HSBC: Too Big For Jail

Language: JP EN DE FR
users online
Forum » Everything Else » Politics and Religion » HSBC: Too Big for Jail
HSBC: Too Big for Jail
First Page 2
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-15 01:05:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/13/167174208/hsbc-critic-too-big-to-indict-may-mean-too-big-to-exist


Quote:
HSBC to Pay $1.92 Billion to Settle Charges of Money Laundering
By BEN PROTESS and JESSICA SILVER-GREENBERG

State and federal authorities decided against indicting HSBC in a money-laundering case over concerns that criminal charges could jeopardize one of the world’s largest banks and ultimately destabilize the global financial system.

Instead, HSBC announced on Tuesday that it had agreed to a record $1.92 billion settlement with authorities. The bank, which is based in Britain, faces accusations that it transferred billions of dollars for nations like Iran and enabled Mexican drug cartels to move money illegally through its American subsidiaries.

While the settlement with HSBC is a major victory for the government, the case raises questions about whether certain financial institutions, having grown so large and interconnected, are too big to indict. Four years after the failure of Lehman Brothers nearly toppled the financial system, regulators are still wary that a single institution could undermine the recovery of the industry and the economy.

But the threat of criminal prosecution acts as a powerful deterrent. If authorities signal such actions are remote for big banks, the threat could lose its sting.

Behind the scenes, authorities debated for months the advantages and perils of a criminal indictment against HSBC.

Some prosecutors at the Justice Department’s criminal division and the Manhattan district attorney’s office wanted the bank to plead guilty to violations of the federal Bank Secrecy Act, according to the officials with direct knowledge of the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The law requires financial institutions to report any cash transaction of $10,000 or more and to bring any dubious activity to the attention of regulators.

Jonathan Bachman/Reuters
In 2010, Lanny A. Breuer, left, head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, created a task force on money laundering.

Given the extent of the evidence against HSBC, some prosecutors saw the charge as a healthy compromise between a settlement and a harsher money-laundering indictment. While the charge would most likely tarnish the bank’s reputation, some officials argued that it would not set off a series of devastating consequences.

A money-laundering indictment, or a guilty plea over such charges, would essentially be a death sentence for the bank. Such actions could cut off the bank from certain investors like pension funds and ultimately cost it its charter to operate in the United States, officials said.

Despite the Justice Department’s proposed compromise, Treasury Department officials and bank regulators at the Federal Reserve and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency pointed to potential issues with the aggressive stance, according to the officials briefed on the matter. When approached by the Justice Department for their thoughts, the regulators cautioned about the effect on the broader economy.

“The Justice Department asked Treasury for our view about the potential implications of prosecuting a large financial institution,” David S. Cohen, the Treasury’s under secretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, said in a statement. “We did not believe we were in a position to offer any meaningful assessment. The decision of how the Justice Department exercises its prosecutorial discretion is solely theirs and Treasury had no role.”

Still, some prosecutors proposed that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. meet with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, people briefed on the matter said. The meeting never took place.

After months of discussions, prosecutors decided against a criminal indictment, but only after securing record penalties and wide-ranging sanctions.

The HSBC deal includes a deferred prosecution agreement with the Manhattan district attorney’s office and the Justice Department. The deferred prosecution agreement, a notch below a criminal indictment, requires the bank to forfeit more than $1.2 billion and pay about $700 million in fines, according to the officials briefed on the matter. The case, officials say, will claim violations of the Bank Secrecy Act and Trading with the Enemy Act.

As part of the deal, one of the officials briefed on the matter said, HSBC must also strengthen its internal controls and stay out of trouble for the next five years. If the bank again runs afoul of the federal rules, the Justice Department can resume its case and file a criminal indictment. An independent auditor will also monitor the bank’s progress to strengthen its internal controls, and will make regular assessments on the firm’s progress.

On Tuesday, HSBC said it had “reached agreement with United States authorities in relation to investigations regarding inadequate compliance with anti-money laundering and sanctions laws.” The bank is also expected to reach a settlement over the matter with Britain’s Financial Services Authority, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter.

“We accept responsibility for our past mistakes,’’ HSBC’s chief executive, Stuart T. Gulliver, said in the statement. “We are committed to protecting the integrity of the global financial system. To this end, we will continue to work closely with governments and regulators around the world.”

The HSBC case is part of a sweeping investigation into the movement of tainted money through the American financial system. In 2010, Lanny A. Breuer, the head of the Justice Department’s criminal division, created a money-laundering task force that has collected more than $2 billion in fines from banks, a number that is set to double with the HSBC case.

The inquiry — led by the Justice Department, the Treasury and the Manhattan prosecutors — has ensnared six foreign banks in recent years, including Credit Suisse and Barclays. In June, ING Bank reached a $619 million settlement to resolve claims that it had transferred billions of dollars in the United States for countries like Cuba and Iran that are under United States sanctions.

