.

Easiest thing to say, hardest thing to actually do.

There's a point where austerity becomes cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So, we shouldn't do it because it's hard? Alright, I'll just let them take even more money directly from my wallet because they're not willing to try.

It's not about trying. Cuts get political quickly which only hamstring the whole attempt to I dunno.. fix roads.

Shitty roads and patchwork jobs are costing us a fortune for things that will need to be again paid for in the future. The gas tax isn't tied to inflation IIRC and with more efficient cars, you get less revenue to do the work.

The economically sensible thing to do is spend money upfront rather than be forced to pay huge amounts because we let things drag out. If you're talking about saving money. It's already been mentioned how vital roads are to interstate commerce and economic development.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-21 13:40:10
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My only problem with infrastructure development taxes is the misguided belief that they should all come from gas taxes just because, derp, it's easy. The money is already there, it's just being spent in other places by idiots.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-21 13:42:52
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Meanwhile in jews news Netanyahu managed to make everyone equally mad

Quote:
Prime minister tells World Zionist Congress that Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews, but Jerusalem's Grand Mufti convinced him to exterminate them, a claim that was rejected by most accepted Holocaust scholars.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked public uproar when on Wednesday he claimed that the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was the one who planted the idea of the extermination of European Jewry in Adolf Hitler's mind. The Nazi ruler, Netanyahu said, had no intention of killing the Jews, but only to expel them.

In a speech before the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem, Netanyahu described a meeting between Husseini and Hitler in November, 1941: "Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jew. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here (to Palestine).' According to Netanyahu, Hitler then asked: "What should I do with them?" and the mufti replied: "Burn them."

Netanyahu's remarks were quick to spark a social media storm, though Netanyahu made a similar claim during a Knesset speech in 2012, where he described the Husseini as "one of the leading architects" of the final solution.

The claim that Husseini was the one to initiate the extermination of European Jewry had been suggested by a number of historians at the fringes of Holocaust research, but was rejected by most accepted scholars.

The argument concerning Husseini's role was recently mentioned in a book by Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz, "Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East." The authors, like Netanyahu, draw a straight line between the mufti's support of Hitler and the policy of the Palestinian Liberation Organization under Yasser Arafat.

But even these two researchers do not claim that the dialogue described by Netanyahu ever took place. They say Hitler reached the conclusion to exterminate the Jews because of his desire to nurture Husseini, who opposed the transfer of Jews to pre-state Israel.
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By Jassik 2015-10-21 13:45:40
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
My only problem with infrastructure development taxes is the misguided belief that they should all come from gas taxes just because, derp, it's easy. The money is already there, it's just being spent in other places by idiots.

No, the national highway fund is directly funded by gas taxes and spent on the nations roadways. That's really all there is to it. It's been borrowed from to cover deficits in the past when there was surplus, but so has virtually every other solvent fund. When we did have discrectionary surpluses in the 90's and early 2000's, rather than pay back some of the money that had been borrowed from those funds or pay down the national debt or invest in infrastructure, they decided to just give everyone 300 bucks and cut some taxes. Now, we're paying for it, yet again.

And, Sparth is correct, the highway fund is not adjusted for inflation and CAFE standards were known in advance to cause it to be a diminishing value. It's effectively gone down by about 50% in the last 20 years while virtually everything else in the world has gone up.
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-10-21 13:49:03
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Meanwhile in jews news Netanyahu managed to make everyone equally mad

Quote:
Prime minister tells World Zionist Congress that Hitler only wanted to expel the Jews, but Jerusalem's Grand Mufti convinced him to exterminate them, a claim that was rejected by most accepted Holocaust scholars.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sparked public uproar when on Wednesday he claimed that the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, was the one who planted the idea of the extermination of European Jewry in Adolf Hitler's mind. The Nazi ruler, Netanyahu said, had no intention of killing the Jews, but only to expel them.

In a speech before the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem, Netanyahu described a meeting between Husseini and Hitler in November, 1941: "Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jew. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here (to Palestine).' According to Netanyahu, Hitler then asked: "What should I do with them?" and the mufti replied: "Burn them."

Netanyahu's remarks were quick to spark a social media storm, though Netanyahu made a similar claim during a Knesset speech in 2012, where he described the Husseini as "one of the leading architects" of the final solution.

