Haste Vs. Dual Wield

In the case of TP gain.
Does anyone know/remember the ratio of haste to delay and dual wield to delay ratios?
Iow, is 5% Haste > 5% Dual Wield or visa versa?

IMO, 5% Haste > 5% Dual Wield, but that's mostly because Haste wont affect TP per hit, offer the same (or a similar) incerase in attack speed, and play a moderately dramatic role on lowering spell recast timers.

I've not looked into the difference in any real detail, so I wouldn't be able to spout out some weird looking formula >.>

Haste increases melee DoT and WS frequency by x%

Dual Wield reduction increases melee DoT by x% and WS frequency by a much smaller %.

x in both cases are the same.

Basically both have roughly the same effect on your melee DoT, but haste is much better for WS frequency making it the stronger stat.

As noted above, haste caps at 25% on gear (you need 26% to cap due to inaccuracies in labelling though) and 43.3% from magic (not 50%), 25% from JA (Hasso, Desperate Blows). There is a global cap of 80%. If you are somehow capped, further haste will do nothing but no dual wield job can get to 80% anyway, let alone 26% in gear.

me thinks this reeks of lolwut

I'm a THF at heart, though I plan to level ninja in the near future.
Currently I'm sitting on 20%haste in gear, even with Homam Adds I wont reach 25%. Nough said, Rapparee > Mirke.

Looks like i'll be pushing my custom stats for RNG then.

it depends if u have multihit weapon or not is what i think and if ur playing endgame or meriting like thf/war on a byakko with haste ftw and a nice stat + shield or thf/nin with a off hand Mkris for merit pt not like thf's get many invites but for drk with meriting i think it would be tough between drk/sam and the scythe + haste or ridill with like maneater i think if i had that i may go drk/drg with cap haste gear on over scythe i dont have the ridill yet to test it but now that makes me think :D

*suffocates*

@.@

M Kris is a terrible weapon for DoT.

@Houshisama: It's also largely true. Prove me wrong if you want.

DRK/SAM Scythe > DRK/NIN Dual Wield, always.

*passesout ontop of Wooo*



/spitshisdrinkout, excuse me?
ok sure i can't hit Gumbo for as much, but i can parse pretty damn good in comparison to some of you DRK/SAM wanabees.

Because Dual Wield averages out combined weapon delays and increasing the trait directly lowers base delay, this will affect your TP gained per hit, but of course will alow you to strike faster.

Haste has more benefits by affecting spell recast timers and is effective on all weapon types. The only thing to keep in mind for this is what it caps out on gear and magically.

Your avatar is nice :O

Why do people say it's easy to cap haste?

Looking at thf alone:

Wal-mart turban 5%
Raparee Harness 4%
Homam hands/legs/feet 9%
Swift Belt 4%
= 22%
Swap in Dusk +1 and velocious belt = 25%

That is the highest thf can possibly get (aside from using a ridiculously rare shield or situational gear like besieged/assault gear)

Dusk +1 and velocious/speed belt are NOT easy to get, nor is Homam.

Let's look at magic haste: According to wiki, this caps at 43.75% (how anyone can possibly confirm this is well beyond me)
rdm or whm haste = 15%
double march caps at 20% (40% with 2-hour)
So that's 35% magic haste without brd 2-hour, and that's ALL there is. The ONLY way to cap magic haste is with brd 2-hour AND haste, (I'm disincluding spy's drink since it's exlusive to salvage and besieged).

I'm going to also ignore ability haste since unless you're 75 drk it's still impossible to cap total haste unless you have hasso AND haste samba.

As much as I don't like to name call, anyone that says it's easy to cap haste is a *** retard. In fact, the only jobs that can even hit 25% haste in gear (in normal situations) aside from thf are MNK WHM DNC and BRD. Requiring Dusk +1 and speed/velocious belt to cap haste is a ridiculous thing to call easy. Brd 2-hour is the only way to cap magic haste. Only 75 DRK can cap JA haste, and is the only job that can cap total haste without BRD 2-hour.

So I repeat, anyone that says haste is easy to cap is a retard.

To the OP, haste is better than dual wield because dual wield lowers tp gain per hit and only works on melee attack speed, whereas haste will also work for spell recast (utsu for instance). So, stack on every piece of haste you can get your hands on, and if it's convenient to do so (ie. won't kill your accuracy), stack on dual wield gear everywhere you can't.

What does that have to do with getting invites?

@OP, yeah, everyone else said it pretty well. Haste > Dual Wield, but only barely. If you can get a piece with 3% Haste or a piece with 5% Dual Wield, it's better to go for the Dual Wield, unless you're casting.

which is BS cause my thief *** wrecks birds like no other but nooo i get no invites. friends always want my thief if they have bird camp.

I always find it funny to note that Mandau is the highest (single hit) DPS weapon in the game :D

thank you for putting some sense to the situation.

O.P. Dual Wield lowers your tp in the same amount it lowers your delay(or makes you attack faster if you want to see it that way) Haste is usually preferable.

But certain slots like body or earrings don't have pieces with haste(in before /drg wyvern earring ftw!), in short, get haste wherever you can and fill other spots with Dual-wield, that should give you good results.

Disclaimer: other factors are important when considering haste/dual-wield gear, specially accuracy, choices between close gear(like haubergeon and ninja chain mail) aren't easy in any way due the circumstances that favor one or the other.

Accuracy isn't such an issue with thf for a haste build, because homam is most of the best haste gear thf can get, which all has acc on it. But yes, you always have to be smart about your gear choices, which means there are going to be situations where you won't want full haste anyway etc. etc. (and as far as melee goes, isn't homam body better than raparee harness anyway?)

But yeh, OP's been answered ^^

Homam Body is better than Rapparee Harness, generally speaking. Rapparee Harness is better IF:

A. Accuracy is high with the HARNESS (88%+~ typically)
B. Haste values are crushingly high anyway (talking 2x SV March + Haste spell etc)
C. Mob is feint'd
D. Sushi is being eaten (on most mobs)

F. Angon'd

What happened to E?

might be wrong but im guessing dual wield would be calculated first

otherwise it wouldn't make sense, kinda like fast cast and haste, where haste comes first then fast cast is applied onto that value

since dual wield and effects tp gained per hit where as haste does not it makes sense to do that.

so with 200 delay weapon and 10% of both would maybe be (200x .9)x.9)

=162

but even if dual wield does lower delay more by being calculated first, haste is better because it helps u get 100tp faster still since not lowering tp/hit

and for the homam body vs haste harness thing, homam is better unless u have capped hit rate or rly close.

if you have 90% hit rate in xp pt put on o hat over turban and your parsed dmg will go up

best way to max dmg on a mob (for tp gain) is cap hit rate then go for haste after, and then attack after that

It doesn't really matter which one gets counted first out of Haste and Dual Wield (though delay reduction like Dual Wield is calculated first for TP gain purposes) except through very slight differences due to flooring, since

xy = yx.

Doesn't -really- matter which way around it goes.

What does Angon have to do with which body is better :O?

So Dual Wield ++ reduces TP gain per hit :o?

yes

The actual rate at which you stay TP on the whole stays roughly constant though, which is why delay reduction (like Dual Wield) is modelled like Haste but without the increase in WS frequency.