Refresh II - Hurrah!

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Refresh II - Hurrah!
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 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-11 00:09:29
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Also there is saboteur debuffs. Double potency and long duration but not long enough for even 2 rdms to just keep up para/slow II. Mix in some AOE buffs/cures can be helpful. Also can take place of whm for say shell/barspells (thank god for them uncapping them)
 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-09-11 00:11:50
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Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Fenrir.Fearforever said:
costs 60mp, and restores 6mp/tick. DOESNT work with Accession and lasts 2.5 mins.

So we're back to being just cure ***. *** YOU FOR THAT ONE, SE. Why can't I just play as an Enfeebler/Debuffer with a side of Curing and Nuking?!
you forget RDM only has cure IV sch has cure V (i think?) and whm has cure VI so rdm not good main heal anymore. having /rdm mages can now refresh themselves which would be more reliable for them i would say
I only like RDM in events now if im /sch so accession refresh 1 or NOTHING :P Refresh *** no thanks.
 Alexander.Xgalahadx
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By Alexander.Xgalahadx 2010-09-11 00:56:33
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Bismarck.Rellz said:
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Fenrir.Fearforever said:
costs 60mp, and restores 6mp/tick. DOESNT work with Accession and lasts 2.5 mins.

So we're back to being just cure ***. *** YOU FOR THAT ONE, SE. Why can't I just play as an Enfeebler/Debuffer with a side of Curing and Nuking?!
you forget RDM only has cure IV sch has cure V (i think?) and whm has cure VI so rdm not good main heal anymore. having /rdm mages can now refresh themselves which would be more reliable for them i would say
I only like RDM in events now if im /sch so accession refresh 1 or NOTHING :P Refresh *** no thanks.
Sorry no, sch only has cure IV same as rdm.
 Bismarck.Rellz
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By Bismarck.Rellz 2010-09-11 01:01:51
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Alexander.Xgalahadx said:
Bismarck.Rellz said:
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said:
Fenrir.Fearforever said:
costs 60mp, and restores 6mp/tick. DOESNT work with Accession and lasts 2.5 mins.

So we're back to being just cure ***. *** YOU FOR THAT ONE, SE. Why can't I just play as an Enfeebler/Debuffer with a side of Curing and Nuking?!
you forget RDM only has cure IV sch has cure V (i think?) and whm has cure VI so rdm not good main heal anymore. having /rdm mages can now refresh themselves which would be more reliable for them i would say
I only like RDM in events now if im /sch so accession refresh 1 or NOTHING :P Refresh *** no thanks.
Sorry no, sch only has cure IV same as rdm.
ah i thought they did. they have a JA that gives cure IV the potency of cure V so its the same thing... kinda
 Asura.Calatilla
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By Asura.Calatilla 2010-09-11 01:06:57
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said:
Cerberus.Eugene said:
here's food for thought: brd/rdm at 99 will be able to fastcast spells, haste, ballad 3 and ballad 2 with a fulltime plus 1 instrument. thats (3+1)+(2+1)+3 = 10 mp a tick refresh for a party alone. add 5/mp a tic atma that anyone can get that's 15mp a tic. add to the fact that a sch can ascession refresh. thats at minimum 15/mp a tic refresh for all mages and 12 mp a tic refresh for plds before gear and JAs. nobody should need 18 at the cost of a sch, cor or second brd in party, seeing as mp and hp levels aren't going up exponentially while mp refresh effects are. essentially makes refresh2 useless soon outside of a self buff. unless rdm gets some serious rdm exclusive party buffs it will soon find its way out as a support class and be used more for enfeebles exclusively. which means it will find its way into less alliance slots.

You may be right that our spot in an alliance is looking kind of grim. Until we get a higher tier cure, RDMs are somewhat in trouble. Anyone that can /whm will now have access to Cure IV and has had access to haste, /rdm their own refresh.

As far as Refresh II being needless overkill, nah. Spells are still getting more expensive to cast, so it's not like all this new refresh won't be used.

RDM nukes aren't a trivial matter, either. It's lower damage than a BLM, but RDM can still easily fill the role of good buffer, decent healer, decent nuker, and great enfeebler, all in a moment's notice.