The claim that Husseini was the one to initiate the extermination of European Jewry had been suggested by a number of historians at the fringes of Holocaust research, but was rejected by most accepted scholars.

The argument concerning Husseini's role was recently mentioned in a book by Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz, "Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East." The authors, like Netanyahu, draw a straight line between the mufti's support of Hitler and the policy of the Palestinian Liberation Organization under Yasser Arafat.

But even these two researchers do not claim that the dialogue described by Netanyahu ever took place. They say Hitler reached the conclusion to exterminate the Jews because of his desire to nurture Husseini, who opposed the transfer of Jews to pre-state Israel.

Jews. Nothing but trouble.......for these P&R threads.
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-21 14:02:14
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Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
My only problem with infrastructure development taxes is the misguided belief that they should all come from gas taxes just because, derp, it's easy. The money is already there, it's just being spent in other places by idiots.

No, the national highway fund is directly funded by gas taxes and spent on the nations roadways. That's really all there is to it. It's been borrowed from to cover deficits in the past when there was surplus, but so has virtually every other solvent fund. When we did have discrectionary surpluses in the 90's and early 2000's, rather than pay back some of the money that had been borrowed from those funds or pay down the national debt or invest in infrastructure, they decided to just give everyone 300 bucks and cut some taxes. Now, we're paying for it, yet again.

And, Sparth is correct, the highway fund is not adjusted for inflation and CAFE standards were known in advance to cause it to be a diminishing value. It's effectively gone down by about 50% in the last 20 years while virtually everything else in the world has gone up.

No, I meant that the money is already there in the government as a whole and being spent wastefully in other programs. I could have worded that better.
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By Jassik 2015-10-21 14:05:14
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Maybe, but we already have a very fair mechanism in place to pay for those expenses that has been neglected for 2 decades. I'd rather convert a lot more programs to usage taxes than try and restructure the whole government and pray that bridges don't collapse in the mean time.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-21 14:09:44
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Yeah Ravael How many trillion dollars could they possibly steal?
/throws bags of money out the window
We can just keep throwing trillions of dollars at it until they choke on the money...statistically speaking some of it will eventually trickle down to a hooker with a live in boyfriend that is an out of work bridge construction foreman and then... whammy!

problem solved

<american eagle screech>
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 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2015-10-21 14:16:21
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Bald Eagles don't even screech!

(Hawks do.)
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-21 14:17:57
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YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-21 14:19:01
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in your face jablonski!!!!
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By Ramyrez 2015-10-21 14:27:42
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Yeah, but too bad the Bald Eagle's cry is frequently dubbed with a Red Tailed Hawk.

Quote:
Few sounds symbolize American patriotism like the piercing shrill of a bald eagle. But just like George Washington and his cherry tree, that majestic call … is a myth. The screech associated with the bald eagle, in fact, belongs to a different bird.

Bird expert Connie Stanger blames Hollywood. You know the scene:

Stanger describes it: “You’ve got John Wayne riding through the sunset and you hear the jingle of spurs and often that piercing, loud cry.”

It's a cry that’s synonymous with America’s national bird. But there’s a problem says Stanger, who works at the World Center for Birds of Prey in Boise. If you were to look up at the bird making that sound in real life you wouldn’t see a bald eagle.

“They dub over it with a red tailed hawk’s cry,” Stanger says.
“Unfortunately for the bald eagle, it has like a little cackling type of a laugh that’s not really very impressive for the bird,” Stanger explains.

Stanger says one other thing you might not know about the bird that symbolizes American strength — most of the images you see are of the female of the species, which are bigger than the males.
 Bahamut.Ravael
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By Bahamut.Ravael 2015-10-21 14:30:19
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Pfft, only Communist bald eagles get dubbed over by inferior birds.
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2015-10-21 14:31:38
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When I'll have my own nation our symbol will be the hummingbird which is much more awesome.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-21 14:34:14
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and that kids is why you never ever ever believe anything that anyone tells you on any subject.

because they are all lying to you because they just can't help themselves.
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 Bahamut.Milamber
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By Bahamut.Milamber 2015-10-21 14:35:28
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Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »

Jews. Nothing but trouble.......for these P&R threads.
In somewhat related news, ran across this today.
https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/enforcement/oac
Quote:
Antiboycott Laws:

During the mid-1970's the United States adopted two laws that seek to counteract the participation of U.S. citizens in other nation's economic boycotts or embargoes. These "antiboycott" laws are the 1977 amendments to the Export Administration Act (EAA) and the Ribicoff Amendment to the 1976 Tax Reform Act (TRA). While these laws share a common purpose, there are distinctions in their administration.

