Random Politics & Religion #00 |
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Random Politics & Religion #00
I remember hearing Biden was always the best golfer on Capitol Hill.
Its seems the "happiness" of those "leftopaths", that saw in the Greece referendum the victory against the "humillation" imposed by capitalism, didnt last enough to make those "valiants" even more radiant...
Tsipras learned the hard way that ideology will never win against reality. And if his comical referendum was a "NO" to austherity, his panties was a big "YES" to all austherity measures imposed to Greece by Euro. Unfortunelly, there is no honor when there is no money. And Im not saying if euro decision was the wrong or right decision. But regardless of the matter, if the Leftopaths decide something, normally they are wrong, and everyone (right, left, center, no political alignment) will pay for those error. And normally a high price. I will not comment on whether agreeing to Germany's terms is right or wrong, but what is the point of holding a referendum if you then proceed to ignore its results? People are quite mad at Tsipras now.
Talking about lefthopaths in a R&P thread, what about the religious side of the left party?
Pope Franscisco has a huge amount of symphatizer due his simple and honest way. He seems a pope more aligned to spiritual matter than political. But unfortunelly, one side not very knowed about pope Francisco is his left tendency. Like this obscene photo: ![]() This photo is simply disgusting, a bad joke. Comunism was never sympathetic to catolicism. Comunists always saw their dictators above god actually. Traditionally, Communists regimes are atheist in practice.
I don't know if leaving the Eurozone would have been the right move but Greece had nothing to lose by doing so.
Leaving the Euro would have given Greece an outside shot at pulling an Argentina and getting their economy together again post-default. New debt payments will only ensure recovery becomes even more remote. In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) but apparently it was Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland that REALLY pushed a hard line; if Greece had been allowed to negotiate better terms, the people of those countries would start asking tough questions about why their own leaders weren't. ScaevolaBahamut said: » I don't know if leaving the Eurozone would have been the right move but Greece had nothing to lose by doing so. Leaving the Euro would have given Greece an outside shot at pulling an Argentina and getting their economy together again post-default. New debt payments will only ensure recovery becomes even more remote. In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) but apparently it was Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland that REALLY pushed a hard line; if Greece had been allowed to negotiate better terms, the people of those countries would start asking tough questions about why their own leaders weren't. Well Greece imports virtually everything, leaving the euro will take a heavy toll on consumer goods prices. As for Germany being the bad guy, they're only the bad guy because it allows the countries that share their viewpoint to be less vocal. If Germany wasn't playing bad cop, other countries would be. The media is doing a decent job of not painting them as heartless number crunchers at least. fonewear said: » Basically we don't want our public officials to play golf. Play a manly sport like football or rugby ! Or work 7 days a week like alot of our work force does. Lead by example. Oh wait, he wants 29-32 hour work weeks never mind. fonewear said: » Nixon never loses he just quits ! Research will tell you why he resigned rather than face impeachment. Hillary and the other democrats wanted to drag his impeachment thru-out the presidential election to damage the republican image. Funny she is now crying about almost the same thing. How karma works. ScaevolaBahamut said: » I don't know if leaving the Eurozone would have been the right move but Greece had nothing to lose by doing so. Leaving the Euro would have given Greece an outside shot at pulling an Argentina and getting their economy together again post-default. New debt payments will only ensure recovery becomes even more remote. In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) but apparently it was Spain, Portugal, Italy, and Ireland that REALLY pushed a hard line; if Greece had been allowed to negotiate better terms, the people of those countries would start asking tough questions about why their own leaders weren't. Greece has been decades in the making of these issues. Argentina is not doing well and is having trouble attracting foreign investment because they have a historical record of defaulting on their obligations and not honoring past agreements. They've defaulted twice in the last 15 years. The countries that you listed as pushing a hard line are countries who've been forced to take responsiblity for their actions (poor portugal did everything they were supposed to do -according to EU debt terms- and got screwed on the bond market) and live with the consequences. Greece has been trying to wriggle out of all their consequences for 7 years while placing the EU (countries in the euro and those with currencies tied to the euro) in a precarious position. As for not gaining anything by being in the EU, really? Free movement of goods, services, and people is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention the trade agreements they are apart of that they would never have been able to bargain for had they not been apart of the total 500 million+ consumers that the EU contains. Oh, and who is propping those Greek banks up? That would be the rest of the EU since their banks are basically out of cash. They should frankly be kicked from the EU, in my opinion. They lied to get into the EU and they have continued to try and wriggle out of their obligations. Could in 10-20 years time Greece do better than the eurozone? Perhaps, but