TP/WS Advice

I'm currently working on my nin, and want to get some CONSTRUCTIVE comments about gear (I dont have access to +2 yet so looking for options working with af3+1/AH/AF1/relic etc stuff).

This is one I thought would be decent.

TP Set
WS Set

Posting your sets in the thread so it's easier to see them




Looks like you have a pretty good grasp on what to go for. May I ask why +2 is not available for you? If you get yourself a whm you could probably duo most of the zone bosses for +2 items.

For your TP set I would suggest using brutal earring instead of ethereal. If you can get your hands on an Atheling mantle, use that too.

TP:

brutal earring(in place of ethereal), ninja chainmail/ninja chainmail +1, atheling mantle, Twilight belt off the top of my head.

aurore doublet is better than what you have currently too.

Oh yeah I forgot about Loki's kaftan. Good for TP/WS.

WS: I think it's fine, honestly haven't looked into non-Hi sets.

Alternative to that is you can get a really nice augmented yataghan(Base DMG+ and Crit+%) from Abyssea - Grauberg and you could main-hand that and do Evisceration instead of Blade: Jin.

Thanks for the feedback.

As for the +2, I will get them eventually, just waiting for my turn in the ls to get the items (and with 10 other jobs i am still gearing nin is lower on the list of +2s >.>)

bump for ?
hope torque or Agasaya's collar

TP set


WS

agasaya will win for damage every time.

If you're capping subtle blow in gear and not in agi, then hope torque if you are going out of your way for enemy tp reduction.

Just a quick question. Heafoc mitts dropped for me today and was wondering if they'd be a viable piece for Blade: Jin WS set. Yes or no?

Regarding heafoc mitts over other items, like af1 +1 for example, I would think that they'd be a very bad choise since you will sacrifice a lot for a little bit more att.
The -DEX and -acc wont help accuracy of of a multihit WS and it also lowers your chance of criting a crit-based WS, which both applies to blade: jin.
Furthermore, 13 STR, -4DEX (+9 in WS mods) vs +6 STR, +6DEX (+12 in WS mods) isn't exactly beneficial for increasing WS dmg either, if I'm not completely mistaken.

So yea, I'm not much of a maths geek regarding dmg- and hitrate-calculation but I would say that heafoc mitts would do more bad than good for blade: jin.

Haste


Blade: Hi


Blade: Jin

my TP Set (dusk during day time)


this is my current Jin set (dont have kannagi 85 yet) and i see avg. 1.4k outside abyssea and avg. 3.2k inside abyssea (daytine i just use Iga hands +2)

my Jin set inside abyssea.



any suggestions guys? im still kinda in the air about my earring, belt and back slot.

warwolf or thunder belt?
centaurus or hollow earring?
also i see some people using cuch and cavaros over atheling??? are those two better for Jin?

personally i'd say thunderbelt, as for earing i cant comment i use a dex earring, and i personally use cuch mantle since i still do sone stuff outside abyssea so i like to keep things generic, although this will not matter in the next week or 2 when i complete kannagi 85 so blade jin will not be the top choice WS for me

Those using full +2 set with Kannagi, where are you getting your numbers?

I've seen 3 popular sets so far:

Full +2 and Twilight belt (with either Tiercel or Iga neck).

4/5ths +2 and Dusk Hands+1/Relic hands with goadling.

And my set which is:



Full +2 gives 243/256 haste, but adds an unconfirmed 2-3% additional hit rate (for the off hand only?) for completing the set. This set also has 12 more evasion and ~4 more acc then the other sets.

4/5ths +2 and Dusk Hands+1/Relic hands with goadling gives:
256/256 haste and 5 more stp, as well as a bit more attack, but at the cost of +2DA from Twilight, and about 12 less accuracy.

The set I have above gives:
256/256 haste, +2DA from twilight, more attack then both builds, 2 more stp than the full af+goadling build, but ~4 less accuracy than the full +2 build.

So I guess it comes down to: Both the full +2 and the goadling/4/5ths +2 have lower hit rates (either less acc/haste or less haste/stp), but ~1-3% more off hand extra attacks (from 1-2 more pieces of +2 gear in TP phase).

Anyone developed any detailed spreadsheets on the DPS of each build, with GH/RR/Apoc atma ofcourse?

5/5 AF3+2, I think gives the OH a 10-12% chance to DA or OAT. Not entirely sure. Also, with the full set + Suppa, WHM haste puts you over delay reduction by 3%-ish, hence why most full-time it (Innate DW 35 + Supp 5 + Haste gear 24 + Head DW 3-ish + WHM Haste = 82% Delay Reduction).