Objectives:

The antiboycott laws were adopted to encourage, and in specified cases, require U.S. firms to refuse to participate in foreign boycotts that the United States does not sanction. They have the effect of preventing U.S. firms from being used to implement foreign policies of other nations which run counter to U.S. policy.

Primary Impact:

The Arab League boycott of Israel is the principal foreign economic boycott that U.S. companies must be concerned with today. The antiboycott laws, however, apply to all boycotts imposed by foreign countries that are unsanctioned by the United States.
Discuss?
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-10-21 14:37:14
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Sometimes, I look in on this thread and realize I created a monster. It's like a child; in the beginning I was proud, it was cute even when it was irritating.... But it grew up and became an insurance salesman and married a chain-smoking stripper whose ovaries are too shrivled from doing hard drugs to ever give you grandchildren.

Sometimes I weep.
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By Odin.Slore 2015-10-21 14:39:09
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Bahamut.Ravael said: »
Jassik said: »
Bahamut.Ravael said: »
My only problem with infrastructure development taxes is the misguided belief that they should all come from gas taxes just because, derp, it's easy. The money is already there, it's just being spent in other places by idiots.

No, the national highway fund is directly funded by gas taxes and spent on the nations roadways. That's really all there is to it. It's been borrowed from to cover deficits in the past when there was surplus, but so has virtually every other solvent fund. When we did have discrectionary surpluses in the 90's and early 2000's, rather than pay back some of the money that had been borrowed from those funds or pay down the national debt or invest in infrastructure, they decided to just give everyone 300 bucks and cut some taxes. Now, we're paying for it, yet again.

And, Sparth is correct, the highway fund is not adjusted for inflation and CAFE standards were known in advance to cause it to be a diminishing value. It's effectively gone down by about 50% in the last 20 years while virtually everything else in the world has gone up.

No, I meant that the money is already there in the government as a whole and being spent wastefully in other programs. I could have worded that better.

Social Security would like to say hello.
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By Jassik 2015-10-21 14:42:46
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Anna Ruthven said: »
Sometimes, I look in on this thread and realize I created a monster. It's like a child; in the beginning I was proud, it was cute even when it was irritating.... But it grew up and became an insurance salesman and married a chain-smoking stripper whose ovaries are too shrivled from doing hard drugs to ever give you grandchildren.

Sometimes I weep.

It's been one of the more successful long running threads. You might have created it, but it was my idea, homeslice.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-10-21 14:45:35
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Jassik said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Sometimes, I look in on this thread and realize I created a monster. It's like a child; in the beginning I was proud, it was cute even when it was irritating.... But it grew up and became an insurance salesman and married a chain-smoking stripper whose ovaries are too shrivled from doing hard drugs to ever give you grandchildren.

Sometimes I weep.

It's been one of the more successful long running threads. You might have created it, but it was my idea, homeslice.
I thought I made it to cut down on OPs constantly asking for people to be topic banned. Either way, my mother was right about you, you're a terrible thread-father.
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By Jassik 2015-10-21 14:46:35
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Anna Ruthven said: »
Jassik said: »
Anna Ruthven said: »
Sometimes, I look in on this thread and realize I created a monster. It's like a child; in the beginning I was proud, it was cute even when it was irritating.... But it grew up and became an insurance salesman and married a chain-smoking stripper whose ovaries are too shrivled from doing hard drugs to ever give you grandchildren.

Sometimes I weep.

It's been one of the more successful long running threads. You might have created it, but it was my idea, homeslice.
I thought I made it to cut down on OPs constantly asking for people to be topic banned. Either way, my mother was right about you, you're a terrible thread-father.

