The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

My personal incomplete and biased conclusions from the small test is that all tested weapons are pretty nice in the end. Shigi obviously trumping when you need acc and sucking when you don't.
More in detail:

Shigi owns when you need acc, even when OH is gonna be uncapped because of the 228 skill. Better than I expected, hot!

Kanaria TA+ is *** awesome, didn't expect it to be so good and so close to Shigi even in uncapped acc situations.

Taka is... huh... has some use here and there. I didn't test with Kannagi 121 MH, but I get a hunch it could be really nice there.

Ochu is a good all-around option. Doesn't seem to excel anywhere maybe, but it performs good in all situations, sorta?


I think it has to be considered though that the Kanaria TA+ I used (from Langly's Spreadsheet) is pretty *** good. Not perfect, but still very awesome sauce. Getting one could take you more time than farming a Kannagi 121 from zero if you're unlucky. I'm at around 2000 traded stones and mine is nowhere as good as that sadly =/

It came from gdiShun's testing found here: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/33470/the-sealed-dagger-a-ninja-guide/38#2771043

I believe I even undervalued his findings when putting it into the spreadsheet.

I'll look into adding the bubbles and modifying the implementation of things like BoG, etc.

Gifts and JP's have been on my to-do list for a long time, but ultimately got pushed aside. Perhaps I can add that in shortly. We'll see, busy time of the year. :)

Yeah I remember his tests, I even participated in the discussion at the time.
Yet how do you explain the "strange" Shun numbers I got when comparing Heishi mainhand vs Kanaria mainhand?

If I manually change the TPbonus for shun (wether it's through TPbonus gear or custom line) the WSdamage doesn't increase, and I'm certainly not attack capped in the setup I posted. (as a matter of fact if I raise attack insead, there's big increases in the Shun Damage)

There's gotta be something broken somewhere in the spreadsheet, the Shun numbers are fishy.
Check previous page yourself and test the spreadsheet! I'm sure you'll be able to find what I couldn't :)

Maybe it has something to do with the Attack% calculations that were discussed a few pages ago?



Edit:
Yep, totally something about that.
Tried creating/editing items with the "att%" stat and wether i give a straight number or number+% symbol into the cell, the value gets ignored and DPS doesn't increase, neither does the att value in the "data" sheet.
I think there's something broken in the spreadsheet about the Attack% stat in general, and that explains why Shun's TP bonus gets ignored, being it an attack% bonus it likely follows the same formula/mechanism as all other att% bonuses in the sheet.

You're probably right about the Attack% fields not being used at all in the sheet. They're there for the gear lists, but I don't see them showing at all on the Gear page of the sheet. The attack column doesn't do anything with the %'s. I'm not sure if initially this was due to Ninja never using any attak %'s but I've never touched that portion of the sheet.

If you look at the Weaponskill Sheet, cell N5, you'll notice that the attack boost is being calculated correctly from your current TP as referenced in cell J7. Which DOES change if you add TP bonus in the gear section.

The issue lied in the Data sheet, line 72 and 133. The attack totals.

They were simply ignoring the line for WS Bonus attack (Line 66 and 127).

That has been corrected and the extra 20-50 attack from Shun's TP is now counted in the WS attack totals per hand.

I'm not entirely sold that the way we calculate the correct Attack bonus is applied... but for now with the idea that it's linear between anchor points, then I'm ok with this.

If anything, your Shun sets should do slightly better than before! :)

NIN Sheet (xlsx) - May 5th 2016

Thanks for calling this out. Going back, I now realize some of my tests accidentally used base Ochu or mid-range augments, instead of perfect augs Ochu, so definitely undervalued it and a perfect Ochu is better than I gave it credit for. Should be in the same ballpark as a moderately well augmented Kanaria, sometimes better and sometimes worse depending on buffs/target and WS mix.

Remember too that Kanaria does have some other perks that a perfect Ochu can't match - not too hard to get more DMG/acc/atk with moderate augments, Store TP+5 base, other stats like TA/crit dmg/crit rate.

Though, a lot of the situations I tested where Ochu falls the most behind tend to be ones you'd want a Shigi offhand anyway, so keep that in mind I guess.

As far as the value of WS attribute on offhand, I still find that to be a generally true rule of thumb (and like you said, part of what helps Ochu stay up there), DMG is king on a mainhand but comparatively less valuable than attribute for offhand if you have to choose (though, yeah, both is obviously ideal). I might also be overstating it somewhat on NIN since our WS aren't that powerful compared to some jobs - I first really looked at it closely on BLU, which is much more heavily skewed toward WS damage from CdC being so strong, so DEX augment is a much bigger deal on an offhand Colada.

Revisiting Taka, I also found it doing better than I remember and hanging near the Kanaria/Ochu tier (though as always, Shigi is king any time you need lots of acc). Did a lot of testing before on Taka and got worse numbers, not really sure why - maybe some combination of older spreadsheet not reflecting some things and selected buffs/targets.

Taka isn't anything "special" from my tests, but at the same time it seems better than I gave it credit for, especially in some circumstances.

