Several Questions About Gear/atma

Unfortunately searching hasn't provided me with much information I need, a lot is outdated or not specific enough to my needs.

So, here's my WAR. I've been upgrading it here and there, and I finally got around to unlocking Sanguine Scythe atma.

I've been using RR/VV/Apoc with phenominal results. Here's some gear sets. Yes, I need Ravager's Gorget and Widowmaker.

Kirin's Osode: Crit. Hit Rate+2% / Attack+7 / DW+2
Merits: Berserk+5 / DA+5 / War. Charge+5 / Savagery+5 / G.Axe+8 / Crit Rate+5 / STR+8

TP	Ukko's Fury	Berserk Ukko's Fury
Item Set	Item Set	Item Set

So, I've been wondering if I should start using Atma of the Sanguine Scythe? If so, which atma should it replace, VV or Apoc?

Ideally I wanted to use RR/SS/Apoc. However I thought about the "Impact of Double attack vs. Haste" graph and realized it probably applied to triple attack as well, especially stacked with a large amount of double attack. Maybe too much is showing diminishing gains.

If I use RR/SS/Apoc, I propose the following questions:

-Should I use Claymore Grip or Pole Grip? Claymore Grip. (in my experience)
-Should I TP in Grim Cuirass over Nuevo? With food I generally don't have a problem capping attack damage (around 635 a crit. swing prior to +2 boots) No.
-Should I use Champion's Galea with STR+4/AGI+4/WS.Acc+15/WS.DMG+2% anywhere in either WS set? No.
-Should I TP with Ravager's Orb instead of Fire Bomblet? Yes.
-Any other suggestions for immediate changes I can make? (i.e. not Zelus Tiara/+2 hands/mask, those will take me a while..)

PS - No, I'm not willing to make an Ukonvasara... yet. I'd like to push my limits as far as I can go first, then add in the game breaker. Done.

RR/SS/Apoc is a blast.


-imo the real question is Claymore vs. Brave, but I see arguments for both.
-If you dont need stp from ravagers, askar, or adaman, DA+2 Crit rate+3 is better than grim for tp
-Ravagers mask +2 is pretty choice for ws
-Your acc should be good enough on most things to fulltime ravagers orb

just my 2 cents :)

Was just thinking, and I am pretty sure I actually will start needing to worry about Store TP and a hit build if I ditch VV.

A lot of my playstyle is based on Retaliation though, meaning I not only get TP from getting hit, but I often overshoot 100tp retaliating. I think I will switch out the Fire Bomblet for Ravager's Orb, accuracy never really has been a problem. Plus I can get some money back for it.

I didn't even think of Brave Grip. I'll have to probably look at my crit rate in parses then do a little math to determine which is better between Claymore+Brave.

I'd say try to cap haste while keeping your hit build, but you probably already know that. :P

Holy CRAP, I'll buy it!

Screenshot of exemplary damage using Sanguine Scythe... 10484 damage in about 12 seconds...



This is from a different Tablilla fight but here's a parse... I'll eventually get around to comparing to RR/VV/Apoc but for now I have to ogle this:





Just wondering though, why would I crit for 855 three times in a row? Is there some sort of hard cap on crit damage?

Also I lied about +2 hands, 2 more seals and I can +1 and +2 'em. :) Then I'll *have* to get a Zelus Tiara!

Crit dmg cap was recently lifted, but crit hits always add 1 to your cratio. IIRC cratio from a crit caps between 3.0-3.15. If you are capped on attack against a particular mob, your crits should always land between 3.0-3.15 cratio. In other words, you probably just got lucky and hit the random cap three times in a row.

:O nice numbers! lol RR/SS/AoA is addicting :P

So, I finally got around to finishing my +2 hands.

I was wondering, is it viable to go from Goading Belt -> Bullwhip Belt in order to TP in +2 hands instead of Dusk Gloves? (For the benefit of STR/DEX, restraint bonus, and set bonus)

This'll put me at 25% (around 24.5%) haste, was thinking of saving up and buying a Blitz Ring, but probably not worth it when I can just get Zelus Tiara instead.

dont use dex ring in bersker up ws ?


I don't see anything the dex ring will do for you really.
acc you already got enough of and if not use fire bomblet instead of war orb (returning to this later)

crit rate from dDEXis also pretty much cap'ed inside abyssea due to dex form rr and cruor buffs

str ring will give you a bit more umpf in the ws as you secondary modifer is str based



in case you actually needed the acc swap in firebomblet instad of ravagers orb

you lose 4 str and 2 atk but gain get 5-7 str in the ring slot then, and you even end up with a higher acc also (6 from firebomblet isntead of 4 from dex ring)

with your setup, you'll need to tp in either

• askar korazin

• ravager's lorica +2 (+1 works too)

• adaman hauberk with stp/da augments

and that will keep a 6hit even with your current WS sets with apoc/rr/ss

-fire bomblet is fine for tp for newer junk. if you don't do any of the newer content stuff, fulltiming ravager orb is fine too.