On Monday, federal and state authorities also won a $327 million settlement from Standard Chartered, a British bank. The bank, which in September agreed to a larger settlement with New York’s top banking regulator, admitted processing thousands of transactions for Iranian and Sudanese clients through its American subsidiaries. To avoid having Iranian transactions detected by Treasury Department computer filters, Standard Chartered deliberately removed names and other identifying information, according to the authorities.

“You can’t do it. It’s against the law, and today Standard Chartered is being held to account,” Mr. Breuer said in an interview.

HSBC’s actions stand out among the foreign banks caught up in the investigation, according to several law enforcement officials with knowledge of the inquiry. Unlike those of institutions that have previously settled, HSBC’s activities are said to have gone beyond claims that the bank flouted United States sanctions to transfer money on behalf of nations like Iran. Prosecutors also found that the bank had facilitated money laundering by Mexican drug cartels and had moved tainted money for Saudi banks tied to terrorist groups.

HSBC was thrust into the spotlight in July after a Congressional committee outlined how the bank, between 2001 and 2010, “exposed the U.S. financial system to money laundering and terrorist financing risks.” The Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations held a subsequent hearing at which the bank’s compliance chief resigned amid mounting concerns that senior bank officials were complicit in the illegal activity. For example, an HSBC executive at one point argued that the bank should continue working with the Saudi Al Rajhi bank, which has supported Al Qaeda, according to the Congressional report.

Despite repeated urgings from federal officials to strengthen protections in its vast Mexican business, HSBC instead viewed the country from 2000 to 2009 as low-risk for money laundering, the Senate report found. Even after HSBC’s Mexican operation transferred more than $7 billion to the United States — a volume that law enforcement officials said had to be “illegal drug proceeds” — lax controls remained.

HSBC has since moved to bolster its safeguards. The bank doubled its spending on compliance functions and revamped its oversight, according to a spokesman. In January, HSBC hired Stuart A. Levey as chief legal officer to come up with stricter internal standards to thwart the illegal flow of cash. Mr. Levey was formerly an under secretary at the Treasury Department who focused on terrorism and financial intelligence.

On Monday, the bank said it was promoting Robert W. Werner, who oversaw the group at the Treasury Department that enforces sanctions, to run a specially created division focused on anti-money laundering efforts.

Regulators have also vowed to improve. The Congressional hearings exposed weaknesses at the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the national bank regulator. In 2010, the regulator found that HSBC had severe deficiencies in its anti-money laundering controls, including $60 trillion in transactions and 17,000 accounts flagged as potentially suspicious, activities that were not reviewed. Despite the findings, the regulator did not fine the bank.

During the hearings this summer, lawmakers assailed the regulator. At one point, Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, called the comptroller “a lap dog, not a watchdog.”

We really haven't gone anywhere since '08. Banks are still too fking huge, consequences the bank makes are shuffled off on shareholders and citizens and no one is ever held responsible for their actions.
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-12-15 01:11:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sigh.
 Odin.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 01:15:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yeah I just heard about this *** too. I think the "end of the world" is actually not that far fetched anymore. I think with all of the recent ***laws being passed (Hi to you Michigan....you crazy ***), and the crazy acts of violence going on, I think everybody is just gonna ragequit the world and WW3 is gonna be a quick and fierce wipe of the board.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Shadowknoll
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Ragnarok.Shadowknoll 2012-12-15 01:16:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Yep, so what do you wanna do about it? any suggestions?
[+]
 Cerberus.Senkyuutai
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Yuffy
Posts: 4415
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2012-12-15 01:16:47
Link | Quote | Reply
 
***, they don't get enough from my 12£ per month?
 Fenrir.Terminus
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Terminus
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2012-12-15 01:22:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Can you imagine how guilty you must be if you decide that 1.92billion dollars is a good alternative to taking this to court?

I'm totally jealous.
[+]
 Odin.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 01:22:34
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Ragnarok.Shadowknoll said: »
Yep, so what do you wanna do about it? any suggestions?

Are you asking me to try to prevent a global crisis? ***idk, I'm just a chef...
[+]
 
Offline
Posts:
By 2012-12-15 01:25:19
 Undelete | Link | Quote | Reply
 
Post deleted by User.
 Odin.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 01:26:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Hell my first post was basically hyperbole to say the world is going to ***, anyways >_<
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-15 01:29:09
Link | Quote | Reply
 
If I was a high ranking member of a bank at this point I'd be breaking out the champagne and announcing to my fellow magnificent *** that we do in-fact own the world and are completely invincible. Who cares if you have to pay a fine when you're completely insulated from any consequences stemming from your actions? Just *** things up royally, blame market forces and missteps then watch as the governments come to right the sinking ship for fear of an economic instability stemming from a bank going under.