Extensive test on the previous page if you wanna read it and find out mistakes or hopefully even something meaningful to discuss upon.

hello, i'm trying regear my ninja. anyone here have a update gear set for TP/WS? can somene plz post there set? thank you

Those are mine, there's minor tweak I'm doing depending on amount of haste. Not the perfect stuff, but if it can gives you a head up..

ItemSet 343539
Adhemar are path A - Herc. Feet are DEX/ACC/ATT/TA+3

ItemSet 343595
Hercs. parts are a mix of DEX/TA+/ACC/WS+

ItemSet 343596
Hercs. parts are AGI/CHD+

Thank you kendoh

How about a Kujaku +1 as off hand, worth the money?

I wasn't interested in testing Kujaku+1 so I didn't perform the test, you can do it yourself with the same settings I used, explained in the previous page :)

Capuchin owns one and I think he's pretty happy with it.

I do have a Kujaku+1, and it's not worth the money as a "serious" offhand for overall DoT. However, it's fantastic for TP generation if you're less concerned with your damage output and more concerned with WS frequency/opening lots of SCs for a MB-ing backline. For instance, CP on Apex mobs with some mages in party.

So basically, a rather expensive situational toy, and definitely less of a priority than Shigi/Kanaria/Ochu. It's a ton of fun to play with though!

Kind of a dumb question but what would be a good OH to my Kanaria when I don't need the Shigi's acc? There's so many katanas that seem good and it's tripping me up

Another Kanaria (highest DMG one in mainhand), or an Ochu.

Basically the same thought process as offhand to an RMEA, except for non-RMEA users it's much more important to get a DMG augment as close to max (DMG+20) as possible on your mainhand Kanaria. If you don't have good DMG augs, best to use whichever mainhand does have the most DMG between Kanaria, Ochu, or even Aizushintogo (which is not too shabby at DMG:138 at Rank 15).

Gotcha, thanks. My Kanaria is currently +18 dmg +24acc +15atk and +2 TA which I think I'm content with for now. I'll work on a second one.

It's been, like, discussed for the past 2 pages with multiple opinions, posts and a little bit of math as well?

There are several good OH Katanas, which one is the best depends on your gear, your buffs, the WS you use and your gear.
Raicho+1, Perf Ochu, Kanaria (good augments) adn Taka can all be really good offhand Katanas.

Any NIN fought Glazemane and have a strat? I saw comments that NIN was good on it, is it as simple as Utsusemi absorbs all the nasty stuff?

Just fought it for the first time last night with WHM GEO and a few BLU/WAR (basically the jobs we were on already from a different UNM, I was a BLU), we died. We did understand the no elemental damage/SCs thing, but tail smash was still killing people.

I figured next time we go back I'd just hop on NIN, bring a BRD using Scherzo (even if shadows/Migawari are enough for NIN, would prob need to bring a couple non-NIN DDs), and seems pretty straightforward. Is that right?

so i have been collecting nin skill gear for just having on migwari. Do any other spells get affect by this much? ive finally hit 500 but I am under the impression migwari only gets 1% boost every 5 skill lvs, which means I should probably be ok now.

On my nin enfebles I get resisted like crazy too, can anyone post their debuff and buff sets?

Pretty much, yeah, everything he has is blinkable. Sandstorm wipes shadows, if I remember right, so it's important to have multiple sources of shadows to put back up ASAP. I've solo'd him on NIN with Trust, but I'm never gonna try again, as it was an incredibly close fight. Or at least until my NIN is better prepared, since it's mostly entry level. That said, I would just suggest bringing as many NIN as possible to throw at him, and rely on Shadows and Migawari to absorb everything he throws out. That way, everyone can just spam Shun without worrying about procing an SC and causing a wipe.

The only 'mechanic' he has is that he gains a massive attack buff every time he uses Mighty Strike, and 3-4 of those is enough to make his crits hit for 2k+. You can proc him and remove this attack buff by timing a WS when he's readying one his; hence why it's better just to throw more NINs at him, as you get that many more proc opportunities. He starts double and triple attacking at an alarming rate below 20%, so I recommend saving abilities like Isseikigen and Swordplay (Doesn't need Runes to activate) until that point. Speaking of Swordplay, this guy doesn't seem to have an awful lot of accuracy. I know not a lot of people gear for Evasion these days, but you can probably achieve a considerable amount to avoid most of his melee hits. I estimate NIN can get around 1100+ evasion with the correct gear, JP gifts and JAs, which should help in preserving shadows.

He also Dispels buffs on hit, but that's irrelevant, since the main focus is to just shadow absorb everything. Even easier now if everyone brings a NIN Ambuscade cape with them.

I was always tank for him on NIN and we won most of our fights. Only notable gear I was using was af3 body to increase migawari threshold. sometimes he killed me because i didn't have shadows (I don't have san yet) but when he did kill me we had thf pop Perfect Dodge and then i would blow up and take hate back.

AFAIK, pure skill is only relevant to Migawari.

