Restraint And Ravager Mufflers +2

After recently obtaining Ravager's mufflers +2 of my own, i decided to do some tests of my own to pin down the bonus. It's very clear what the +2 bonus is: doubles the bonus you get from normal restraint.

What's not so clear is how restraint works. Which is what the majority of this post will be about.

Things you should know about restraint if you didn't already:

*Restraint "charges" which when added up directly affect WSDMG.

*After you WS, your restraint "charge" counter resets to 0.

*Delay of the weapon/s you use have an impact on the amount restraint "charges" per hit.

*Ranged attack WS are in no way affected by restraint.

*Only the FIRST hit of an attack round has a chance to "charge" your restraint counter. This means all additional attacks from DW, DA, TA will NOT charge restraint at all. (OAX weapons need more testing if they charge restraint after the first hit)

*If the first hit misses, restraint won't charge even if there are addition attacks after the miss in the round.

Weapons used: Senior Gold Musketeer's Scimitar and Company Sword




As you can see in the 2 pictures the # of attacks vary, but the "charges" stay the same.

Testing:

*I used spirits within for my main WS during test.

*For delays with DW i assumed the -25% DW JT effected the delay, thus the damage also.

*I used several combinations of sword/axe/dagger to obtain data for different delays.

*For the tests i would save 300% tp, use restraint, then count up the "charges".

*10 charges were used in all tests.

The following charts show the data i collected:

Here the points are the % increase from the base spitits within damage:


Here shows the damage increase:


With this i believe we can hypothesize that per a set amount of delay, roughly every 30 delay or so, there's a 1%~ increase to restraint damage. So based on this data, a 482-504 delay weapon should receive roughly 18-19% boost to restraint with 10 hits charged or 1.8-1.9% increase to WSDMG per a "charge" and double that with Ravager's mufflers +2 active.

Further Notes:

*Unclear if OAX hits can charge restraint.

*Unclear if restraint stays the same % increase based on each hit landed or if it gets an additive or multiplicative trait with each successful hit charged.

*Unclear how DW effects restraint and what this means for 2H weapons.

Amazing work. Thanks for all the info and time spent on this!

Awesome testing, thanks!

Excellent work. I've always wondered about this sort of thing. I never use restraint because I have never noticed a difference just by eye-balling it. But now I see that I'm wrong.

Ok, I am truly confused. If spirits within is directly affected by your hp total, what is this test showing?

/puts on troll face

That people can spend so much time on a game, that they start to make charts and graphs.

Restraint adds an additional % of weapon skill damage based on the number of swings you land before weapon skilling.

Since Spirits Within gives a static damage return instead of the variable amounts generated by other WS, using it at 300% to test allows him to calculate the % difference given by Restraint with and without the gloves without any extra variables affecting damage amount.

Ignorant posts are ignorant.

What ejin is showing is how restraint effects the WS modifier's spirits within does damage based on your HP and with an increased modifier will increase the % of your total hp. So with restraint the damage slightly increases and with restraint + Ravager's +2 its doubled. The charts / graphs are for people who wont bother reading because that is to much effort for some on a forum.

Excellent testing Ejin.

Good work and time spent on this, some valuable info. I see why you did spirits within for your study, however I would have loved to have seen some data on great axe to see if a 2 handed weapon might gain a bigger bonus. (Doubt it, but would be nice to officially rule it out)

@Nevill He's testing the damage bonus to ws you get by obtaining different levels of restraint. I initially thought there would be a lot of background noise in his data by using spirits within, but if you go onto wiki and read the description of this ws I never use, it will give you an idea of why the OP used this ws. His choice probably has about as much background noise as other ws or less.

Thanks for a straight answer. I don't know why some people assume everyone is a troll. I was just asking a damn question, never said the test was flawed.

Stupid question does this % bonus apply to any WS? or Non crit only?

what?

Great post Ejin
You should post this on BG, get more constructive discussion on it.