-for both ws, ravager's mask +2 is ideal

-maybe Zahak's mail for berserk up ws

-you'll need the goading belt for the storetp but since you talked about having to get a zelus tiara...
zelus + goading + af3+2 legs/feet + blitz ring will allow you to tp in af3+2 gloves and cap gear haste.

I'll borrow this thread a bit.
Does Byakko's haidate with crit dmg+4% have a place for Raging rush inside abyssea at all?
Like when 2hr is on? Or is af3+2 legs still better, even with 100% crit rate?

Oh and also, outside of abyssea, pole vs claymore?

If you stick to a Crit WS I'd stick to claymore assuming xhit isn't being affected, if you use KJ/SC for some reason go for Pole.

You typically won't cap Crit rate unless BR is up if using RR/SS/AoA (or with potency effect but I never quantified it), and if BR is up and you have SS on you're pretty close to the crit damage cap (8% trait + 30% RR + 30% SS + 10% Emp feet + 20% BR = 98%, Haidate is only giving you 2 crit damage).

Totally forgot about the trait -_-
But how about 2hr and no blood rage?
Like, would it ever be worth it:P
If people even get this specific >_>
Figured I can optimize my xml as much as possible

I don't remember the exact numbers but generally unless you're benefiting from the dDEX and are not attack capped (barring severe accuracy issues in which case Calm Subligar iirc) I'd probably stick to Emp+2 legs.

Here's some more samples from my new atma setup. inb4 lolworms, leveling my alt. I appreciate the advice Yarly! I'll try to go for +1 body.


Anyways, I still have yet to compare new to old atmas, but I am trying to optimize my SS setup first.

I've made a couple upgrades to my TP and WS sets now (shown in OP), they're coming closer to my overall goal.

I just wanted to be clear though, is it absolutely true that AF3+2 set bonus does *not* activate on weapon skills?

Also, what kind of set activation rate am I looking at just TP'ing in 3 pieces?

yes it doesn't work on WS, 100% certain, and 3 pieces is fairly low...all the set bonuses from what i understand have about a 10% proc with 5/5 (like +2% per piece from 3-5 with base of 4 with 2 pieces maybe?)

Something that has been brought to my attention by several people is their opinion that RR/SS/Apoc is far better than RR/SS/VV. However, I seem to have quite the opposite results.

I did some more Tablilla-bashing (I turned on Blinkmenot for this to try and get more accurate results, it worked) and here's the results from 3 fights with each atma set. I figured 3 was plenty given the spread.

	RR/SS/Apoc	RR/SS/VV
Melee DPS	171.72	142.8
WS DPS	270.67	363.12
Total DPS	474.74	544.19
Lo/Hi WS	1482/6859	2198/6779
Avg WS	3926.70	4668.61

I chose Tablilla, again, for his moderate defense and high HP count. No tonics or outside buffs (except haste) were used for either set of fights. RR/SS/VV had a 49% double attack rate, where RR/SS/Apoc had 22%, and 16% triple attack (To my understanding, 16% chance of 1 more hit, in exchange for the potential loss of 1 hit and chance of set bonus 27% of the time). I may have given RR/SS/Apoc an unfair advantage in that I used some JA buffs before popping, thus saving time during the fight.

Anyways, you may have noticed I added Ravager's Lorica +2 to my TP set, which now gives me a 6-hit build outside Abyssea. However, I don't need it inside if I use VV, so I wonder if I should still continue using Nuevo Coselete with Crit Rate+3 and Dbl Atk+2?

if you killed 3 tablillas either way, you still do about the same amount of damage regardless of what setup you use

I don't see how 50 STR could account for the same build as +30% crit dmg... idk man..somethin smells fishy there

Huh? Both sets had RR and SS, this was a test between VV and Apoc.

how is vv 25% double attack?

It's only 10%, but since Triple Attack is dominant over Double Attack, I suspect it activated on the same attack round as some of the Double Attacks. (if that can happen, if not, idk how the hell that happened)

TA will actually diminish your DA. You have 15% TA, then you have 20% DA, you'd have 85 x .2 = 17% or so DA chance.

I just don't get where you got the other 15% double attack; assumed 2% from nuevo for 25%.

Either way, Rancor should prove better for RR than gorget.

that is a NICE avatar you have.

Got it from some awesome dude somewhere on the internet.

I've been trying to get my hands on one to try out, but also I saw that some people prefer Gorget for Ukko's Fury, and some will recommend a similar setup for Ukko's/RR so I've been skeptical about it. Then again, Ukko's is only 2 hits.

oh i read that wrong E, my bad

Ukko's also has higher natural crit rate and less hits. Askar body would be nice as well, if you can get that.

Edit: Maybe not, noticed no goading belt. Probably require the STP on Ravager's.