their history of financial decisions seems to indicate otherwise. ScaevolaBahamut said: » In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) There are many other countries that were in as bad (or worse) financial situations. They took measures (sometimes economically painful) to address their situations, and are almost universally improved against their original starting points. Greece didn't. There's a difference between extending aid to someone that is actively trying to improve their condition, and extending aid to someone who is simply frittering away the money. This would be the third time they have received financial support. What is interesting is how exactly the Greek PM will be able to internally sell agreeing to a worse deal than was rejected in the referendum last week. Quote: “London-based pressure group Jubilee Debt Campaign, which has studied the fate of heavily indebted countries around the world, says Greece is right to demand a more generous approach from its creditors, because although it has received an extraordinary €252bn in bailouts since 2010, just 10% of that has found its way into public spending. Much of the rest poured straight back out of the country: in debt repayments and interest to its creditors, many of them banks and hedge funds in the core eurozone countries, including Germany and France; and in sweeteners to persuade lenders to sign up to the 2012 bond restructuring that helped prevent the country crashing out of the euro. In effect, the “troika” of the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the European commission has simply replaced the banks and the hedge funds as Greece’s paymasters. The country’s overall debt burden has actually increased in the almost five years since it was first “rescued”, and of the amount still outstanding, 78% is now owed to public sector institutions, primarily the EU.” Bahamut.Kara said: » They lied to get into the EU Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » They lied to get into the EU Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis Quote: In dozens of deals across the Continent, banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books. Greece, for example, traded away the rights to airport fees and lottery proceeds in years to come. Reached agreement for Iran's nuclear programme and all sanctions have also been lifted
Link to article Israel is mad! Bahamut.Kara said: » Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » They lied to get into the EU Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis Quote: In dozens of deals across the Continent, banks provided cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books. Greece, for example, traded away the rights to airport fees and lottery proceeds in years to come. Bahamut.Milamber said: » ScaevolaBahamut said: » In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) There are many other countries that were in as bad (or worse) financial situations. They took measures (sometimes economically painful) to address their situations, and are almost universally improved against their original starting points. Greece didn't. There's a difference between extending aid to someone that is actively trying to improve their condition, and extending aid to someone who is simply frittering away the money. This would be the third time they have received financial support. What is interesting is how exactly the Greek PM will be able to internally sell agreeing to a worse deal than was rejected in the referendum last week. the term is 'enabling' Substantially raise minimum wage and cut welfare benefits.
Interesting concept being floated here definitely worth a try. Phoenix.Amandarius said: » Substantially raise minimum wage and cut welfare benefits. Interesting concept being floated here definitely worth a try. What people have been promoting here for years, the UK does it and it's an "interesting concept?" Valefor.Sehachan said: » Reached agreement for Iran's nuclear programme and all sanctions have also been lifted Link to article Israel is mad! Quote: Russia's President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that the six powers that reached the Iranian nuclear deal made a firm choice in favor of stability and cooperation. "The world can now breathe a sigh of relief," Putin said in a statement on the Kremlin website. "Despite attempts to justify scenarios based on force, the negotiators have made a firm choice in favor of stability and cooperation." Putin added that the deal will help Russian-Iranian civilian nuclear cooperation and will contribute to combating terrorism in the Middle East. Hey guise. Obama has brought peace to the middle east.
Oh what a legacy. Trusting the Iranians on nukes is like trusting Paula dean to make it without butter. While we are on the topic a few of important things first:
The decission last sunday was about wether there is a basis to start negotiations on a 3rd bailout or not. This basis requires some 'prior actions' which serve to rebuild trust which must be implemented tomorrow by the Greek parliament. What is declared as Germany's terms is in fact the stance of 15 EZ countries (out of 19) as confirmed by Renzi (Italy's PM) today. The softer line supporter were France, Italy, Cyprus and Greece. Valefor.Sehachan said: » I will not comment on whether agreeing to Germany's terms is right or wrong, but what is the point of holding a referendum if you then proceed to ignore its results? People are quite mad at Tsipras now. Tsipras interpreted it as inner political tool(similar to a motion of confidence) to strengthen his position within the Greek parliament (getting opposition on board) and reducing quarrels within his own party as his recommendation won. I doubt though it was worth it as it ended the easier second program early and is responsible for a great amount of damage to Greece monetary situation since his party Syriza prevented the election of the Greece president to get new election and become the governing power themselve. (~50bn destroyed