I suggested it in a thread when that issue was brought up, then a user made the thread and proceeded to ask for topic bans, lol.
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2015-10-21 14:51:49
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nobody likes a one upper
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By Ramyrez 2015-10-21 16:01:44
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Shiva.Nikolce said: »
nobody likes a one upper

A handful of uppers, however...

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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2015-10-21 16:20:30
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Biden is so creepy

http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aDmPQQG_460sv.mp4
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By Phoenix.Amandarius 2015-10-21 16:31:31
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Valefor.Sehachan said: »
When I'll have my own nation our symbol will be the hummingbird which is much more awesome.

YouTube Video Placeholder


Just an adorbs video of a hummingbird snoring.
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By Anna Ruthven 2015-10-21 16:33:20
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Bismarck.Dracondria said: »
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By Garuda.Chanti 2015-10-21 17:07:46
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Phoenix.Amandarius said: »
BS about gas tax.
Trucking Industry Pleads With Congress To Raise Gas Taxes
HuffPo 06/18/2015

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- There’s an easy solution to stop the federal highway fund from going broke at the end of July, the head of the American Trucking Associations told Congress Wednesday -- raise the gas tax.

Bill Graves, the Republican former governor of Kansas, delivered that message in testimony to the House Ways and Means Committee, telling lawmakers at the long-awaited hearing on fixing the highway fund that eventually, whether they want to or not, they’ll have to hike the tax.

“Congress must find the courage to admit what I believe it already knows,” Graves said after explaining why his industry -- which paid more than $16 billion in fuel taxes in 2013 -- believes paying even more tax is the best option.

Graves also noted that -- like six states this year -- he raised the Kansas gas tax when he was governor by explaining clearly to state residents why it had to be done. "It was, I confess, a little easier than I thought it would be," he said.

At the root of the problem, he said, is that the federal tax of 18.4 cents a gallon (24.4 cents for diesel) hasn't been raised since 1993, and it has failed to keep up with inflation, leaving Congress to find ad-hoc methods to keep the fund solvent with short-term cash infusions.

The funding uncertainty causes delays in construction projects and raises costs, even as many infrastructure experts believe not enough is being spent on transportation to begin with.

Graves and other witnesses Wednesday ran through a number of other ways to fund roads and bridges, including tolls, taxes on miles driven, oil taxes, public-private partnerships, or just funding highways out of the general revenue fund.

Graves said all of those options have flaws. Tolls are uneven and inefficient; accurately taxing mileage on hundreds of millions of vehicles still isn’t practical; taxing oil has several downsides; partnerships have proven to be a mixed bag, and scrapping the gas tax in favor of annual appropriations creates even more uncertainty than already exits, he said.

Wednesday’s hearing sounded all too familiar, Graves added, because many of the ideas had been proposed the last time the fuel tax was raised, and lawmakers declared the nation had to find better ways to fund transportation projects.

“Today’s conversation has been taking place for 22 years and I believe it’s time for Congress to acknowledge in the near term that the fuel tax continues to be the lesser of all the infrastructure funding evils,” Graves said. “I believe it’s the only funding option that makes sense.”

Congress has passed 34 stopgap measures to keep the fund operating while failing to find that mythical new way to pay for construction.

“Roads and Bridges aren’t free, and they’re certainly not cheap, yet Congress has been operating under the assumption that pennies might fall from heaven,” Graves said.

“We know the fuel tax works,” he added. “It would continue to be viable for years if the rate were raised.”

Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) flatly rejected the idea.

“We’re not going to raise the gas tax,” Ryan said.

Still, Graves wasn’t deterred.

“The whole business community has conveyed the message that they would support a fuel tax increase,” Graves said just after the hearing ended. “Many members of Congress have said, thank you, but we’re not interested in that approach, we’re going to try other, as I said, outside-the-box thinking, creating financing options. It feels like we’re getting close to the point where they’re starting to realize that those just don’t exist as many of them hoped they would.”

If Congress continues with the stopgap approach, it will have to come up with about $3 billion more this year, said Chad Shirley of the Congressional Budget Office. Next year, the tab would be $11 billion from the general tax funds, and the price tag would hit $22 billion by 2025.

A bipartisan group of lawmakers has proposed fixing the shortfall simply by indexing the gas tax to inflation, as well as adding a one-time up-front payment, but Ryan appeared to foreclose that option Wednesday.
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