That'd be right before I bite the head off a kitten and cackle maniacally.
[+]
Offline
Posts: 246
By Taigatan 2012-12-15 01:41:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I haven't posted anything here in forever, but I found this post interesting. I actually have an old bad credit card debt I owe to HSBC. I've had two different places contact me, setup a payment arrangement, only to give me back my money and say "Sorry we're returning this debt to who we bought it from because the paperwork doesn't look right, here's your money back have a nice day".
 Odin.Eikechi
Offline
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
user: Eike
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2012-12-15 01:42:30
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Mint Pudding said: »
I haven't posted anything here in forever, but I found this post interesting. I actually have an old bad credit card debt I owe to HSBC. I've had two different places contact me, setup a payment arrangement, only to give me back my money and say "Sorry we're returning this debt to who we bought it from because the paperwork doesn't look right, here's your money back have a nice day".

da fuq....?
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
Offline
Server: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
user: Trebold
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2012-12-15 03:03:02
Link | Quote | Reply
 
It's really nothing new. People who hold power can get away with murder, while those of us who steal bread to survive get jail time. If these were local Joes who laundered money there would be no questions asked, they'd be sent to trial and likely found guilty and we'd all pat ourselves on the back. But the deal is that people who are in power or have connections can weasel their way out of just about everything.

It's liberty and justice for some, not all.

(I'm not trying to downplay this, in fact, I hope more people get *** pissed because this kind of *** shouldn't happen. Not even the president should be above the law.)

Here's an awesome article relating to it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/12/hsbc-prosecution-fine-money-laundering

Excerpt:
Quote:
The US is the world's largest prison state, imprisoning more of its citizens than any nation on earth, both in absolute numbers and proportionally. It imprisons people for longer periods of time, more mercilessly, and for more trivial transgressions than any nation in the west. This sprawling penal state has been constructed over decades, by both political parties, and it punishes the poor and racial minorities at overwhelmingly disproportionate rates.

But not everyone is subjected to that system of penal harshness. It all changes radically when the nation's most powerful actors are caught breaking the law. With few exceptions, they are gifted not merely with leniency, but full-scale immunity from criminal punishment. Thus have the most egregious crimes of the last decade been fully shielded from prosecution when committed by those with the greatest political and economic power: the construction of a worldwide torture regime, spying on Americans' communications without the warrants required by criminal law by government agencies and the telecom industry, an aggressive war launched on false pretenses, and massive, systemic financial fraud in the banking and credit industry that triggered the 2008 financial crisis.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Saevel
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2012-12-15 07:39:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
It's really nothing new. People who hold power can get away with murder, while those of us who steal bread to survive get jail time. If these were local Joes who laundered money there would be no questions asked, they'd be sent to trial and likely found guilty and we'd all pat ourselves on the back. But the deal is that people who are in power or have connections can weasel their way out of just about everything.

It's liberty and justice for some, not all.

Yeah it's been going on for centuries. Prior all you had to do was own a castle or piece of land and you could get away with whatever you wanted, provided you didn't piss off the local king. Now you gotta be in the upper echelon of a major financial institution and have connections.

We can be absolutely sure that the people running this bank had dirt on politicians and other senior political members (both parties). Otherwise there would be extremely vocal political commentary, speech's and other rallying cry's against this sort of thing. Instead it'll be a minor note on the major news carriers publications.
 Sylph.Rafaras
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Enitsu
Posts: 332
By Sylph.Rafaras 2012-12-15 10:28:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
That's my friends what is called "POWER" & "MONEY".

More stronger than a country and more fearful than a army.
[+]
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-15 10:55:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Yeah it's been going on for centuries. Prior all you had to do was own a castle or piece of land and you could get away with whatever you wanted, provided you didn't piss off the local king. Now you gotta be in the upper echelon of a major financial institution and have connections.

We can be absolutely sure that the people running this bank had dirt on politicians and other senior political members (both parties). Otherwise there would be extremely vocal political commentary, speech's and other rallying cry's against this sort of thing. Instead it'll be a minor note on the major news carriers publications.

They don't need dirt on the pols when they're bankrolling their reelection campaigns and hold the global economic system in the palm of their hands. It's like having a dead man switch where touching me means the whole thing goes boom and you the inept politician are left to clean up the bloody mess. Considering the ***we've heard our politicians say its safe to assume most of them are morons with more lip than sense who probably know about as much about finances as I do.

Our reaction in '08 wasn't to run from the bankers but be for the hydra conjured by them to be slain.You can't expect to throw the only people who know how to fix things in jail and bankers are smart enough to know what leverage is.