I don't even know what this guy is saying.

So he's never used spirits within, and he says it's got a lot of background noise? Is that stupid-talk for variance? Or does he mean the noise that spirits within makes when you use it. It does have a slight hum akin to background noise.

If it's variance, there is none. 100% of the time you can tell how much damage spirits within will do to any normal mob that isn't resistant/weak to spirits within type damage (non-elemental magic, I think)

OP, How many samples did you get per delay bracket?

Before, in the only other reasonable testing of Restraint that I've seen, it was thought that the Restraint damage bonus was variable. (See : http://robonosto.blogspot.com/2010/07/restraint-tentative-findings.html ).

But in that test, he never considered that it would be possible for only the first hit of an attack round to contribute to Restraint "charges" - he always counted the total amount of attacks landed, which obviously will come from a variable number of rounds when you have DA. If that's the case, maybe the Restraint increase is completely deterministic after all?

Do you have enough data points with the same amount of charges in the same delay bracket to verify this? If it's true, it might be possible to use that to just figure out roughly what the bonus would be for other weapons by using higher delay swords (and/or Slow, if it's using final delay rather than base).

I'd say 2-3 per delay bracket, or at least enough to satisfy me that it wasn't completely random.

My final test was to use a Bow to get a higher delay weapon with a static WS, but sadly restraint has no effect on ranged WS.

Couldn't verify this by a quick skim and wasn't in the mood to go through it in depth again.

Did you try tping in AF3+2 hands vs. just using the restraint JA in AF3+2 and tping in other hands?

The gloves need to be on for the hits landed with restraint active. They don't need to be on for activation or WS.

Ah I see. That's a pity. Would require zelus tiara then for a proper build

Oh wow, great test! GJ ^^

I miss how Restraint was when it first came out, though now it is far less situational. Your tests are awesome, really nice to see some hard testing on Restraint/AF gloves. One thing I don't think you noted, is that once you reach 300% TP your Restraint stops charging, but also from using Dancer sub and constantly taking my TP down with dances before reaching 300% there seems to be a cap to round charges.

To answer Skarwind's question, since they patched Restraint last year it has worked with all weaponskills. It no longer hinders critical hit ones, which has brought it into mainstream usage.

One thing I've been really curious about, especially since Impetus came out is, do retaliations build Restraint? Have you tested that at all?

All of the tests were done via building 300% tp and then using restraint, so restraint does indeed keep building even after 300% tp. I was also /nin.


I haven't tested that yet. I would guess that they do.

Awesome work. Thanks for doing the testing.

Now i need a zelus tiara ><

Oh, well that's cool to know. I've never used it at 300% But very cool and good to know that I can make my WS stronger if I already have TP built up.

I'm still curious about the Retaliations, so whenever you do get around to it, if ever you do; I'll still be interested.

Anything on a number of hits that caps restraint? If it caps, if/how delay - effects it both from gear JT. Based on other calculations of haste I would think haste doesnt effect it whether it be magical gear or Ja.

Restraint DMG increase
Vs
ODD damage on double attacks from +2 set bonus.
3 pieces vs 4..


If most of your stuff holds ignoring other factors it would mean TP sets for...
Restraint up/down
Since what is looking like is that in most situations (when your WS do any respectable amount of damage) the increase from using the +2 hands in TP phase blows the (DA ODD from the +2 set) out of the water

Depending on your DMG breakdown.. %TP/%WS
Unless I'm missing something here?

Not entirely true as long as you don't mind using blitz Ring again



Depends on how much sTP you need for your build I spose, not sure what the current benchmarks are for 488 482 504 delays especially after considering regain from atmas/rolls/sch and stuff

Off hand I don't think the restraint bonus is enough to make up for what all you're sacrificing there.

You should be only getting in 5-6 hits before popping off a ws and resetting your restraint.

Better options for TPing with the +2 hands and not using tiara?