For enfeebles, generally these days just stacking whatever M.Acc you have is best. There are a few exceptions of Ninjutsu gear that has good values (i.e. better than the available Macc gear), but not too many cases. The set I use (when I bother having all my Macc gear with me) is:
ItemSet 343706

Notes:
- Non-Herculean gear shown, if you cared to get Herculean gear with Macc that could be best in slot for all five slots (though head/body/hands would have to be realllly strong to beat non-Herc options, like lucky Dark Matter augs strong). I actually do use one Herc piece, feet that I have MAB/Macc augs on plus base Macc+10.
- Could also get up to Macc+20 augment on Taeon gear (and hands/feet have Macc+7 base stats)
- RMEA mainhand is most Macc skill (242), with Nagi by far the best thanks to additional Macc+40. Shigi is best practical offhand if for some reason you're really focused on sticking enfeebles (and you aren't insane enough to offhand a second RMEA for the skill).
- Ryuo head is path D, which is terrific with Skill+15 and Macc+20
- Rawhide D hands are a little better, but I use capped Leyline that I keep in Wardrobe anyway and take the inventory +1.
- A couple of the Adoulin reward rings would go in a max set if you happen to have one of them (Weatherspoon Macc+10, Haverton Ninjutsu+10)
- Henic Torque is identical to Incanter's for NIN's purposes
- Some other good waist options: Ovate Rope, Cimmerian Sash, Salire Belt

biggggg help ty! Thats exactly what i was looking for.

Tomorrow I get my afterglow kik. What kind of setup for tp/metsu should i be aiming for? no HQ abjs.

SO just wow!!!

Got my AG kik last night and man is it nice. Just eyeballing I can say dmg looks to have jumped 2k on avg for ws's and always beats my HI dmg avg now. I understand this is all gear and mob dependent, but nonetheless its a really cool and noticeable upgrade. Not many upgrades in ffxi are so easily seen.

Kind of a cool sidenote. When soloing apex mobs I almost never could stick debuffs before, and now im landing them around a 50% rate. Not crazy good by any means, but my macc set is lacking most of all my sets (I am actively working on it now). That extra macc really shows.

I got to say its worth the upgrade and now basically always sitting at 1250~ attack is kind of cool, no buffs/food.

Is it possible to do a 4-5 step katana weaponskill order ending with umbra or radiance with aeonic katana?

(shun->)ten/hi->kamu->shun->shun

ty good sir

for LV2 aftermath up Shun>kamu>shun
LV3 Shun> kamu or Kamu>shun

I use the below for Metsu. Pretty high end, but I wouldn't be surprised if minor improvements could be made.

I'm not really sure on earrings, some alternative options like Dominance+1, Brutal, Moonshade, etc. For rings, 2x Ramuh+1 will be more consistent but Epona can be better (especially if you're acc capped). Also not sure how a full on WSD set compares, mainly because I'd have little other use for a set of WSD Herculean pieces. But it's an interesting question.

ItemSet 342506

For TP, you'll be looking at something like the following, assuming capped delay reduction (i.e. capped magical haste):
ItemSet 343796

Alternatives and some Acc Swaps:
Head: Dampening Tam
Neck: Lissome
Ears: Dignitary's/Zennaroi
Body: Adhemar or Ryuo if you don't have good Herc TP body
Hands: Adhemar or well aug'd Herc, situationally either can beat the other
Rings: Ramuh+1, Hetairoi
Waist: Olseni

Dual Wield swaps:
Use enough DW to hit delay reduction cap, try not to go more than a point or two over (reduced TP/hit). DW required at various levels of haste:

*Capped magical haste (448/1024 or more), i.e. Haste+Marches: DW+1 needed
- Note that on a practical level, under by 1 DW is so close to cap as to be generally best to ignore additional DW gear (though a limited number of DW pieces like Adhemar body have such good other stats they can still be worth the TP/hit reduction)
* Haste II only (307/1024): DW+21 needed
* Haste I only (150/1024): DW+32 needed
* Haste I + MG (150/1024 + 150/1024): DW+22 needed (basically same as Haste II only, but slightly more DW needed due to x/1024 rounding)
* Haste II (307/1024) and Victory March+0 (96/1024) - i.e. using RDM + Joachim trusts, since Joachim only does 1x March: DW+9 needed

Some notable DW pieces (not counting Herculean with DW, which seems sort of a waste unless you're swimming in excess stones/armor/inventory):
Head: Ryuo Somen (DW+8)
Ears: Suppa (DW+5), Eabani (DW+4)
Body: Adhemar (DW+5)
Hands: Floral Gauntlets (DW+5)
Waist: Patentia (DW+5)
Feet: Hizamu+1 (DW+7), Taeon (DW+4~9)


EDIT: also, question for the rest of you - anyone have a good current Blade: Ten set to share?

Obtainable Ten set:
ItemSet 331058

HQ would be throwing most Path B adhemar +1

Edit: aug's on Herc are most likely DEX/TA/ACC/ATT. But WSD and STR will work great as well