The off hand extra attack bonus is given as 1-2% per piece, with the possibility of an extra 1-5% from set bonus. The 4/5ths and 5/5ths sets would only have 1~7% more off hand extra attacks, which degrades Kannagi's ODD from the main hand, but increases your WS frequency (but not a linear increase due to Nin's already high average attacks/round with Apoc/sub war/etc.)

Additionally, full set + suppa and Whm doesn't put you over the delay reduction cap, not even close. You would need a Bard for that and AF body. Not sure where you're getting your numbers.

Dual weild and haste don't "add to form a total delay reduction", it doesn't work like that.. They're separate terms. (Delay * DW * Haste, not Delay *(DW+hate)). How do people still not know this?

That was my fault. I had "People think they hit the delay reduction cap" at the end of my sentence and took it out to move it, using the formula how other NINs explained to me, which I know is wrong, and forgot to put it back in.

It's fine, didn't mean to come across as insulting, just a lot of misinformation out there and I was looking for input on the various sets. I used to have a pretty detailed DPS sheet, but it's outdated at the moment and wanted to see if anyone else had run the numbers. I think I'll stick with my above posted set until someone shows a better alternative.

This is my current TP set:


Thing is I'm only getting 9tp/attack round

Just wondering would it be better to switch out twilight for goading?
Double attack +2% vs +5stp(should boost me up to 10tp/round)

I'll keep capped haste with either of them.

that looks like the ultimate TP set imo, would be interesting if someone thinks there is something better out there. if it wasn't clear i'm basically telling you i want to have sex with your NIN.. one day hope to grow up and be like your NIN :)

could do usu feet or goading belt yeah, would guess that getting 10tp/round would be better than 2% da, but i could be wrong.

iga dochugappa is a possibility to get 10tp an attack round as well.

In the end, TP overflow in abyssea will net you lower DoT from Iga than just using Atheling (unless you're attack capped, which isn't often on NIN).

There is really no need to use +2 nin feet in the set Upbeat posted, you're overcapped on haste and can easily drop them for Usukane feet (7 more stp, acc, and attack), and just swap back in +2 feet for Utsusemi.

Dropping Twilight for Goadling gives you 2 less stp than the Usu feet setup, 2% less DA, 7 less acc, and 7 less attack, and only gives you a few str and dex (irrelevant in abyssea) and some jawsome "Tactical Parry".

saying that there's no need to use +2 nin feet because of usu feet assumes that he has usu feet. you could say "well, they're easier to get now" but the original question was whether the 5stp or 2da is better without/until usu feet. also, does that 5stp actually give you 10% per round?

Assuming 210/180 for Kannagi/Kamome Katana Kombo!

That gives you 253.5 delay while naked for 4.5tp/hit.

Add Iga Zukin +2 (assumed 5%), Ninja Chainmail (5%), and Suppanomimi (5%) and we have 195 delay after dualwield for 4.3tp/hit.

Needs StoreTP+17 to get 5.0tp/hit

Brutal Earring, Usukane Sune-Ate, Rajas Ring, Iga Douchugappa would put you at storetp+18 but you'd be sacrificing the atk+20/da+3% from atheling mantle.

The data I showed has Iga Zukin's "Enhance's Dual Weild" as adding some DA%, not the standard 5% DW bonus. However if you have contradicting data I'd love to see it.

That being said, there are still very few situations where Iga Douchugappa beats Atheling.

As for Lorzy's comment: They (Usukane Sune-ate) are easy to get and there is really no reason to not have them if you're serious about Nin (or Sam even). As for 2% DA or 5stp being better if you just "have" to make the direct comparison. 2% DA is diminished by high amounts of DA/TA already on NIN with /war and Apoc atma, however the 5stp will be mostly wasted as (unless you're also wearing Usukane Haramaki during TP with your other gear), you won't be saving an attack round to 100.

Well, I don't have Iga Zukin +2 so can't really test if it gives any DW+ at all nevermind how much DW :(

But even removing the 5% and assuming Iga Zukin +2 doesn't reduce delay at all, stp+17 is still required thanks to rounding.

no dw gear: 4.5 tp
only iga zukin +2: 4.4 tp
only ninja chainmail: 4.4 tp
iga head + chainmail: 4.3 tp
chainmail + suppa: 4.3

think people have said that the set bonus augments dw is da%, but it seems like iga zukin +2 is indeed 5 dw.

I'll look into it, though I don't think I care enough to test it since it won't change which TP set you should use.

i just tested it :/, standard go around hit level 1 mobs ten times. double checked too, since 4.5 with no dw gear means it's 9tp in 2 hits, and any less means it's 8. and that was what was generally accepted, that iga zukin +2 was 5% dw, and that the set bonus was what increased da%.

Great thanx.