in 7months just after the first sights of growth were visible) Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Bahamut.Kara said: » They lied to get into the EU Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping hide debts when it joined euro Leviathan.Chaosx said: » Quote: “London-based pressure group Jubilee Debt Campaign, which has studied the fate of heavily indebted countries around the world, says Greece is right to demand a more generous approach from its creditors, because although it has received an extraordinary €252bn in bailouts since 2010, just 10% of that has found its way into public spending. Much of the rest poured straight back out of the country: in debt repayments and interest to its creditors, many of them banks and hedge funds in the core eurozone countries, including Germany and France; and in sweeteners to persuade lenders to sign up to the 2012 bond restructuring that helped prevent the country crashing out of the euro. In effect, the “troika” of the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the European commission has simply replaced the banks and the hedge funds as Greece’s paymasters. The country’s overall debt burden has actually increased in the almost five years since it was first “rescued”, and of the amount still outstanding, 78% is now owed to public sector institutions, primarily the EU.” Quote: Since then[2010], the ‘Troika’ of the IMF, EU and European Central Bank have lent €252 billion to the Greek government.Of this, €34.5 billion of the bailout money was used to pay for various ‘sweeteners’ to get the private sector to accept the 2012 debt restructuring. Quote: €48.2 billion was used to bailout Greek banks following the restructuring Quote: €149.2 billion has been spent on paying the original debts and interest from previous lenders Profit for Greece from these restructions of debt since 2012 (not the hair cut which is already mentioned at 107bn) was about 40bn. The Greek Crisis is a very complex problem because of cultural, regional and global issues which would take quite a while to write them all down. If there are (relativly) specific questions concerning a few issues though, like Seha's question on the motive of the referendum, or to explain some of Greeks shortcomings in its structure, I will try my best to give both the German and the Greek view (and where it is possible an european one). ScaevolaBahamut said: » In the interest of fairness, everybody is calling Germany the bad guy (which to a large extent they are) The only good guys anywhere close are the former communist territories in the EU who, while being poorer then Greece, and with pensioners receiving far less than those in Greece, are being asked to contribute to the bailout. And let us remember that this is more a bailout of banks then of a country. Greece got into this mess by promising generous pensions starting as early as 45 among other outrageous things. Germany, in the meantime, bought Greek debt at a discount and insists on being paid in full. Germany is treating Greece rather worse than America's Republicans treat the poor. Somehow I can't wait till attention turns to Spain and its airports to nowhere. Garuda.Chanti said: » Somehow I can't wait till attention turns to Spain and its airports to nowhere. Oh man. The episode of Top Gear there is wild. Entire modern airports just abandoned. Entire new cities abandoned. volkom said: » Built, but then no one could afford to stay. Ciudad Real Central Airport. Ciudad Valdeluz (Sorry, no English Wiki. Translated the following.) Quote: Valdeluz city's Urban Action Program (PAU) Spanish in the grounds surrounding the Sanitarium Alcohete, belonging to the municipality of Yebes, province of Guadalajara. It is 8 km from Guadalajara together with the N-320 and the railway Guadalajara-Yebes. The urbanization of the city is divided into four phases in which the construction of some 9,500 homes in total, which could accommodate about 30,000 inhabitants was planned. In July 2006 we proceeded to the first delivery of housing to new neighbors. As of 2014 the complex was home to 2113 residents (see chart). The project was born after the announcement of the state of Guadalajara station of the Madrid-Barcelona in this area of the municipality of Yebes. the promoters of the work of an attempt to "pitch" urban by not placing the AVE train station in the center of the city of Guadalajara was accused. He also became involved in the controversy to the family of Esperanza Aguirre, original owner of the land whose value experienced in a short time a high value before the outbreak of the housing bubble in Spain. Jetackuu said: » Phoenix.Amandarius said: » Substantially raise minimum wage and cut welfare benefits. Interesting concept being floated here definitely worth a try. What people have been promoting here for years, the UK does it and it's an "interesting concept?" Anything that you might ever say of actual substance is lost beneath a mountain of constant douchebaggery. Odin.Jassik said: » Ragnarok.Nausi said: » No one's denying the earth's climate is changing, it's always changing. Plenty are denying it, or conflating climate and weather, etc. But, it's not specifically that it's changing, it's the rate it's changing. For a person who claims there are so many holes in the theory, you sure don't seem to have a *** clue what any of them are. Well that's the point. To the extent we can know how the climate changes we really can't with any certainty say: 1) That the climate is changing outside a "reasonable" rate. 2) That the change that is occurring is due to our emission of CO2. I mean the climate changes at a faster rate when a volcano goes off, than what the alarmists are claiming man has done. There is no uncertainty about the fact that greenhouse gases trap heat and increase temperature...so yeah, CO2 is a contributing factor indeed(around 10% I think).
Ragnarok.Nausi said: » climate changes at a faster rate when a volcano goes off |
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