If all your looking for is a healer, then yes, rdm is getting pushed out. But if you need something debuffed/enfeebled so it does`nt run all over your tanks/DD then a rdm is still up there, no other job can enfeeble like a rdm can.
 Shiva.Shinneh
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By Shiva.Shinneh 2010-09-11 14:43:48
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Lol found out the answer to my own question, Composure+ Sandstorm lasted about 9 minutes. Not bad at all!
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2010-09-11 15:03:39
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i agree that rdm enfeebles are still very potent, and i didn't say rdm would be pushed out entirely, just losing some of the solid ground that it had. refresh2 is not going to instantly put it back in the good graces of parties. refresh2 is nice, but not a godsend that will save all that rdm has lost compared to other jobs. (refresh, phalanx, one of two haste jobs, convert, one of 4 jobs with cure4 (including pld), etc.)

If nothing significant changes in turns of buffs, a sch/rdm will be at least as good a rdm/sch at 99. accession: phalanx, stoneskin, aquaveil, refresh, and ability to convert and to haste. a brd can take on many of the roles a rdm had and offer more diversified buffs. that means a rdm will no longer be essential to support a tank or dd party. Will rdm be fazed out entirely? no. but it won't be as essential as it was for 7 years of the game.

also, i'm not arguing that refresh2 is overkill or useless (i said that in my original post but that was mistaken, i apologize). low man, solo, and some other situations its still great, and i'm sure that in a few situations it'll be required to squeeze out that last ounce of mp. but again, refresh2 isn't some magical cureall for all rdm is losing.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-11 15:07:51
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I'd like to see a sch/rdm do refresh II... or a 78% slow.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2010-09-11 15:17:23
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
I'd like to see a sch/rdm do refresh II... or a 78% slow.

well if you're going to insist that that 3 mp a tic is going to make a world of difference to the whm when you're going from 15mp/tic to 18mp/tic in a dd party that's going to love the extra minuets more, then I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

78% slow is nice, not too much in this game is difficult enough to need that full 100% of the time. example: my ls went out and xp partied to 85 last night, farmed up a pop for the orobon quest boss, killed it with no knowledge of what it could do and xp party jobs, poor setup, and tired after xping. the rdm that slowed it came in late and was lvl 82 so no saboteur.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2010-09-11 15:23:05
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then again perhaps that's not the best example of a mob because when its not spamming tp moves its attacking very slowly.
 Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
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By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-09-11 15:23:26
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The way I see it is, the fewer people you use, the more a RDM makes or breaks the group.

A RDM is a lot more needed when you have 4 people than 18.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2010-09-11 15:24:05
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i'll agree with that for sure

EDIT for further thought:

oh yeah, if you have a second brd in a party instead of the rdm or sch that brd can ballad 1 the whm with +1 instrument. this makes the net mp gain from a unbuffed refresh2 1 not 3 as i previously stated.
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By Fenrir.Aeriso 2010-09-11 23:50:35
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Cerberus.Eugene said:
i'll agree with that for sure

EDIT for further thought:

oh yeah, if you have a second brd in a party instead of the rdm or sch that brd can ballad 1 the whm with +1 instrument. this makes the net mp gain from a unbuffed refresh2 1 not 3 as i previously stated.

dont forget the +2 pants. making Ballad 1 = 3. 2 = 4 and 3 = 5.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-11 23:52:26
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Sure but rdm gets enhance refresh gear too now lol
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By Flionheart 2010-09-11 23:56:15
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9mp refresh from a BRD, 18 if they use Soul Voice.

Add another brd and thats 12mp or 24mp with soul voice.

In an optimal situation the mages will have 24mp refresh from BRDs alone.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-11 23:57:35
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Also these gain spells appear to be full of win. NOt sure where they cap but I was getting 9 to stats for 15 min with just a couple of peices of enhancing gear on... might try recapping skill and looking into it
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By Flionheart 2010-09-11 23:58:17
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Actually scratch that, optimal situation would have both brd's having Ghorns so that would be 28mp refresh.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2010-09-12 23:24:51
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Ramuh.Dasva said:
Sure but rdm gets enhance refresh gear too now lol


yeah i purposefully ignored af3+2 as its not the simplest thing in the world to get. but it cancelled each other out as brd and rdm both got the bonus. then again i dont know the +1 ballad instrument is any easier, but i sorta assumed it was. i might be wrong there.
 Ramuh.Dasva
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By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-12 23:26:00
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Cerberus.Eugene said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Sure but rdm gets enhance refresh gear too now lol
yeah i purposefully ignored af3+2 as its not the simplest thing in the world to get. but it cancelled each other out as brd and rdm both got the bonus. then again i dont know the +1 ballad instrument is any easier, but i sorta assumed it was. i might be wrong there.
Well I meant cause someone was bringing up brd pants
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