I just find it amusing that while we argue about *** like abortion and gay marriage the real enemies - if you want to call them that - lurk in the shadows, laughing as the pathetic pawns fight amongst themselves. Conservative? Liberal? Independent? More like peons who will continue to flounder about in the dark.
Offline
Posts: 42670
By Jetackuu 2012-12-15 11:10:27
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sylph.Rafaras said: »
That's my friends what is called "POWER" & "MONEY".

More stronger
than a country and more fearful than a army.
really?
 Phoenix.Valory
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: rori
Posts: 153
By Phoenix.Valory 2012-12-17 14:49:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Jetackuu said: »
Sylph.Rafaras said: »
That's my friends what is called "POWER" & "MONEY".

More stronger
than a country and more fearful than a army.
really?

99.9% sure English is not Rafaras' native language.
[+]
By Catharsis 2012-12-17 15:21:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I wish I was rich enough to buy my way literally out of anything. Mark Z. of Facebook could probably shoot Obama on national TV and never even get arrested. Don't *** with 3 billion teenage girls FB pages. INC Apocalypse.
 Siren.Dehien
Offline
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Dehien
Posts: 5
By Siren.Dehien 2012-12-20 16:19:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Just going to leave this here....

 Cerberus.Eugene
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Eugene
Posts: 6999
By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-12-20 16:35:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Can you imagine how guilty you must be if you decide that 1.92billion dollars is a good alternative to taking this to court?

I'm totally jealous.
2 billion is a slap on the wrist. if they didn't make a ton more by fraudulently manipulating rates and laundering money, the management should be fired.
 Sylph.Rafaras
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Enitsu
Posts: 332
By Sylph.Rafaras 2012-12-27 01:24:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Valory said: »
Jetackuu said: »
Sylph.Rafaras said: »
That's my friends what is called "POWER" & "MONEY".

More stronger
than a country and more fearful than a army.
really?

99.9% sure English is not Rafaras' native language.

My bad my bad. Unfortunately, I know how to speak english more than I know how to speak my own native language.

Knowing how to speak 6 languages kinda messes up my brain a little.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-27 02:07:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Siren.Dehien said: »
Just going to leave this here....


Vid went to ***when it started going down the conspiracy theory road.
 Cerberus.Celll
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Celll
Posts: 79
By Cerberus.Celll 2012-12-27 02:27:44
Link | Quote | Reply
 



Yes TYT can be a bit too liberal for my liking, but this is a great video.
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-27 02:42:17
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Liberal or Conservative, Black or White, Rich or Poor if you can't see the potency of the charge that an organization is above the law precisely because it's too powerful for the government to touch, you're living on another planet.
[+]
 Cerberus.Celll
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Celll
Posts: 79
By Cerberus.Celll 2012-12-27 02:50:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Fenrir.Terminus said: »
Can you imagine how guilty you must be if you decide that 1.92billion dollars is a good alternative to taking this to court?

I'm totally jealous.
2 billion is a slap on the wrist. if they didn't make a ton more by fraudulently manipulating rates and laundering money, the management should be fired.


Especially since they made about 22bn last year this is a drop in the bucket. Also the execs are taking a cut in their bonuses for the next 5 years.

Justice my arse. They helped terrorist groups kill innocent people from around the world. they should get nothing less then a life sentence in a Russian prison.
Offline
Posts: 32551
By Artemicion 2012-12-27 02:59:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Sparthosx said: »
Liberal or Conservative, Black or White, Rich or Poor if you can't see the potency of the charge that an organization is above the law precisely because it's too powerful for the government to touch, you're living on another planet.

Would you say that our judicial system has valued money over principals at this point?
 Lakshmi.Sparthosx
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: sparthosx
Posts: 10394
By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-12-27 03:03:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Artemicion said: »
Would you say that our judicial system has valued money over principals at this point?

I laugh at the notion of using the word principals anywhere near our judicial system. Get caught with some weed and your *** fries in jail for life but manipulate our currency, indirectly finance terrorism and drug trafficking and it's all good because you're too powerful to be touched. The whole thing reeks of so much corruption I think at this point the CEO could come out on national television and laugh at the American people for putting up with this level of greed.

These people should be tarred and feathered and the dangerous precedents we're setting will reap poisonous fruits in the future. With no incentive to stop this destructive cycle and a refusal to break up these larger than life banks we doom ourselves to a future crisis that could make '08 look like a roadbump.
 Lakshmi.Aelius
VIP
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Aelius
By Lakshmi.Aelius 2012-12-27 03:15:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Why can't shooters go after the bankers instead of schools?
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Tikal
Posts: 4945
By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-12-27 03:19:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Because they can, and do, afford large amounts of security.
First Page 2
Log in to post.